jasoncapecod":38h31ace said:
Wife wants to go to Vermont over the Christmas break for a few days. She likes to stay slope side :roll: The prices for the Major resorts are in the stratosphere for this type of accommodation.. I noticed that Bolton Valley has some slope side lodging. Is there enough to do (ski) for 3/4 days. Also is anyone familiar with the slope side lodging... May be JSPIN can help out..
Thanks
It seems that Jason has already spoken to many of the trip alternatives that people brought up, so I’ll just talk about Bolton a bit since I spent a lot of time there last season. I really only know Bolton from a local’s perspective (10-20 years of visiting a few times a season, and now one season where it was my daily mountain). So, I can’t talk volumes about how it works as a destination resort, but I can provide some information to potential visitors. The second half of this response is more geared toward destination resort-style trips, so maybe head down there if that’s what you’re most interested in.
I’ve got an entire Bolton season under my belt at this point, so it seems like a good time to put together a little synopsis. I’ll talk a little about the resort’s terrain, lifts, snowfall etc. since most people haven’t been to Bolton very often (if at all) and might like to have a little better feel for the mountain.
First off, just read
Jim Bauman's First Tracks!! article on Bolton Valley, "Go Tele It On the Mountain", to get a really good overview of the resort. Jim worked at the mountain for a while, and knows a whole lot more about it than I do. That article is six years old now, so some things are dated (2001 was before the Vista Quad was added), but for the most part you’re going to get a good impression of the Bolton Valley experience. There are also a lot of details and pictures about the skiing at Bolton Valley (and a little on the other aspects of the resort like dining) in
my 2006-2007 season reports and beyond. There are about three dozen individual reports from Bolton Valley, and they’ve all been posted on this forum, but they are also organized on our web page.
I’ll add some of my own general observations below, and I’ll start by borrowing a quote that I heard from Kurt Ries (he owns a place in Bolton and spends a lot of time there, but I think his main home may be in the Burlington area) from a day that I skied with him this past season:
“Bolton’s trails will keep you happy for a day, but its backcountry will keep you happy for a lifetime.”
There’s probably a little exaggeration there on both ends of course, but it sums the area up pretty well. After skiing Bolton a lot this past season, and having skied most of the resorts in Northern Vermont fairly extensively, I’ve come to the following conclusion that many people would probably find surprising. In terms of in-bounds terrain “quality” and pitch, Bolton Valley is actually pretty comparable to the rest of the resorts in the area (Stowe, Sugarbush, Smugg’s, Jay Peak, etc.). But there’s a rub. Bolton just doesn’t match the others with regard to in-bounds quantity. I’m sure Bolton’s trail acreage is notably less than the others, but the more dramatic feel for me comes in terms of vertical. On a rough scale, you’re looking at about half the vertical you get at the other local mountains. While it is possible to ski the full vertical (the official number quoted on the website is 1,704 vertical feet) in one run, and it is actually a nice long run, most of the time you’re looking at chunks of 1,000 vertical feet or less (vs. the roughly 2,000 vertical feet you can often get at most of the bigger resorts). In terms of areas at Bolton with sustained steep pitches, there’s the top ~1/2 of Wilderness (~500 vertical feet), the upper ~2/3 of the main mountain (~650 vertical feet) and then most of Timberline (~1,000 vertical feet). The Timberline chunk has more vertical than the other two, but the overall pitch isn’t quite as steep. If the steep pitches on the other two lifts were assigned double black diamond ratings, Timberline would get a single black diamond rating. If you look at the map you’ll find that the single and double black ratings can be found on different pitches throughout the mountain, but my ratings above just describe the average pitch of the mountain areas. The pitch at the top of the Wilderness Lift is actually really steep, TOO steep in some respects, and I don’t think the lift line is even a real trail near the top because it is so steep. It would take a heck of a lot of snow and the appropriate wind (or lack of it) to fill that area in for really comfortable skiing. The meat of the steep in-bounds terrain at the resort is that top 2/3 of the Vista Lift, and there are a lot of steep runs (Preacher, Devil’s Playground, Spillway, Show Off, Hard Luck, Vermont 200, TNT, Schuss) that could go toe to toe with just about anything else in Northern Vermont in terms of pitch. Some of those trials are even glades/chutes, and as is typical in Northern Vermont, a lot of the terrain between trails is skiable, so there’s some really interesting stuff. It’s just that they’re all relatively short (~600 feet of vertical or so for the ones in the front of the list, and dropping down to ~200 feet of vertical by the time you reach Schuss) so you’re not going to get that same sustained thrill you get in a long steep run. Much of the Timberline terrain feels like it’s at that point of transition where it can be advanced intermediate if you groom it, or more solidly advanced if you don’t. In terms of cruising terrain, the bottom 1/3 of the main mountain is nice (~350 vertical feet), and Timberline is nice (~1,000 vertical feet), with Timberline being the steeper of the two and again falling in that area of difficulty that can vary depending on grooming. The intermediate terrain is just another example of reduced vertical and length compared to other local resorts. I’m not sure if having very long runs is as important to beginners, but there’s the same basic length thing going on there as well.
Aside from the overall size and length of the runs at the area, the other “possible” main detractor in the ski experience at Bolton might be the lifts. I put an emphasis on “possible”, because for some people it is actually a plus. All of Bolton’s lifts are fixed grip “low speed” lifts (3 doubles and 2 quads), so you’re only going up at standard speed, not detachable speed. For people that want a lot of vertical, this is a downside, but for those that want fewer people on the slopes and better quality snow, this is an upside (a la the Mad River Glen-style philosophy). Ideally I guess it would be nice to have a high-speed ride to the top AND nobody else around, but that’s a lot to ask for. One downside to the slow lift paradigm is that it can mean bigger lift queues (people are not on the trails, but they are queued up at the lifts instead). I’ve lived through this side of the coin in the past with 45 minute lift queues at the Mad River Glen single chair, and as fun and vibrant as the single chair lift queue is, that’s a lot of waiting. Fortunately, I haven’t seen that issue at Bolton. Perhaps the biggest surprise of the past season for me at Bolton has been the lack of crowds. Even after living in Montana for five years (which is supposedly known for having few skiers relative to most locations), and skiing throughout the country, I would put Bolton this past season among the least crowded areas I have ever skied. To put this into perspective, we’re talking about getting multiple powder day runs on a black diamond trail before anyone else even decides to ski it. And, we’re not talking about a weekday, or even a Sunday here, but a powder Saturday. I’m not actually sure I’ve ever experienced that sort of phenomenon anywhere without some hiking or substantial traversing. I can’t say how often Saturdays are like that, especially on holidays or when the resort doesn’t have all its terrain open, but that fact that it happens at all is pretty neat. Actually, you’re not supposed to talk about this stuff because when you tell people about it they go there and ruin the solitude and the ability to get fresh tracks all day. Fortunately, we’re talking about Bolton Valley here, so few and far between are the skiers that are going to pass up Stowe, Mad River Glen or Sugarbush to ski at Bolton. However for those few people that don’t mind standard speed lifts and less vertical, I’m sure Bolton would be happy to have their business. I think Jim’s article did a great job of describing Bolton’s special attributes in this regard, and my past season's experiences suggest that his review is still right on the money.
So Bolton’s reduced vertical and (for some people) standard speed lifts might be its downsides, but it has got some enormous upsides for certain folks. Snowfall is easily one of Bolton’s assets. If you follow the snowfall north from Killington up to Jay Peak, Bolton’s reported annual snowfall of 300 inches falls right in line with what you’d expect based on its location. Part of the upside that stems from the smaller vertical at Bolton is that fact that its main base is at a relatively high elevation of over 2,000 feet. That can be a big plus when temperatures are marginal during a storm. Then of course there’s Bolton’s backcountry, and its Nordic trail network, which is simply ridiculous in scale and also blessed with relatively high elevation. They indicate that they have 100 km of trails, which is already a decent number if you’re familiar with Nordic ski trail networks, but that must include just the most “official” trails because there are trails just about everywhere between the ones for snowmobiles, snowshoes, Telemarkers etc. I’ve already mentioned the typical lack of crowds at Bolton as a plus, but that’s a big selling point for me so I’ll mention it again.
As far as Bolton goes for a destination resort, here are some of my impressions. There are a lot of potential places to stay up there, such as the inns/hotels, condominiums, and single family homes, and basically they are all within walking distance to the lifts or right on the slopes. The feeling I have for most of the structures (from the exterior) is that they are a little antiquated, but I’m not sure how they are on the inside, perhaps there has been a lot of remodeling. There is a recreation center in the village as well, with an indoor pool, indoor tennis courts, a game room, and all that stuff. I guess it feels a little antiquated as well in places, and probably just needs a remodeling. Eventually I’m sure I’ll check out the inside of some of the hotel rooms or condos to see what the interior feel is like. I’m not sure how old Bolton’s village is, but I think it was built long before many of the other resorts in the area caught on to the idea of having a village right at the base of the mountain. So, the village just doesn’t have that visual “pop” that newer places have, but in that same regard it has its own charm. It does seem pretty functional though; there are a few restaurants at various levels of cost, as well as a convenience store and deli. We just bought sandwiches from the Bolton Valley Deli & Grocery in the village on Sunday (first time buying from there); the portions were great and everyone really liked them. One nice thing is that the village is way up there in terms of elevation, so you can “usually” expect a decent snowpack and a “wintry” feel if that is what you want in your resort village. Personally, I love the snow and winter weather, so that’s a selling point for me, but some people might prefer a lower-elevation setting with less snow/milder weather.
As far as keeping skiers happy on a destination trip, I think Bolton would appeal to some unique groups, but I don’t think it’s going to beat any of the bigger resorts for off-hill activities except perhaps more outdoor stuff on snow. If you’ve got a group of advanced skiers looking for lots of steep in-bounds terrain, they’re probably only going to be happy for about a day at Bolton – sort of in line with Kurt’s quote I used above. A family that has more beginner and intermediate skiers would probably be happier for a bit longer, depending on how much and what they like to ski. A family that likes to do stuff like XC skiing, snowshoeing, winter hiking, snowmobiling, and all that other stuff would have no problem spending 3-4 days at Bolton. You’re up above 2000 feet in Vermont in the winter, and it’s pretty rare to have absolutely NO snow to do things like snowshoeing etc. But even in that worst case scenario with little to no snow, you can hike, go to the pool, use the recreation area etc. However, if you don’t want to do some sort of alternative outdoor stuff, and you want more culture and fancy dining, then Bolton wouldn’t be the place to go. I think that Bolton could be a great place, even an excellent week-long destination place, for a group that wants to ski lots of New England-style backcountry. That would be a unique group that would be an excellent fit for an extended Bolton stay, although I would still recommend February or March for the best options, not December.
My sister in law’s family came up this winter, spent a day at Bolton, had an absolute blast, and wants to go again. For reference, I’d say they are a group of intermediate/advanced intermediate skiers. They’ve been a lot of places in New England (often the more family oriented/economical ones) and usually take one 2-3 day ski trip a year, but I was surprised that Bolton rated so highly with them. I didn’t get to talk to my sister in law a lot about why they liked Bolton at the time, so I gave her a call and here’s what she said about why they liked Bolton Valley so much:
1) Price – I actually told them that they should go to Stowe (unequivocally) when they asked what mountain to go to for one day of skiing, but they ended up going to Bolton because of the price – it cost them substantially less (half?) compared to what it was going to cost them at Stowe.
2) Lack of crowds – They said that you could ski right back down and get on the lift at Bolton without a queue because there weren’t that many people on the mountain. They actually skied on a midweek day, Tuesday, February 20th, 2007, so I think they may have missed whatever Sat/Sun/Mon President’s Day crowds were there. However, Tuesday was still winter break for the Massachusetts (where they are from) schools. My sister in law sort of laughed when she mentioned the Wilderness Lift (once she described where it was and I told her the name) because she said there was NOBODY over there. That didn’t surprise me.
3) Conditions – They said the trail conditions were very good, and there wasn’t any ice. Looking back at my weather data, it appears as if the most recent storm we’d had of any significance prior to their trip was the Valentine’s Day blizzard, so they were almost a week after that. Temperatures had stayed cold so I guess one wouldn’t expect much ice. Now since they are from southern New England and ski at places around there as well, I’m not exactly sure if their scale of good conditions is the same as mine, but their conditions sounded good even after a week without a substantial storm. My next day of Bolton skiing was two days later (Feb 22) when I went night skiing with Ty, and I recall that the trails with manmade snow seemed icy and firm to me, and it seemed to be because of wind blowing the snow off the mountain, but I’m not sure if that had happened yet when there were there, and that is the closest comparison I have to what they skied.
4) They liked the blue and black trails. Again she pointed out that they weren’t icy (to them at least) and she liked the way that there were more black trails than just the really steep moguled ones.
5) Trail layout – they liked the way that some of them would take blue trails, and some would take black, and they always seemed to come back together so the family could meet.
6) Size of the resort – this was an interesting observation that I probably wouldn’t have made simply due to my frame of reference and where I ski. My sister in law said they really liked the size of Bolton – they find that at the bigger ski areas, all the black diamond trials are very steep and moguled, which is why they enjoy the smaller resorts. However, the usual crowds at the smaller resorts they visit make it feel like you are hardly ever skiing because as soon as you do a short run you are back in the lift queue waiting again. They said that Bolton was a happy medium because its size is fairly modest and they have family-friendly trials, but there were no lift queues so they felt like they were skiing the whole time.
7) The base lodge – this surprised me because Bolton’s Lodge is sort of older, but I do think it is neat the way it is integrated into the complex of village buildings (and you can get to the hotel without going outside) and they just really liked it.
Now my sister in law’s family didn’t STAY at the resort, and only skied one day, so take their observations for what they are worth, but they have a perspective that is totally different than mine in terms of ski experiences, so hopefully it will be useful for some people. The other references I’d offer would be people that I’ve met at Bolton on the ski lifts who love the place and come up for a week with big groups of friends every year. Something keeps them coming back.
Now finally, I’ll echo the responses of others and say that unfortunately the Christmas holiday season is a really tough time to go skiing, both in terms of potential conditions and potential crowds. Personally, I love to ski during the holiday season because almost everyone has time off so you can get together with your family and friends to ski, the resorts are running their services at absolutely full tilt so everything and anything that they have to offer in terms of food, fun, and services is available, and the holiday atmosphere is simply awesome because even people who don’t seem to like winter for some reason tend to mind it a little less or even appreciate it during the holidays. The “winter” atmosphere is just really cool at that time of year. Unfortunately, the times when the best skiing coincides with that week of the year are apparently too few. Interestingly, last season’s holiday period, which everyone says was a horrible bust for skiing around here (and it probably was for the resorts financially), produced two of my favorite days of the season,
December 30th and
December 31st. The first was a great powder day with the family when the resort was opening natural snow trails all over the place, and the next day was a solo backcountry outing to catch the “day after” freshies. I can think of holiday periods where I didn’t have one day of skiing that was as good as those, so how bad the skiing was over the holiday is a matter of perspective.
Personally, if I was to plan a destination “ski” trip during Christmas at this stage in my “ski career”, I would only really make skiing a big part of the trip if the natural snow and powder were plentiful, and natural snow terrain was open or in the process of opening. People’s attitude toward ski trips is going to be highly individual, based on how much they ski, what they want to ski, etc., but the fact that Tony doesn’t usually shoot for planning trips at that time of year says a lot about the scene. At that time of year I’d stay in the backcountry the whole time if possible to avoid the crowds unless there was a really good powder day – like the December 30th day above - I wouldn’t have missed that one for the world. If only minimal groomed terrain or just snowmaking terrain was open, I would probably ski just one morning (or maybe two depending on the length of the trip and how much tickets cost). I’d get out as early as possible, maybe skin for a run before the lifts open, and then follow that up with a couple of hours of carving before most of the holiday traffic really got going. Then I’d spend the rest of the day relaxing, enjoying the holiday atmosphere at the less crazy parts of the resort, maybe snowshoeing, sledding, or going for some XC skiing. If I had to go on a ski trip during the holiday season now, regardless of what part of the country I was in, I’d honestly go with the intention of NOT skiing much unless the skiing was good. Things could be a little different if lift tickets were already included in a package or something, but even then I’d be asking myself “Is it worth the cost of wasting an included ticket to not ski among the excessive crowds?”
Obviously this is just my perspective, but it is a way to approach a ski trip if you have to commit to one ahead of time. Go with the intention of making it a trip at a resort, bring your skis, and if the conditions and crowds are to your liking, ski. Otherwise, just enjoy other activities that might be better suited to the conditions and say nuts to the skiing all together. I’ve been on enough destination ski trips now (most have been in the western U.S. actually) and skied day after day of lackluster hard pack conditions where you feel like you’re just going through the motions in getting out on the hill because you’re on a ski trip and you’re supposed to be skiing – that I’m not all that inspired to do them as often. When I was younger I can recall feeling like I needed to ski every day of the ski trip to get the most out of it. My first trip to Utah was back in January of 1996, in which we had eight days of mostly lackluster hard pack conditions. My friends decided to take a couple days off from skiing and visit Antelope Island and Arches National Park, which sort of felt like a travesty to me back then since we were skipping out on skiing in Utah. Sometime between then and February 2002 however, when we were on another trip with bland conditions (this time at Jackson Hole), something changed. We took a day off from skiing and simply watched the Super Bowl at the condo, and it was a heck of a lot more fun than paying 70 bucks to stand in line for the tram and ski more crusty or hard packed snow. Anyway, I’m probably just jaded, or spoiled, or something at this point after living with good local skiing in Vermont and Montana for so long, but that’s my current perspective on destination ski trips, so I figured I’d at least throw it out there as something to think about. Depending on the location, it may just be possible to take a trip to a ski resort where the skiing is peripheral or optional. As an avid (although perhaps not “die hard” skier now that I really think about it), it seems pretty strange to me that such a thought is even coming out of my head, but I guess it is. It sure could be a way to remove the stress that comes along with planning destination ski trips and worrying about what Mother Nature's latest whim will be with regard to the slopes.
J.Spin
