Driving to ski East vs. flying to ski West

(Note: Topic split from earlier topic, Get ready for a Gore/North Creek interconnect. - Admin)

I've commented on Harvey's situation before. With a family, particularly with young children, the tie-yourself-to-one-hill strategy has merit in terms of finances, logistics and convenience. I didn't do it that way, preferred quality to quantity (admin must be amused to see me on this side of a discussion), averaging only 23.2 days over 12 "family years," but those consisted of 5.3 local daytrip, 6.3 Mammoth, 2.3 Tahoe and 9.3 out of state. The Mammoth and Tahoe numbers took a hit vs. the years before family.

Without kids the long drives are usually more tolerable, and the air trips more financially feasible. In my case that meant numerous 5+ hour drive weekend trips to Mammoth and at least one 8 hour drive trip to Tahoe each season. In rfarren's case the there is a gradual increase in quality by increasing the drive time to reach Vermont vs. a dramatic increase by getting on a plane. So I would make the latter top priority, then try to cherry pick however many eastern weekends would fit in the leftover budget of time and $ at whatever drive distance is tolerable.

Tony Crocker":15fno8ul said:

In rfarren's case the there is a gradual increase in quality by increasing the drive time to reach Vermont vs. a dramatic increase by getting on a plane.

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It's not so gradual with what you are going to get in NVT with being flexible and easier to time without a plane ride

It's not so gradual with what you are going to get in NVT with being flexible and easier to time without a plane ride

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The big increase in quality comes with the powder days we read about regularly from JSpin, powderfreak, etc. How long will it take to drive to NVT from NYC with the weather on days like that? It's not realistic IMHO to think someone could leave NYC the night before and be ready for opening bell at Jay/Stowe etc. after a fresh dump. So now you're talking about burning an extra day just to get up there. This is not a viable plan for someone like rfarren who is largely constrained to weekends/holidays.

NVT is a very good short notice powder destination for Montreal metro, difficult but possible for Bostonians with a lot of stamina, but for New Yorkers, too tough most of the time.

Another option that I've often mentioned is combing the cheapskate weekend fares that the airlines publish every Weds morning from any of the NYC airports. Five years ago, they used to occasionally offer the Newark-SLC route for $149 r/t during winter, but I haven't seen it much lately. Denver pops up more frequently. You can also get a $99 r/t to Burlington or Quebec City. Depart on the 7 am flight Saturday morning, rent a car there, and return Tuesday night... that's 3.5 days of skiing.

jamesdeluxe":2dkg5teb said:

Another option that I've often mentioned is combing the cheapskate weekend fares that the airlines publish every Weds morning from any of the NYC airports. Five years ago, they used to occasionally offer the Newark-SLC route for $149 r/t during winter, but I haven't seen it much lately. Denver pops up more frequently. You can also get a $99 r/t to Burlington or Quebec City.

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And unlike Denver, both SLC and Burlington allow skiing on both arrival and departure day.

Marc_C":11uaheja said:

And unlike Denver, both SLC and Burlington allow skiing on both arrival and departure day.

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True, although I guess you could run up to Loveland for a few afternoon hours or continue on to Keystone for night skiing (if that doesn't offend your sensibilities) on the arrival day and ski Loveland on the way back to DIA. I've never done it, but I know people who have.

That said, going straight from sea level to the top of Loveland might not be a great idea for altitude-sensitive people.

jamesdeluxe":3nghidsn said:

Marc_C":3nghidsn said:

And unlike Denver, both SLC and Burlington allow skiing on both arrival and departure day.

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True, although I guess you could run up to Loveland for a few afternoon hours or continue on to Keystone for night skiing (if that doesn't offend your sensibilities) on the arrival day and ski Loveland on the way back to DIA. I've never done it, but I know people who have.

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I've done it on my last day, skied Loveland until 2pm and drove back to Denver for my flight around 5-6ish, no big deal. Could have done it on the 1st day also, if it wasn't for the first World Series game in Colorado on that same day. 45 minutes wait for a car rental. I drove past Loveland at noon, but decided check out the towns/villages of Vail and ... Aspen.

Regardless, flying for a weekend out West versus driving to somewhere is how more of a hastle that it's worth imo. Tony always speaks about flight time versus drive. What you need to look at is...drive to airport, wait-in line at check-in, sometimes they need to check your ski bag, wait-in at security, wait to get on the plane. Then you fly, delays sometimes happen...once at destination, need to wait for your luggage and equipment...sometimes they might get lost. Okay, car rental now. :roll:

Patrick":38j89kb0 said:

I've done it on my last day, skied Loveland until 2pm and drove back to Denver for my flight around 5-6ish, no big deal.

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Clearly not on a Sunday.

Patrick":1q1y6vzu said:

Regardless, flying for a weekend out West versus driving to somewhere is how more of a hastle that it's worth imo. Tony always speaks about flight time versus drive. What you need to look at is...drive to airport, wait-in line at check-in, sometimes they need to check your ski bag, wait-in at security, wait to get on the plane. Then you fly, delays sometimes happen...once at destination, need to wait for your luggage and equipment...sometimes they might get lost. Okay, car rental now. :roll:

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No one will argue that it's easier to throw your stuff in a car vs. the various indignities of flying, but the fact that I can catch a 7 am flight and be on the lifts at Solitude or wherever by 11:15 is pretty compelling. Or do the Quick-Start thing and ski free at one of the Park City mountains.

But for financial and logistical reasons, it's not something that can be pulled off more than two, maybe three times a year.

OK, we're officially off-topic.

jamesdeluxe":3tap5gem said:

No one will argue that it's easier to throw your stuff in a car vs. the various indignities of flying.

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No, but someone will say that it's better to hop on a plane and fly west than stay east and drive (regardless of the amount of days).

jamesdeluxe":3tap5gem said:

OK, we're officially off-topic.

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Don't worry about someone will probably take care of that. :mrgreen:

Admin":1sppe8eq said:

Patrick":1sppe8eq said:

I've done it on my last day, skied Loveland until 2pm and drove back to Denver for my flight around 5-6ish, no big deal.

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Clearly not on a Sunday.

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The first thing I noticed about Colorado skiing is it similarities with Quebec skiing. The concentration of ski areas on a interstate-autoroute corridor next to the proximity to a big metro area (Denver and Montreal). Traffic issues are probably very similar also. Late Sunday afternoon/evening gridlock.

Patrick":b73cq1ew said:

Traffic issues are probably very similar also. Late Sunday afternoon/evening gridlock.

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I've sat in non-stop bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go from Georgetown all the way to Evergreen for no other reason than congestion.

Admin":28nj9nzn said:

Patrick":28nj9nzn said:

Traffic issues are probably very similar also. Late Sunday afternoon/evening gridlock.

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I've sat in non-stop bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go from Georgetown all the way to Evergreen for no other reason than congestion.

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When I was a kid in the mid 70s, prior to the Laurentians Autoroute reaching St.Sauveur, I remember bumper-to-bumper traffic on the one lane highway through all the towns (regardless of weather or season) for 50 miles between St-Jovite (where Tremblant is) and St-Jerôme on ourn way to Montreal. Once the autouroute got expanded north in the 70-80, the traffic calm only lasted for a short time. The traffic would back up near Ste-Adèle to St-Jerôme (20 miles) were the autoroute became 3 lanes, however that was in the late 80s, situation is probably much worst now.

For that reason, I remember us leaving our cottage in the Laurentians for Montreal really early Monday morning where my mom would drop me off at school and head to work.

I've usually skied the final day before flying out of DIA. But they were midweek days except for 2 at A-Basin, both last weekend of April. Patrick's trip was in October, so no traffic issue there either. I've read enough not to try this on a mid-season Sunday. But I've also read enough that Front Range Colorado is not a likely mid-season destination for me anyway.

Why are the easterners flying west at 7AM vs. ~6PM the night before? Maybe one extra night lodging cost (cheap if in SLC or west side of Denver) but a full day of skiing first day and a night's sleep at intermediate altitude first.

No, but someone will say that it's better to hop on a plane and fly west than stay east and drive (regardless of the amount of days).

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I think it depends upon location within the East. The stories in the other thread convince me that for residents of NYC and MASH, yes it's better for advanced skiers to put the majority of time and $ to western trips. Regardless of location, if your schedule is inflexible that would also call for at least one week of destination trip west (or Alps) IMHO.

Patrick's location in Ottawa probably falls into the gray area like Boston. He is also willing to endure far more than most in terms of unpleasant driving. Thus it surprises me that he's not in NVT more often. And he does fly away from the East for destination skiing. But it's in the Southern Hemisphere for his streak rather than the cheaper and higher quality skiing he could get in interior BC or France.

Tony Crocker":ol50kels said:

Why are the easterners flying west at 7AM vs. ~6PM the night before? Maybe one extra night lodging cost (cheap if in SLC or west side of Denver) but a full day of skiing first day and a night's sleep at intermediate altitude first.

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Almost without exception, I leave on Saturdays, whether it's for a week-long trip or a long weekend. Leaving at 6 pm the day before means that you have to sacrifice part or most of the work day packing, driving to the airport, and since it's peak travel time for airlines, your flight will likely be delayed as all the other delays throughout the system will cascade through to rush hour. Taking the first plane in the morning almost guarantees an on-time departure.

Leaving in the morning means that if I'm flying to SLC, big deal, I miss the first two hours. If I'm flying to JH, I get there by noon and can be at Snow King by 1 pm for some warmup turns. If it's somewhere like New Mexico or Denver, where you generally don't get started on the arrival day, Saturday will have the biggest crowds and traffic, so it's not such a loss to give up that day of skiing.

Tony Crocker":2aptdgys said:

I've read enough not to try this on a mid-season Sunday.

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Regardless of quality, I wouldn't recommend doing this from Tremblant and skiing on the day of flight departure from Montreal if the flight is in early evening.

Tony Crocker":2aptdgys said:

Patrick's location in Ottawa probably falls into the gray area like Boston. He is also willing to endure far more than most in terms of unpleasant driving. Thus it surprises me that he's not in NVT more often.

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Skiing is 15 minutes from downtown, 15 minutes for 600ft vert.

9 days in NVT this year, 1 day at WF, 1day in ME, 6 days in the Charlevoix/Gaspe + 4 days in the Laurentians, regardless of being injured and only skiing 2 hours in December and skiing in pain in January.

Tony Crocker":2aptdgys said:

And he does fly away from the East for destination skiing. But it's in the Southern Hemisphere for his streak rather than the cheaper and higher quality skiing he could get in interior BC or France.

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Cheaper and higher quality?

There are so many vacations days that I can take at a time. Plus I make out West or the Alps every two years on average since I moved to Ottawa in 1995. :roll: This year's injury and other issues conspired against me.

I'm aware of Patrick's DL time this season. Comments are based upon Patrick's general pattern since the streak began 44 months ago.

Almost without exception, I leave on Saturdays, whether it's for a week-long trip or a long weekend.

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For the one week trip that may make some sense. For the long weekend, flying Thursday night and taking Friday off is a good idea. For a 3 or 4 day trip, giving up half a ski day and a first night of sleeping at 5,000+ feet doesn't seem worth it.

Tony Crocker":1rf6qsim said:

For the long weekend, flying Thursday night and taking Friday off is a good idea. For a 3 or 4 day trip, giving up half a ski day and a first night of sleeping at 5,000+ feet doesn't seem worth it.

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I'm completely lost here. You're suggesting I fly to a ski resort, sleep there, and then not ski the next day?

The reason many of us take morning flights to Utah has nothing to do with cost. It's burning a half work day. Airports invariably require dealing with evening rush hour traffic to get there. You need to allocate a minimum of an hour of extra slack time to get there. To catch a 6:00 flight, I have to bail out of work at 3:00. That just ain't too popular with The Man. As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that 6pm flight often actually goes out at 9pm due to the cascading flight delays that build up during the day. Particularly on a Friday, it just isn't worth it.

Geoff":1vlyu5qb said:

Tony Crocker":1vlyu5qb said:

For the long weekend, flying Thursday night and taking Friday off is a good idea. For a 3 or 4 day trip, giving up half a ski day and a first night of sleeping at 5,000+ feet doesn't seem worth it.

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I'm completely lost here. You're suggesting I fly to a ski resort, sleep there, and then not ski the next day?

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As I understand, he's referring to taking Friday off from work, as opposed to leaving Saturday morning.

Admin":38hyjj9i said:

As I understand, he's referring to taking Friday off from work, as opposed to leaving Saturday morning.

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Whatever he's saying, it's wrong... for the reasons I mentioned a page earlier. His armchair quarterbacking about skiing on the East Coast is about as relevant to us as when he tells you which aspects you should have been skiing at Alta/Snowbird.

Tony does a great job of getting all the facts rounded up, but then comes up with conclusions that elude me.