Belleayre Master Plan

[ChrisC]

Master Plan from Belleayre. (From Storm Skiing email)

Interesting westward expansion plus Highmont.

Now almost all the upper mountain lifts cross the mid-mountain road. What a redesign!

 

[jamesdeluxe]

From Storm Skiing email

That was a nice succinct overview of the ski area and what's been happening.

Belleayre Releases Masterplan Update: Lift 7 Line Confirmed, Will Eliminate Upper Cathedral Brook Trail

The New York State-owned ski area also shuffles trails on planned expansions

www.stormskiing.com

Harv posted the yearly skier-visit numbers below. The past season was 235,000, a big jump.

ORDA Skier Visits: Whiteface, Gore, Belleayre

NYSkiBlog's update of ORDA skier visits and revenue for NY's state-owned ski areas, Whiteface, Gore Mountain and Belleayre Ski Center.

nyskiblog.com

I ranted in my early April report that the gondola is beyond silly from a skiing perspective but everyone agrees that it's attracted a lot of people. I just hope that they connect Highmount while I'm still alive.

 

[EMSC]

Haven't seen said email. I assume there are lifts approved for both West Trails pod and Highmont pod? Not able to tell in the graphic above.

I would think any number you want should be reportable given it's a state entity (looking at non-reported revenue in recent years).

the gondola is beyond silly from a skiing perspective

Such a waste of state tax money IMO. Realistically the state shouldn't even be in the ski business, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Realistically the state shouldn't even be in the ski business, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

How is that ^^ different from the widely accepted and beloved format of city-, state- and/or county-operated golf courses across the entire country? You never hear private country clubs complaining about getting undercut by government-operated courses.

 

[ChrisC]

New Hampshire owns 2 areas that have taken different paths:

• Mount Sunapee. Leased out. Upgraded by Okemo. Now run by Vail.
• Cannon Mountain. Still run by the state - including the purchase of Mittersill. An $18M expenditure to upgrade the tram next year.

I think leasing a state ski area to a ski operator is a better decision.

 

[EMSC]

I think leasing a state ski area to a ski operator is a better decision.

Ditto.

Even fairly liberal NPR is strongly questioning the whole thing in NYS.
Billion dollar NYS boondoggle with ORDA

How is that ^^ different from the widely accepted and beloved format of city-, state- and/or county-operated golf courses across the entire country?

It's not, and overall not a big fan of those either. Large numbers of those seem to be bottom of the barrel golf places anyway. I'm OK with some level of city/state providing recreational opportunities, esp in places they simply don't/wouldn't exist, but not at a loss and not with different competitive rules - that basically always exist when the Gov't is involved vs private operators (perhaps in some cases excluding initial capital, but certainly not operating losses).

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Large numbers of those seem to be bottom of the barrel golf places anyway.

Are you a golfer? That's sometimes the case but not always and I can cite a few Front Range examples that allow you to play nice courses for less than a mortgage payment: Fossil Trace, City Park, and Evergreen. Back east, there are many.

I'm OK with some level of city/state providing recreational opportunities, esp in places they simply don't/wouldn't exist, but not at a loss and not with different competitive rules - that basically always exist when the Gov't is involved vs private operators (perhaps in some cases excluding initial capital, but certainly not operating losses).

As you can imagine, this has been an ongoing topic on @Harvey's forum for years and most people on that thread agree with you about the profligate spending, as do I. As noted in the NPR piece, one of the fascinating parts of the story is how gazillions of taxpayer revenues from downstate NY are directed to the rural North Country, whose denizens are virtually all "keep guberment out of our lives" types -- of course, unless it benefits them, then they're strangely silent. Similar to how it works on a federal level (blue states pay for the very existence of red states).

 

[ChrisC]

There are a few West Coast areas that were State/Federal government created: Bridger Bowl, Bogus Basin, and Timberline Lodge.....but are now Co-ops are independently owned.

Even fairly liberal NPR is strongly questioning the whole thing in NYS.
Billion dollar NYS boondoggle with ORDA

It looks like most of the spending is for restoring the old Olympic facilities. How are the same facilities in Salt Lake City funded for maintenance and improvements? I always thought we needed them for athlete training. It also brings up the perennial question about expenditures for the Olympic Games - especially Winter (since they make no money TV-wise).

Belleayre might be owed some investment by the State since it was neglected for years.

Gore Mountain has been managed quite well. It's a pretty good mountain.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Belleayre might be owed some investment by the State since it was neglected for years. Gore Mountain has been managed quite well.

Similar to Whiteface/Lake Placid, Gore has received a boatload of state expansion support over the years; however, some people on Harv's forum might argue that it's not being managed well operationally. Apologies if I'm reposting this link, but my FTO interview in 2010 with the guy leading advocacy efforts for Belleayre painted a stark picture of how virtually all of the state money (most of it collected from downstate taxpayers, the Catskills' ostensible target market) went to the ADKs.