Freerides 1, Legend 8000s 0

in a battle between which would break under the most pressure, i have sadly demonstrated that the freeride is one hefty binding. i am mostly to blame i think. i've been taking my BC setup out more and more in bounds when the snow is good and especially for powder. before today, i was really careful with the setup in bounds and on the few tours i made, but was especially careful in bounds not to exert as much forward preasure and to heavily utilize the ski's full side cut. essentially, i usually just try to make powder style turns staying centered.

today i let em' rip, cause man... it was a killer day. big carving arcs on the groomed with full application of the sidecut were no problem, utilitzing some forward lean and applying flex to make some quick turns felt good. i thought i had been overly cautious.

coming down a tight shot on the 'sill, i was being really aggressive due to the narrow width of the trail. right at the end of the chute, i pulled up hard and went into instant tele. i popped it right back in while still in motion which seemed weird. i inspected the binding locking mechanism and it looked just fine. i continue skiing some pow, and BAM instant tele again putting me face first into the snow. i clear out the snow on the decks removing the ski for a full inspection, and all is well with the freeride.

then i noticed it wasn't the binding causing instant tele action, the top sheet of the ski right under the arch of my foot had been lifted and seperated with wood core fully visible. the tail was angling up slightly which accounted for the mis-alignment on the binding causing instant tele. damn. i managed to ski it out staying in the back seat and not making any quick turns fortunately, but damn. that ski had less than 10 days on it man did it rip! since i enjoyed skiing it so much, i guess i probably should have mounted regular bingings on them and got another board for the AT rig, but financially, i had already sunk the money into a pair of skis AND the binding.

fwiw, the DIN was only on 9 and the situation involving the break was definitely not a situation that a release should have occured even with a lower DIN. i did the same thing to a pair of foam core rossi's (regular bindings) five years ago, but in that case the DIN was cranked to like 12 (from racing) and should have popped off (glad it was the ski and not my leg that broke in that case!).

has any one else seen this type of breakage before? just curious if it was the ski itself, or if i was putting to much preassure on the binding and the binding specifically caused the breakage (well, i actually caused it, but just trying to account for where i went wrong). assuming the ski manufacturing is not suspect, i think it says quite a bit about the freeride that the ski was pushed to the breaking point before the binding.

damn, only a month before i would have started putting serious use on that setup too! :evil:

Bummer, man. With only 10 days on the ski, it sounds like a warranty item.

it might have been a warrenty item had i not bought the skis on ebay on the cheap. it was an offer too good to pass up. from what i understand, the manufacturer will not honor teh warrenty if the skis were bought from ebay or a non-authorized dealer.

i just was analyzing the damage. when flexing the ski, i became very convinced the ski's construction was not at fault, but rather the heavy amount of flex i was utilizing combined with the freeride binding itself. additionally, i had the DIN cranked up to 9 whereas the shop put it at 7 or so (i was pre-releasing like crazy though). in hind sight, i really should have suffered the pre-releases if i wanted to tango on piste with the skis.

that said, i just got a tip that the skis were on sale for $350 so i snagged another pair. they might have gone lower in a few months, but with a ski that has generated as much buzz as this one has, i didn't want to chance it. i love it that much. gonna do the responsible thing though and toss a pair of look bindings on this pair and re-evaluate my backcountry setup. i was thinking about trying to find a pair of nobis inspired's from last year on the cheap somewhere. from my few touring stints, i little wider and longer than the legend 8000s wouldn't hurt.

My hat's off to you after looking at that picture! =D>

rivercOIL,
You're not gonna buy that same ski again...? Manufacturing looks pretty chincy. Is there anyway to know if the ebay sticks are rejects that didn't find their way to the trash bin....or not?

BigSpencer":313d74sy said:

Is there anyway to know if the ebay sticks are rejects that didn't find their way to the trash bin....or not?

Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing...been using my Freerides on Dynastar Candides all season and have had no troubles at all. I bought the skis off of ebay too, but haven't had any troubles with them either.

Any chance you might have hit a rock hidden under snow after catching air? I know you probably would have felt it, but stranger things have happened. Once blew half a sidewall out of a pair of K2's and didn't notice it until after I stopped skiing. Still have no idea how it happened.

Been thinking about this and I still can't figure out how you managed to break your ski where you did. It is hard to believe that turning hard with some forward lean would do this to a ski.

Did you mount these bindings or did you have a shop do it for you? Fritschi's are not the easiest binding to mount properly to a ski, especially if you use the paper template the bindings come with. The shop I use has the jig, so I'm sure mine are mounted properly.

Is it possible that the heel and toe plates were mounted a bit too close together, putting pressure on the ski at this point and leading to the break when you made that tight turn?

the bindings were mounted by bob smith's wilderness in boston who sell AT and backcountry skiing gear. i inspected the bindings closely when i picked them up and didn't notice anything to indicate a bad mount, additionally they skied like a dream so i think the mount was good.

i do not know when the actual break occured. the first time i went instant tele, i was coming out of a tight steep chute. i got a little air and landed in the back seat, then the binding popped on me. i could have hit a rock, what ever happened it wasn't noticabled while i was skiing.

the idea of the skis being rejects had occured to me and it is very plausible. i got the skis from ebay in december for about $200-300 less than the going price at the time. there is a slight cosmetic difference between the old pair and the new pair that could indicate a different batch (the logo piece was clear on one ski and colored black on the other *shrug*).

BigSpencer, regarding buying the same ski again, i did search around the net for other people reporting similar problems and i couldn't find any indication that there is a pattern here. it is the best ski that i have found for my style of skiing and the turns i like to make. it is the only ski i have ever used on which i honestly feel i can do more with than i can with other skis. they know where i am going to turn before i do sometimes. i gotta run the risk that it is poor construction, i am of the belief the construction is not at fault. i am throwing an alpine binding on them this time, and worst case scenerio... if one ski breaks again, i'll still have a pair!!!! :lol:

someone mentioned to me that the freeride screws might be longer than regular bindings (look P series are the norm for these skis i believe). could a longer ski drilled deeper into the board account for the break? it's all speculation at this point.

i re-examined the base on the ski looking for signs of a rock collision that caused the damage. there is an angled scrape leading towards the edge where the sidewall blew out slightly. the edge has some damage in this area as well. theoretically, i could have made a hard left turn and caught the rock above the edge to split the board open. i can't pinpoint the time and location of this specific base damage, but it is definitely a possibility a rock split it open, especially given the steepness of the chute and the location and angle of the turn. who knows.

riverc0il":j6hmecu9 said:

i re-examined the base on the ski looking for signs of a rock collision that caused the damage. there is an angled scrape leading towards the edge where the sidewall blew out slightly. the edge has some damage in this area as well.

Click to expand...

A smoking gun; if that sidewall is deformed then the rigidity of the ski may have been compromised. If I recall you're about my size, 6"2" and about 190lbs, so a hard turn may just have finished the job and broke the ski.

A buddy's K2 Axis died the same death.

yup, the sidewall is blown out slightly on the side with the direction of base damage. you remember correctly, i'm a fairly large guy at 6'1" and 200+ lbs.

steve,
i demoed the 8000's this past weekend and had a blast on them. in fact i am planning to pick up a pair and mount them with freerides or naxo bindings. hopefully i won't have the same outcome as yourself

where were you able to find them for $350? the cheapest i've found is $525. i'd love to beat that price, then maybe i could afford the randonee setup...

thanks

-dave

dave, i spied them at a dicks sporting goods that was recently converted from a galyans. i do not know if regular dicks would have them or if they were hold overs from galyans. actually, all their skis were rediculously cheap.

i will warn about the AT setup with the legends that you will love the ski so much you'll want it as your everyday in bounds ski before long. i know from experience :lol: additionally, the ski does loose just a tad of it's performance with the AT binding on there based on my demo with regular bindings. it's not a lot of performance lost and i quickly forgot about the difference, but i remember the first day or two feeling the ski wasn't quite as quick with the freeride as opposed to the look.

was that the danverse store? they seem to be sold out. oh well...a deal that good could not last long.

I am planning on this being my primary resort ski although i am spending more and more time in the backcountry. a friend of mine who put freerides on his atomic 10ex's said the skis felt notably softer and i have heard there can be some play with the heel piece. i think i am willing to accept this since i ski mostly trees and bumps, i don't need quite as much precision as skiing fast icy groomers.

until i can afford a 5 ski quiver, there will always be some compromise

it was the danvahs store. i was told they only brought in three pairs all year and i scored the last one just this week. i don't know how a ski this hot sat there all season when they only brought three into the store.

the "play" in the heel piece of the freeride is so overrated it's not even funny. i didn't notice it at all when skiing and i pushed the skis and bindings (obviously :lol: ). when you first get the things mounted and try to wiggle the heel piece you notice a slight movement that is disconcerting, but is quickly forgotten once you start skiing.

Steve, I have the Titanal 3, not the Freeride as at 5'8" 155lbs I dont need the 10+ DIN, and have had no probs.
I had 'em on my Atomic 9.22's and loved 'em.I've yanked them off and threw them on my Pocket Rockets and love them even more. I love how light they are! It's like having toothpicks under my feet! I havent had any problems with preformance. The only minor problem I can say is that you really need to make damn sure your toe and heel are free of snow when you step in or you'll be on your arse looking for your ski.
The only problems I've heard of for the Fritschi are from very large skiers carving tight arcs at high speed blowing out toepieces.
I still think they are pretty bombproof and only get better with each year.
Too bad aboot yer ski.
((*
*))NHPH

I just dropped my legends off to be mounted with my new freerides. I remember reading somewhere that the legends should be mounted a bit forward of center. do you know anything about this? the guy at the store showed me the mark on the ski where the mounting rig attached but said he didn't know anything about changing the position. the store does not sell dynastar. i just want to make sure this is done right. any advice? thanks

-dave

mount the freerides boot center on the legend 8000s for sure! the next year legend 8000s (05-06 model) actually has the boot center mark moved backwards 1.5cm. i just got a pair of inspired bigs (the previous year's 8800) in the same size, those have a boot center mark 2cm's forward of the first generation legend 8000s and everyone says to mount those 2cm's back which is how i mounted them... it's the same mount point that the legend 8000 has. so take a look at history:

nobis inspired/inspired big (same ski): everyone said to mount them 2cm back.
legend 8000 is produced 2cm further back than the inspireds
2nd year legend 8000 1.5cm further back.

i notice a trend here but in my opinion, the 04/05 ski was perfectly designed including placement of boot center. i wouldn't move it forward unless you're looking for more of a twin tip "centered" mounting feel. unless you have the 05/06 legend 8000?? they have black lettering on the shinny dynastar logo on the tip, the 04/05 has all silver. if you have the 05/06, then mounting 1.5 cm's forward of boot center would put you at the 04/05 mounting point. follow?

thanks for the explanation. I got some turns last weekend at jay peak and had a good time on the skis. it is definitely an adjustment coming from my 62mm waist skis. They were great in the soft spring bumps on UN and canam although i found the shovel getting caught up in some of the tighter troughs when the moguls were still hard. I was a bit disapointed with their performance in the sun baked crud on the jet. they felt like they were getting thrown around a bit too much. they are a lighter ski (good for the backcountry), so maybe they can't blast through the heavy stuff quite as well despite their width.

the biggest surprise of the day was how well they held on ice. kitz woods was still in the shadows in the morning, but the skis made great short turns in the hardpack. maybe it is the factory tune which gives them so much bite, but i was impressed nonetheless.

i'm heading up to tucks this weekend with my new skins and looking forward to not having to haul my skis and boots on my back

-dave