Snowbird, UT 7/4/11

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
Day 101: $hitshow

If Snowbird lost money on some of their open weekend days over the past month they made up for it today in spades, and then some. The first hint was that all lots were full when I arrived and folks were parking on both sides of Little Cottonwood Canyon Road.

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I somehow managed to get a decent makeshift spot on the Bypass Road, where I bumped into Skidog. He was already done and had assumed the position.

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Bobby Danger and Telejon were still out there somewhere but anyone was positively impossible to find in that mess. I arrived at the Tram Plaza to find the liftline filling the maze, back around the Tram building, past Christy's to the Demo Center, then zigging back across the Plaza to the ticket window, then filing straight back onto the skier bridge. :shock: Lots of bikinis and short shorts, and a handful of rather elaborate costumes. At the same time Snowbird was hosting a holiday pancake breakfast that just added to the mess for at times it was hard to tell who was standing in the pancake line and who was waiting for the Tram. Fifty minutes later I boarded the lift.

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The summit scene on Hidden Peak wasn't much better.

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Most folks were sticking to the groomers, so I escaped the masses by heading to Chamonix 1, which skied remarkably well. Perfect corn even if a little dirty.

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This of course unfortunately dumped me onto the Lupine Loop groomer.

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Remembering the 45-60 minute liftlines for Little Cloud on July 4, 2005 this would also put me at the higher capacity Mineral Basin Express which nonetheless had a 20-minute liftline.

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I'd already had enough. So had the folks I rode the lift with. Nearly everyone was downloading on the Tram and there was no way I was opting for that mess. I looped around the summit and dropped into the peaceful solitude of the Peruvian Gulch "backcountry" for my final run of the season. Right as I did so, however, of the thousands of songs stored on my phone in through my helmet came -- so help me God, I'm not kidding -- "Fourth of July" by X:
View attachment 4th Of July - X.wma (click link to play)

Spooky. Really spooky. I just kept repeating the song for the whole run. At the end of the short road below Chip's Face at little more than 8,000 feet of elevation I had to take off my skis once for about 75 feet. Other than that I was able to ski to within 100 yards of the car parked on the Bypass Road. On July 4th. Amazing.

There was a ton more snow today than there had been on July 4, 2005. It's been a really big snow year in the Wasatch followed by a cool, wet spring that preserved snow pretty much until the past week, which hung in the 90s and even broke 100 in the Salt Lake Valley. You know it's been a big snow year when the Oquirrh Mountains on the west side of the Salt Lake Valley still have snow on them into July.

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I'm done. It was hard enough to get motivated to go up there to ski, although that seemed to afflict few other Utah skiers today. 101 days and I'm calling it a season. It's time to enjoy summer.
 
Great narrative and photos, Admin. Amazing how much snow still remains at many of the western ski areas. Truly an incredible season.

The top of the Snowbird tram very much resembles the top of the Mammoth gondi at 2 pm this afternoon. The traditional party and snowball fight was a lot of fun as we celebrated the end of a fantastic season.



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Climax was very well covered.

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I'll leave a full Mammoth TR to Tony's capable camera and pen. :snowball fight:
 
looks like a much sunnier day in cali. it was nice to have it cloudy after this past weekends cloudless days . 103 in the valley yesterday at my house todays 80 felt nice with the clouds . started the morning with skidog ,a couple of minerals and then jon showed up on the summit the same time as skidog and i , from there i never saw skidog again . jon and i started for the base he forgot some stuff at the base . upon arrival at the tram plaza we find a minimum seven tram wait to summit again . by this time there were a couple thousand people on the upper mtn. the place is just crawling with people , mineral basin line was huuuuuge , little cloud forget it i wouldn't even ski into little cloud bowl ,(but it was nice earlier) little cloud was twice the size of mineral and going nowhere with the slow chair . we debated weather to ski another peruivan gulch or hike baldy with a main chute keyhole combo. in mind, the baldy hike won the debate , couldn't go back into that tram line and waist the day. both main chute and keyhole were still wall to wall snow no issues the season ain't over yet !!! 95 today
 
skibum4ever, looks like a gorgeous day in the Sierra. Plus your snow was white, not brown with desert dust like ours is now.

Mrs. Admin and I finished up our 4th with dinner and fireworks in Sugar House.

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Happy Independence Day, everyone!
 
By July 4 the lower reaches of Snowbird are usually bare, so logistics of the lift system do not permit a feasible way to relieve the crowds. I do note that admin's TR suggests this year may have been an exception. Did any of you consider skiing July 2 or 3 instead of 4? Were the crowds as bad?

Mammoth ran 23 as well as the upper gondola (they had only run one of those lifts during June) to handle holiday traffic. They also ran chair 2 to provide a second parking base and access to the mountain.

admin":2uykfouz said:
If Snowbird lost money on some of their open weekend days over the past month they made up for it today in spades, and then some.
This was a point I neglected to bring up in the previous Snowbird discussions. Snowboard247 has provided data that late season skiing at Mammoth is 2/3 season passholders. This makes sense because Mammoth has relatively cheap season passes and it's the only big mountain within weekend commute distance of its key skier market. Snowbird has cheaper day tickets than Mammoth and much more expensive season passes. Furthermore the Utah locals wanting season passes have numerous other areas to consider. Therefore on the obnoxious late season lift line days like April 30, May 30 and July 4 far less than 2/3 of the visitors are passholders and Snowbird is probably selling a ton of day tickets. I respectfully suggest that they could afford to pay for a few more lifties on anticipated big crowd days at least as much as Mammoth did this year on both Memorial and July 4 holiday weekends.

skibum4ever":2uykfouz said:
I'll leave a full Mammoth TR to Tony's capable camera and pen.
Hopefully tomorrow. I was staying in a cheap motel with crappy WiFi, did not want to think about loading pictures. The first 2 nights I was exhausted and Sunday I did an afternoon hike up to Mammoth Rock with 3 of the Mammoth Forum group, then provided Adam some assistance recovering from a backcountry adventure up at Tioga Pass. Hopefully he'll put up a report from that later this week. I was up at the snowball fight until 2:40 or so, wandered around some but did not find skibum4ever or other Mammoth Forum folks.
 
Tony Crocker":14vhyfws said:
By July 4 the lower reaches of Snowbird are usually bare, so logistics of the lift system do not permit a feasible way to relieve the crowds.

Skiers were limited to one uplift on the Tram. That line was in spite of that.

Tony Crocker":14vhyfws said:
Did any of you consider skiing July 2 or 3 instead of 4?

Others did. Yesterday was busy due to the novelty of it all. The rest of the weekend was normal.

Tony Crocker":14vhyfws said:
I respectfully suggest that they could afford to pay for a few more lifties on anticipated big crowd days at least as much as Mammoth did this year on both Memorial and July 4 holiday weekends.

Really? To run which lift? The bottom terminals of Peruvian and Gadzoom are presently surrounded by nothing but lush green grass, mud, rocks, etc.

This is yet another demonstration of the futility of trying to armchair quarterback from 500 miles away while clueless about current conditions.
 
Admin":2lruk5vv said:
Tony Crocker":2lruk5vv said:
By July 4 the lower reaches of Snowbird are usually bare, so logistics of the lift system do not permit a feasible way to relieve the crowds.

Skiers were limited to one uplift on the Tram. That line was in spite of that.
Adding detail....each pass, including season passes, were good for one uphill ride. Each additional ride would cost you $10 or a food and beverage receipt for that day of $10 or more. They were intentionally making it unattractive to ski to the bottom. All routes down require some degree of walking. If you didn't know the hill well and which terrain keeps the snow longest, those walks could be very extensive.

Admin":2lruk5vv said:
Tony Crocker":2lruk5vv said:
Did any of you consider skiing July 2 or 3 instead of 4?

Others did. Yesterday was busy due to the novelty of it all. The rest of the weekend was normal.
I skied on Sunday, to round out my season day count at 50. Having skied on July 4 2005 for the novelty of it, I had no great desire for a repeat.

Admin":2lruk5vv said:
Tony Crocker":2lruk5vv said:
I respectfully suggest that they could afford to pay for a few more lifties on anticipated big crowd days at least as much as Mammoth did this year on both Memorial and July 4 holiday weekends.

Really? To run which lift? The bottom terminals of Peruvian and Gadzoom are presently surrounded by nothing but lush green grass, mud, rocks, etc.
So are the top terminals of those two lifts. There is also no snow on either the low traverse from the Plaza to Gad Valley or on the Bass Highway to return to the Plaza.
 
I did say, or at least imply strongly, that there is not a good answer to July 4 crowds at Snowbird due to lift layout.
Tony Crocker":3ks7pryc said:
By July 4 the lower reaches of Snowbird are usually bare, so logistics of the lift system do not permit a feasible way to relieve the crowds.
The likely best strategy was to ski July 2 or 3 instead, as MarcC did. There is a tendency in the same direction at Mammoth. On Memorial weekend Monday always is significantly less crowded than Saturday/Sunday. But for the July holiday the last day draws the same or even a bit more crowds as the previous 2 days, despite daily degrading of snow conditions by the heat and skier traffic. For those reasons my common strategy is to ski just the first day of that last weekend. This year there was roughly double the available terrain as my 6 previous Julys at Mammoth, so it was worthwhile to ski all 3 days.

My criticism remains of the April 30/May 30 situations at Snowbird, because those days were clearly extremely profitable in terms of day ticket sales and the addition of just one more lift would have immensely improved the experience for those visitors.
 
Tony Crocker":3k5girx2 said:
My criticism remains of the April 30/May 30 situations at Snowbird, because those days were clearly extremely profitable in terms of day ticket sales and the addition of just one more lift would have immensely improved the experience for those visitors.
So you're continuing to bitch about 2 days out of a 202 day season, and you weren't even there for one of them? :roll: And comments about July 4 crowds and lifts are irrelevant as this is only the third July 4th in the entire history of Snowbird that they operated.
 
Tony Crocker":3w0aiu6m said:
I did say, or at least imply strongly, that there is not a good answer to July 4 crowds at Snowbird due to lift layout.

No, you didn't. In fact you wrote:

Tony Crocker":3w0aiu6m said:
I respectfully suggest that they could afford to pay for a few more lifties on anticipated big crowd days at least as much as Mammoth did this year on both Memorial and July 4 holiday weekends.

I pointed out that your suggestion is not only impractical, but literally impossible.
 
July 4th in the US. It's the novelty, the party, the atmosphere. A bunch of stuff that cannot be measured on a spreadsheet. Like closing day at Alta.

For myself, it's like skiing in June on my birthday. There is a bonus when it's on the actual day versus the day before. It count be pissing rain and it would matter. That being said, I did it in the rain and fog at Blackcomb back in 1988 and it was a feeling I would never forget. (I guess for people with their birthday during the regular ski season, it's might not be that special). It only happened twice afterwards, at Kmart in 1992 and Mammoth for number 40 in 2005. Came close a few times, but the stars weren't aligned.

I respect people that don't care about this, but it always gave me a buzz to know that I'm skiing on June 1 versus May 30. The fact that they is a party atmosphere, make it special. Skiing on July 4 (or 1st for Canadians) outside NA would be the same, right? Nothing making it has special versus the other July days. Well, that is the way I feel.

Please carry on on the lift staffing issue / non-issue. :popcorn:
 
I agree with Patrick in concept. July 4 had thinner/heavier/chewed up snow than July 2 at Mammoth but there were all the costumes, great party atmosphere etc. As in 2006 I got there early, skied until 10:30, took a break and went back ~1PM for the closing festivities. But most of the skiing was still pretty good and I never waited for more than 5 minutes/15-20 people in line all day. At some point the nuisance value degrades the experience enough that I would look for an alternative. For some of us one 50-minute line plus one 20-minute line for 2 runs is beyond that point. I think MarcC made the wiser choice in Utah this weekend.

Patrick":2flk1uy7 said:
There is a bonus when it's on the actual day versus the day before.
Agree, but it depends upon what the price premium ($, quality, crowds) is for the actual day/time frame. Christmas week is the classic example IMHO where said price premium is rarely worth it.

The backcountry scraps are a different issue; presumably we're going to see Patrick's July report soon. :stir: People go hiking in the mountains all the time. If you have the conditioning/stamina to carry ski equipment up there, any skiing that's gets done is a bonus as I see it. And in a Mt. Shasta situation I think it's masochistic to be up there in current conditions without skis.

Patrick":2flk1uy7 said:
Please carry on on the lift staffing issue / non-issue.
I think it's adequately covered by now. I thank admin for reminding us of Snowbird's profitability in day ticket sales when there are huge late season crowds. =D>
 
Tony Crocker":1cdhlwtn said:
presumably we're going to see Patrick's July report soon. :stir:
I don't know, I have to hit the dark room for those pics + Bluesfest started tonight. Preparing my next trip, etc. :twisted:
 
admin":24v2tzke said:
No, you didn't.
Please... ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
For the THIRD TIME:
Tony Crocker":24v2tzke said:
By July 4 the lower reaches of Snowbird are usually bare, so logistics of the lift system do not permit a feasible way to relieve the crowds.
Mammoth was logistically capable of running more lifts to prevent crowding on July 4 while Snowbird was not. In late April/May both mountains are logistically capable but Snowbird does not care to make the effort even though it is probably making more money than Mammoth on day tickets.
 
snowbird just doesn't put in the late season effort . they've made their money by this point in the year (from skiing) they have other activities to focus on .
 
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