July 4 on the Angeles Crest

I hadn't been all the way up Angeles Crest Hwy since it reopened in May after repairing the 2005 storm damage. I also thought it would be better for Samantha up there as she doesn't like the heat. Samantha turned 13 on June 24, and the climbing power in her hind legs has declined quite a bit since her last big hikes above Glendale and Pasadena in December/January. She's fine on level ground or gradual inclines for quite a while. So I drove to the Dawson Saddle high point of the road at 7,901 feet. We arrived 9:15 and climbed up to the Pacific Crest trail. I missed the immediate cutoff trail to Throop Peak, so we wound up taking a trace trail up its SW side. Weather was what I wanted, mostly shaded on the north side trail, with a sea breeze once we were on the Pacific Crest. I'd guess 5 miles roundtrip with 1,200 foot gain.

Summit plaque


Views in all directions. SW here, Mt. Wilson (5,700) is the flat mountain just to the left of the smaller tree at right.

W to Mt. Waterman, a couple of the wider runs possibly visible.


Close-by Mt. Baden-Powell to the East. The direct trail there is 2x as much vertical, so I didn't want to stress Samantha on that.


SE to Baldy


South view over L.A. metro. Larger peak sticking out of the haze is Saddleback, highest point in Orange County, a bit over 5,000. The more distant peak at left is probably between Temecula and Camp Pendleton in San Diego County.


We encountered absolutely no one on the entire hike up, but maybe 15-20 people headed up after 11AM while we were on the way down. Coming down the hill Samantha was dragging a bit, probably due to that trace trail at the top. When I stop to give her water she hunts for shade. Desert view to north behind her.


Driving back, here's the defunct single chair at Kratka Ridge (only ski-related content :wink: ).


FYI they were doing scenic rides at Waterman when I passed by around noon.

mountain biking-n-stuff at waterman on the weekends. i hope to get up there this summer.

I was up there July 11th.It sure would be nice to ride that single chair again.

Those mountains are pretty high! I'm shocked it rains up there in the winter at all.

That looks like a nice hike for a dog.

As far as I know it almost always rains more the up the mountain you go, the whole orthographic lift thing being one (or maybe the only?) cause. In LA there's plenty of times we get rain up in the mountains but it stays dry down in the valleys.

rfarren is almost certainly referring to rain vs. snow in winter. We are at 34 degrees latitude here, and by my records going back to 1976 we average 3-4 days of rain at 7,000 foot resort levels in SoCal November - April (compare to 12 days at the Mansfield Stake in Vermont http://bestsnow.net/snoqlnet.htm). The "safe" elevation where winter rain becomes rare is about 9,000 feet at this latitude, which is the base elevation of the Arizona and New Mexico ski areas.

Are there any stats that would provide the safe snow level in the north east. For example how much rain does the top of mount washington get?

Are there any stats that would provide the safe snow level in the north east.

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IMHO there is none. The Mansfield Stake is at 3,900 feet and quite far north in New England. Patrick argues that rain is less frequent in Quebec, but altitudes are also lower and he provided some stats from the Laurentians that showed a similar number of rain days as northern New England. Maybe once you get as far as Le Valinouet rain incidence might go down a little. Or the Chic-Chocs with Quebec latitude and Green Mountain altitude.

Ratio of total water to total snow (November-April) on top of Mt. Washington is something like 17%. There has to be a lot of rain in that stat because when it actually does snow in New England mountains I've read that water content averages in the 8-10% range. I'm inclined to believe that from the subjective reports we get on New England powder days.

The bottom line is that warm fronts from the Gulf of Mexico make their way into the Northeast with some regularity. Ask powderfreak or another NE weather guru what the freezing elevation is for those storms. I'll bet it's 8,000+ fairly often.

On the Pacific Coast I see a gradual change in the "safe" snow level from 9,000 in SoCal/AZ/NM to 5,000 in western Canada. We do remember torrential downpours to the peaks like New Year's 1997 in the Sierra and the 2005 Tropical Punch in Canada, but the reason we remember them is because they happen once or twice a decade rather than 5 times every season as in the Northeast.