N. Mex. & So. Col. Dec/Jan?

Hello y'all, glad to be back after a few (bunch) of years mia. Hope everyone is ok! And a special Hola to Tony!

Planning a father/son (14 y/o) trip to NMex and SCol, here is "initial" gameplan, looking for Least Crowds and LSG (long steep groomers):
12/19: Santa Fe
12/20: Wolf Creek
12/21-26 Crested Butte, one day Monarch
12/27-30: Purgatory
12/31-1/7: Telluride
1/8: Wolf again
1/9-11: Taos

What you think? Gracias!

Welcome back, but what happened to your previous account registration?

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The whole trip is misguided given both your preferences and time of year. Wolf Creek is the only one of these places with a good early season snow record. If you want to do this trip, do it for your spring break, not in December/January. All of these places are very high altitude, mostly north-facing, so well suited to spring break.

With regards to the specific areas:
Wolf Creek: Best snow, mostly intermediate but short runs under 1,000 vertical
Santa Fe: Decent balance of terrain, but not a huge area, 1,300 vertical
Monarch: In the same class overall as Wolf Creek and Santa Fe for terrain and vertical.
Purgatory: Mostly intermediate, bigger than Santa Fe or Wolf Creek, about 2,000 vertical, steep sections are short.
Telluride: The area you will like best IMHO. Historically it's been stratified for terrain, but expansions and grooming have greatly improved its intermediate appeal. When they groom Bushwacker or Plunge, those are ideal GPaul runs of 2,000 vertical.
Crested Butte: Famed mainly for its extreme terrain (half the acreage) which is not likely open until mid-January or later. The Muellers may tout the quality of the grooming but the variety of intermediate runs is low relative to most Colorado areas.
Taos: Similarly 50+% expert weighted like Crested Butte and similarly likely not much of that terrain open before mid-January. I like the fall lines of Taos' groomers on Chairs 7&8 better than Crested Butte's. Taos also has the famous ski school that might help expand your horizons beyond the groomers.

Couldn't find my previous id's, sorry.

Tony, I know what you're saying is 100%, we'll see how it all works out. Thanks again, best.

I should warn that Crested Butte, Taos, Telluride and Purgatory all close first weekend of April due to remote location, despite often having their max snowpacks and excellent conditions at that time. IIRC your spring break is tied to Easter Week, so 2013 is a year to consider due to Easter being March 30.

gpaul,

If you must ski Colo during the holiday period at least you are picking resorts that will be less crowded than Vail, Breck, Copper, etc... But they will still be very busy over the holidays (relative to each resorts 'busy' level). Also as Tony points out most of them are iffy at that time of year for open terrain (Wolf Creek excepted).

I have to wonder why you are not looking at highly reliable early season resorts... Say start at Steamboat pre-holidays before it gets crazy, then move on to Alta & Grand Targhee? Some of the best early season places around... You could probably even include Wolf Creek on that itinerary too.

Just my 2c

Tks emsc, took your advice, changed my flight and now arriving at Denver Intl. Starting at Loveland/ABasin, then Winter Park, Steamboat. Then move on to where the snow is good: Taos, Crested Butte and Telluride, finally back up to Aspen4.

Great 2cents you offered! In our currency nearly a buck.

Gpaulski":ux44fnaw said:

took your advice

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Not much of it. Winter Park and Steamboat are the only places on that list with good early season snow records. A-Basin and Loveland get a fair amount of snow but the wind blows most of it off in exposed locations so they are often no more than half open during your timeframe. The only good thing about this plan is that you have a car and it's an extended trip so you have potential flexibility. If I were you I would not lock in lodging other than Winter Park and Steamboat. Wait until you know where the snow is before committing further lodging $. I'm not taking any wagers that this advice will be heeded.

If I were to pick the worst destinations in western North America for average snow coverage/open terrain in December/January, Crested Butte and Taos would top the list.

It's one thing for people to make uninformed decisions, but another to ask the questions, get the answers and make the potential dumb call anyway. I would normally be more polite, but we've been down this road with the same poster on previous trips (Christmas 2005-06 at Tahoe).

Tony, I sincerely appreciate your heretofore sound insights and suggestions, and look forward to seeing your accustomed NICE persona within this forum.

Best.

Tony Crocker":2ltelu0f said:

we've been down this road with the same poster on previous trips (Christmas 2006-07 at Tahoe).

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And let's not forget the much-discussed, but never taken spring 2007 trip to Quebec. :wink:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose -- Gpaul asks for advice ("Hola!") and ignores it, while Tony gets frustrated with people who don't subscribe to his probability-based suggestions.

Who's next in line to Bash Gpaul???? No worries, I deserve it, mea culpa.

Jamesdeluxe, your french is, unfortunately, á propos.

I will heed the advice, starting with WPark and Steamboat. Dec. 26-Jan.2, traditionally, which is less crowded: Tride, CButte, or Snowmass? I'm leaning towards ASPEN4 Jan.2-8, basically 'cause it's cheaper at that time.

Gracias!

Aspen and Telluride can be OK. Only the serious steeps are that likely not to be open. Both comfortably handle the traffic they get. Crested Butte is a very small mountain at that time of year, really not worth considering unless it's an exceptional December like in 2007-08.

gpaulski":2kyq2mty said:

Who's next in line to Bash Gpaul????

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I read/skimmed that thread from 2007 james linked, the other thread referenced, then I look at this thread.
Gpaulski, I don't think it's a matter of bashing you specifically, but rather that you seem to not want to take the advice you ask for. A lot of experienced people, with specific ski experience in the areas you ask about, spend a lot of time explaining why your ideas should be reconsidered then spend significant effort providing alternatives. You really think this is bashing? People are trying to help you have a successful, enjoyable ski trip within your stated parameters. When you then turn around and say "This is what I'm doing" and it runs contrary to all the heartfelt advice, it's kind of like throwing yellow slush in their collective faces.

If you ask for advice, please have a thick enough skin to deal with the idea of people explaining why the itinerary you suggest is less than optimal. If you're going to spit in everyone's face and just do what you planned to do anyway, why ask for advice in the first place?

Never have spit in anyone's face, ever. But, okay, spanking accepted. THANKS ALL FOR ADVICE, hope to be able to reciprocate.

Leaving Crested Butte on hold, looking ate DEALS for Winter Park, Aspen Telluride, and Snowmass. Any suggestions :-({|= :dead horse: ](*,) . Gracias.

Two lessons I learned from my experience last year were not to lock in plans for a specific resort until the snow's on the ground; and if you're thinking Colorado, keep Wolf Creek on your short list. They have the most snow in Colorado, and with the drought in the rest of the state, that advantage was really amplified last year. We had season passes and pre-paid housing at Vail the first week of January :-( , but Tony and EMSC convinced us (reluctantly) to re-route to Wolf Creek instead, and we were glad we did. The financial pain was somewhat mitigated by the fact that both lift tix and housing for WC are cheap, relative to the big resorts in Colorado. (Highly recommend the Wolf Creek Ski Lodge -- not Ski Ranch -- in South Fork. I've got TRs for the hotel and WC ski area on TripAdvisor). We enjoyed it so much that we later ended up changing our spring trip from Vail to (mostly) WC as well. I'm sure Tony's right that there are better places for long black groomers. WC's fortes are more bump runs and trees, and they've got lots of nice blues (and blacks) in both of those categories, which isn't all that common. So if the lack of black groomers isn't a show-stopper for you, you might consider trying to stay flexible (you've got a car, after all) and consider WC. But, hey, don't worry -- I won't get mad if you ignore the advice :wink:

TKS johnash, have actually put WC in the plan, at least 2 days, more if need be. If you liked it compared to Vail, must be something! Best.

gpaulski":33mrbtt3 said:

If you liked it compared to Vail, must be something!

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If you read anything online during 2011-12 about Colorado snow conditions you would understand the context of that comment.

Certainly in a normal year -- and if your budget constraint isn't very binding-- WC wouldn't be much competition for Vail! It's only a fraction of the size. (But it's also only a fraction of the price.) Great option, though, to keep in your pocket for seasons like last year.

I've also had good luck holiday skiing at beaver creek, which has good long groomers. I think there snow is somewhat underrated and much less crowded then vail and summit. I agree with winter park and steamboat.