Sunshine, AB - 03/27/07

I was not impressed with Sunshine on my first visit. I found it to be wind-blown/icy, possessing too many odd flat spots and not really challenging. (Never got to do Delirium Dive since I did not bring an avalanche beacon).

This was not the case for my last visit. Armed with proper gear, we spent must of the day doing laps in the off-piste terrain - Delirium Dive, Wild West, etc. This terrain compares quite favorably with the steeps of Kicking Horse and Lake Louise (and anywhere else frankly). Combined with great snow and sun - excellent experience. (Note: the Silver City area had slid down to rock during patrol work. It's unlikely this area will ever be open to often.)



Sunshine map with off-piste areas highlighted.




Delirium Dive.


After the initial drop in, it opens up exposing some untracked lines in places.












Wild West.
This area had some really tight couloirs.




Wheeler's
Relatively open steeps







Peyto's
Not friendly. The crux of couloir was about 170-cm or so.
My twin tip 185 Pocket Rockets did not fit.
I knew when my tele friend asked about my ski length that things were going be unpleasant.
Combined with some harder snow - not fun. Body armor would have been nice to straight line it.







Luxton's
A lot more enjoyable. Steep, tight but plenty of room for turns.







WaySide/FarSide areas.
Hike-to Area above Goats Eye lift.


At the top of the boot pack. Liked the background before I went over this lip.





The Shoulder.
Under the TeePee Town lift.
Another good expert area at Sunshine.


Scenery

Thanks for the report and Beta for Wild West Chris.

I agree before the expansion on Goat Eye (plus Delirium Dive), Sunshine lack something compare to it's neighbour down the road. There are a few fun steep and challenging spots , but they were fairly limited for a area the size of Sunshine. It was still fun, especially for the intermediate skiers, but the well traveled expert looking for steeps might have been bored on a trip.

I've seen DD (although I also didn't have a beacon and didn't go), but I've seen only one or two pictures of Wild West, not a full report on them. Peyto's definitely looks challenging to say the least. The crux of the couloir at 170cm you say??? For how long? Great pics of the place.

Thanks again Chris...is there anymore great delated reports like this one in the pipe???

I had not heard about Wild West before. I usually don't miss info like this! Was this the first year? Are beacons required there as on Delirium Dive? Is it likely to be open only during big snow years?

Tony Crocker":2v2bt3sv said:

I had not heard about Wild West before. I usually don't miss info like this! Was this the first year? Are beacons required there as on Delirium Dive? Is it likely to be open only during big snow years?

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Sunshine has been somewhat quietly adding to their "Freeride Terrain" over the past few years. Or at least the noise has not gotten south of the border.

From website http://www.skibanff.com/the_mountain/ex ... errain.php
Delirium Dive was reopened to the public in 1998, followed by the Wild West in 2003 and both areas have been enjoyed by many expert skiers and riders. Silver City, previously unused is extreme and for experts only. Guests who choose to enter these areas will need to be equipped with an avalanche beacon, shovel and travel with a similarly equipped partner.

Thought I would just summarize my experiences in the areas.

Delirium Dive.


It has a technical entry through a significant cliff band with openings requiring a drop of 5'. This is easily avoided if you take the stairs down. (Yes they built stairs to the right of the cliff band). Allows almost anyone to get established in the bowl which is fairly wide and declines in steepness as you descend (Almost any high intermediate/low expert could ski down the middle with a stair entry.)

If you stay to skiers far right and left - things are more interesting. Snow quality improves as skiers can spread out. A few nice boulders to launch. Some glades too. Finding fresh tracks 2 days after a storm in these areas. Lots to explore.

Really great snow quality in this area since its shaded by the mountains and has good exposure.

Caveat: The main drag out of the bowl puts you into a meadow which requires you to remove ski to ascend a small knoll. This followed by a very, very flat (read: aggressive poling) ski out. To repeat the process requires 3 lift rides to the top again. With very fast skiing, it was still taking us 45 min to lap with no crowds.

Overall, quality terrain but a little over hyped with the marketing dept. playing up the beacon only requirements, etc. Similar to perhaps the Cirque at Snowbird or maybe Harmony at Whistler.


Wild West Area


This greatly exceeded my expectations from a technical steeps point. I thought it was going to be an open face with just a cornice that the patrol worries about sliding. Especially with the hype surrounding Delirium Dive. Wrong.

The Disney-fied sign with wagons and history tales of those crazy homesteaders does nothing to explain that their are some couloirs down there on par with the best.

Riding up Goats Eye, only a giant cliff band is visible to skier right. We checked in with the patrol at the top of Goats Eye about recommended routes, navigation, etc. Good visit. Patrol even offered to go with us-why not accept a free guide? He was thinking - gapers from States with beacons. Anyways, navigation is tough at first since you cannot see below. Skiers' right is the easiest route (highly recommend this. After the neck in the chutes, you ski glades/field down to the gondola base OR cut back on a traverse (skiers' left) back to Goats Eye. The powder below the couloirs was on the line of fresh/mush so only one exploration run to base.

Traffic is really, really low in Wild West. With Goats Eye high-speed quad, you could do quite a few laps per hour.

According to press releases, Wild West opened Dec 18 in 06/07 (record!) and Feb 24 in 05/06.

Patrick":2v2bt3sv said:

I've seen DD (although I also didn't have a beacon and didn't go), but I've seen only one or two pictures of Wild West, not a full report on them. Peyto's definitely looks challenging to say the least. The crux of the couloir at 170cm you say??? For how long? Great pics of the place.

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The crux of the Peyto's couloir at 170cm went on for a good 10ft that you cannot see from above. Obviously someone had gotten to it once and taken any traces of soft snow off. This forced us to gingerly side-step (as opposed to slide to preserve what's left) until you the point of just a straight-line till it opens up and check some speed.


Silver City

This is basically a steep rocky face with many cliffs and tough route finding.






It's unclear to me whether this even opened this year. (Edit: I guess it did open in late January for a period http://www.calgarysun.com/cgi-bin/publi ... les&s=edge) Supposedly during control activity, a patroller caused a slide which left him stranded - preventing access form above/below. Required heli evacuation. Anyways, this was not open during a top snow year in March - don't expect it often.


Eagle Saddle area - Wildside / Farside.

These areas do not require beacon and are about a 20-30 min hike from Goats Eye summit to the very top/furthest skiers left. Really nice south-facing open bowls with good corn snow.




Beacon Requirement
Given the number of electonic gate controlled areas, you could benefit from a beacon rental. I am pretty sure you can rent at the slopes for a day.

There seemed to be a number of clueless Brits taking the easiest way down Delirium with guides in large groups. Whether they all had beacons is doubtful - some guides would hold the doors open for the entire party. If someone cannot figure out how to open a gate with a beacon, good luck.

ChrisC":rlsxonxm said:

Tony Crocker":rlsxonxm said:

I had not heard about Wild West before. I usually don't miss info like this! Was this the first year? Are beacons required there as on Delirium Dive? Is it likely to be open only during big snow years?

Click to expand...

Sunshine has been somewhat quietly adding to their "Freeride Terrain" over the past few years. Or at least the noise has not gotten south of the border.

Delirium Dive was reopened to the public in 1998, followed by the Wild West in 2003 and both areas have been enjoyed by many expert skiers and riders. Silver City, previously unused is extreme and for experts only. Guests who choose to enter these areas will need to be equipped with an avalanche beacon, shovel and travel with a similarly equipped partner.

Click to expand...

Wild West got some press here when open that area up, it used to be a Permanently Closed area. However it didn't get as when the DD was opened. I'm not even sure if WW opened during it's first season.

ChrisC":rlsxonxm said:

Beacon Requirement
Given the number of electonic gate controlled areas, you could benefit from a beacon rental. I am pretty sure you can rent at the slopes for a day.

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I've had week trip in Banff in 1999 and 2000. Notice DD in 1999, wanted to try it, however I didn't have avy gear and partner. My wife just had vertigo looking at it from the ridge. In 2000, I inquired for the trip, the ski school had a system going where you could take a private lesson and you would do one run to be evaluated and then go in if the instructor judge you were good enough the instructor would bring you to DD.

I was tempted, however I had suffered a back injury earlier in January and I was far from 100% and skiing in pain in the last week of April (I had delayed my trip until my green light). I didn't want to spend $$$ and run into the risk of my back locking up. Anyways, I had my share of steeps on behind Whitehorn during 4 days on that trip. I also did a few laps on Wildside/Farside on the 2 days at SV.

In April 1999 I hired the instructor (I think about $70) for Adam and me to get a run in Delirium Dive. We took the stair route. I don't think intermediates have any business up there, but as I've mentioned in reference to college racers the definition of "intermediate" is probably different up north than here in SoCal.

March 2002 was a NASJA trip, so we had guides and packs provided and I got in 3 runs in Delirium Dive, all entering the bowl at skier's left. As soon as we cleared the first rock bands we traversed far right to get untracked or very lightly tracked powder.

Both 1999 and 2002 were very good years, comparable to this season. My other day at Sunshine was early February 2004. I did not ski the Dive that time, and the view of it from Goat's Eye was much rockier. Based on the above comments, there's no way Wild West would have been open.

As I recall from Patrick's experience in Montana, one should never assume that beacons and rescue gear can be rented at a ski area. Best to inquire ahead, so that you can find the right place to rent the gear.

Best to own one anyway. If you can't afford or justify ( :?: :!: This is your life we're talking about here...) new there's always eBay, Craigslist, etc. My experience from about 10 years ago is that few places will rent them due to liability concerns. Besides, they don't do squat unless you know how to use them, and use them well, and that requires practice you won't have time to do with a rental unit.

Tony Crocker":9f2ywhe7 said:

but as I've mentioned in reference to college racers the definition of "intermediate" is probably different up north than here in SoCal..

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Although I didn't ski it, I wouldn't say DD and "intermediate" should be associate in anyway. :shock: My wife skied Couloir Extreme at Blackcomb with ease, but was very impressed at at top of DD (okay, I admit it, it was foggy and she didn't realist it at the time that she went down Couloir Extreme :lol: ).

Tony Crocker":9f2ywhe7 said:

Both 1999 and 2002 were very good years, comparable to this season.

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Geez, are paths are often similar. We were at SV in 1999, 2000 and one day in 2002. Unless you ski everywhere... :wink:

Tony Crocker":9f2ywhe7 said:

As I recall from Patrick's experience in Montana, one should never assume that beacons and rescue gear can be rented at a ski area. Best to inquire ahead, so that you can find the right place to rent the gear.

Click to expand...

Admin":9f2ywhe7 said:

My experience from about 10 years ago is that few places will rent them due to liability concerns.

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I didn't think that it could be found at the ski area, but found a few places in Bozeman that rented avy gear. But the best deal was found grace to Hamdog. Thanks again Hamdog. I did some inquiries this year before a cancelled trip, found some places where I could rent in Banff. I also found a place where I could rent some avy gear in Ottawa.

Admin":9f2ywhe7 said:

new there's always eBay.

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I'm trying to stay away from Ebay. :lol: I was looking at some skis last week. :roll: Ebay = Bad. :lol:

Best to own one anyway.

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Obviously that depends upon where you're skiing. Cat, heli and guided backcountry operators provide them. So it depends on how likely you are to venture into uncontrolled/unguided backcountry, or to ski at areas like Bridger/Sunshine where it's required for much of the most interesting terrain. If a place like that was a "home" area I would certainly buy one.

I bought the whole package for Adam's 21st birthday, since I believe at his age and ski ability he should have it. My own need is infrequent enough that I can probably borrow from him or Garry. Admin is in Alta's sidecountry often enough that I understand his opinion completely.

I was at Sunshine one day before ChrisC and left pretty impressed with my two days there. I was skiing with people from the resort who weren't able to accompany me into any of the free ride areas (and I had absolutely no business being in any of them other than the easier parts of Delirium), but I did a fair amount of gaping, and didn't get the "boring terrain" criticism I've heard from some people.

Admin":dyzd0t57 said:

Best to own one anyway. If you can't afford or justify ( :?: :!: This is your life we're talking about here...) new there's always eBay, Craigslist, etc. My experience from about 10 years ago is that few places will rent them due to liability concerns. Besides, they don't do squat unless you know how to use them, and use them well, and that requires practice you won't have time to do with a rental unit.

Click to expand...

Tony Croker":dyzd0t57 said:

Obviously that depends upon where you're skiing. Cat, heli and guided backcountry operators provide them. So it depends on how likely you are to venture into uncontrolled/unguided backcountry, or to ski at areas like Bridger/Sunshine where it's required for much of the most interesting terrain. If a place like that was a "home" area I would certainly buy one.

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I'm going with Admin here.

I did not buy a transceiver until after a few years in Seattle - primarily because both Alpental and Crystal would 'maintain' their sidecountry. But with summer mountaineering and backcountry around Stevens/Baker - yes! And it's nice having your own gear that you are familiar with on heli trips, snowcats or Euro offpiste.


I am angry about how much the equipment costs: shovel ($20-30sh), probe (20-30sh) and beacon ($300 non-negotiable almost). I could not afford one until safety and a 2000 rise in my Internet company stock.

My brother informs that avalanche transceivers are among the only items you cannot pro-deal (read: at cost +10% or so). For a 20-something ski towner with city rents, hourly salary -- that's too much.

I think their is HUGE COLUSION going on in the industry. They all set their prices (what 3-5 makers) together at certain barriers.

I've got to think there is room for a Dell in the industry - cheap, functional, basic. What you lose in margin, you make up in volume. The technology has got to be easily copied. And hell, every male 20+ hiking Tuckermans carrying one at a $50-100 price point. Shake up the market. Marginalize it. Gaper-ize it. Have it become as commonplace as a Camelback.

Not only skiers/riders would buy it, buy the snowmobilers killing themselves in the backcountry too.

A business. And providing safety to a lot of people where $300 is out of reach.

Tony Crocker":1dzmxx3e said:

As I recall from Patrick's experience in Montana, one should never assume that beacons and rescue gear can be rented at a ski area. Best to inquire ahead, so that you can find the right place to rent the gear.

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Outside of Kicking Horse/Sunshine, Big Sky/Bridger and maybe Jackson/Teton Pass...there are not too many places that you really need to rent to beacons to ski some best/widely skied areas.

I think a friend rented a beacon at REI before out Big Sky/Bridger trip. maybe need to confirm that one.

jamesdeluxe":10ayf1v3 said:

I was at Sunshine one day before ChrisC and left pretty impressed with my two days there. I was skiing with people from the resort who weren't able to accompany me into any of the free ride areas (and I had absolutely no business being in any of them other than the easier parts of Delirium), but I did a fair amount of gaping, and didn't get the "boring terrain" criticism I've heard from some people.

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You were really there under exceptional conditions.

My first time there - and not too off the mark on how things can be - Goats Eye was an icy windsept horror show.

The verticals on Standish and Wa-Wa are both under 1000 and nothing to get excited about.

Continental is good - but winds can mess it up. Angel - there are some weird flats there.

Wolverine - nothing special.

But I admit, the world was right when we were both there, and it would be hard not to like it. It was good.

That is the best edit I've seen here on FTO or elsewhere. Thanks for adding the Delirium Dive map and routes + Silver City lines pics.

WOW... \/

ChrisC":15zkolaz said:

Shake up the market. Marginalize it. Gaper-ize it. Have it become as commonplace as a Camelback.

Not only skiers/riders would buy it, buy the snowmobilers killing themselves in the backcountry too.

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Of course, the easy devil's advocate position is that cheap transceivers may give people who either don't have the skiing or BC lifesaving skillz a false sense of security ("hey, I've got a transceiver!").

Speaking as someone who's gotten himself into real trouble -- in the Arlberg, for instance -- by following far better skiers into the sidecountry and thinking that a transceiver was some kind of insurance policy. Based on slide TRs from TGR, there's a whole logistical/emotional clusterf**k side to a rescue that makes me think that other people shouldn't put their lives in my hands (and vice-versa).

Early February 2004 at Sunshine was slightly better than ChrisC's first visit. For expert skiing the north side/Whitehorn area of Lake Louise was better even though everyone knows Sunshine gets more snow. The issue with Sunshine's high-end terrain is that it is either badly exposed (Goat's Eye) or needs tons of snow for decent cover (the Dive, Wild West). Sunshine fits what I call the "Colorado syndrome." It takes a long time for the steep terrain to get covered by the frequent but modest storms of light and dry snow. Thus March/April is probably the best time to ski there.

My brother informs that avalanche transceivers are among the only items you cannot pro-deal

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I believe ski patrollers can get pro-deals on transceivers. But media, college racers, other ski industry employees, probably not.