Mammoth, CA, Feb. 11-12, 2015

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Liz and I decided to get in a couple of days at Mammoth after last weekend's storms. Adam had been there Monday/Tuesday so we knew what to expect. The initial storm Friday night had a rain/snow line near the Main Lodge and snowed 7 inches at the nearby patrol plot. The second storm Sunday had a fluctuating rain/snow line that reached as high as 10,500 feet. While the snow level came down at the end, there were high winds and some stripped areas have an icy shine like this one near the top of Chair 1.
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The top of the mountain got about 2 feet and generally restored coverage to where it had been on my first visit Dec. 18-19.
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The steep sections from Dave's through the Wipeouts generally had soft or chalky snow. There were stripped hard areas on some of the aprons as shown above but usually there was a fall line of packed powder to avoid those. On Monday Adam said the grooming was so-so, and the rained-upon terrain below wasn't great. My experience is that Mammoth grooming first day after a storm is fairly light, but much more intensive after that. I was very impressed by the groomers Wednesday. Main Lodge groomers were essentially packed powder even though an icy glaze was often visible just off the trails. Liz speculated that the demo event may have inspired extra diligence in the grooming.

The pleasant surprise of this trip is that it coincided with the annual Southern California demo of the Western Winter Sports Rep Association. http://www.wwsra.com/show-schedule/ These demos are held around the West immediately after the SIA convention in Denver, primarily for ski shops to test and order equipment for the upcoming season. This is by far the largest demo event I have ever seen, taking over the entire Chair 2 parking lot.
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I was at this event with my NASJA credential for one day in 2011, but Liz and I had two full demo days this time.

Liz wanted to start with DPS. I was on the Wailer 99 at 184cm. Dimensions are similar to many western daily drivers like my Blizzard Bonafides, but there is more tip rocker and the widest point is well back of the tip like many powder skis. We skied a few cruisers, Broadway, face of 3 and Cornice, then Climax. I also skied West Bowl and Dave's Run. The DPS skis are extremely light weight and to me had a strong soft snow bias. That didn't mean it needed to be deep powder; a couple inches of loose snow on the side of Cornice or Dave's was more than adequate. I could get them to hold an edge on the more frequent firmer snow, but they seemed to require a bit more precise balance than my Bonafides to do that.

We returned to DPS for powder skis. The women's were out but I got the Wailer 112's, also 184cm. With the mostly firm snow, 112 was not an ideal width and thus less responsive than narrower skis. I skied these on Wipe Out, St. Anton, Climax, China Bowl and Coyote. Nonetheless these would be strong contender if I were to get a new powder ski. They are similar dimensions to the Volkl powder skis I needed at Mustang in 2013 in upside down snow too deep for my Head Jimis, and I have to believe the DPS light weight is also a plus for flotation in deep snow.

Some of the shop reps were ripping the Chair 23 runs. Here are a couple in Drop Out 1 and Wipe Out 1.
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For my 3rd demo I decided to aim for a ski well suited for the day's conditions. I chose the Stockli StormRider 88 at 178. To no surprise they were rock solid on Drop Out 3, so I ventured out to check out the Paranoids, here viewed from below earlier in the day
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I chickened out upon close inspection as the entrances were both rocky and glazed and there would likely be fall consequences. Snow in Paranoid 3 looked good and occasionally we saw people skiing there but I never saw how they got in. I traversed across a mostly rough and frozen Monument, and due to rock barriers reached the better snow in Paranoid 1 about halfway down.

Our 4th and final demos Wednesday were from Faction. Mine was the Prodigy 98 at 177cm. These were perhaps the least responsive skis of the day, but I can hardly criticize too much since I still skied nonstop runs on Climax and Drop Out 1 on them.

Total for Wednesday was 24,500 vertical.

Both mornings it was close to 40F in town when we got going around 8:15, and with clear skies, no wind and more bare ground than snow it felt more like a typical Memorial Day than mid-February. Thursday's weather on the mountain was warmer than Wednesday and made the comparison even more salient. Spring conditions advanced halfway up the hill on the Main Lodge side, more typical of mid-April. We both dumped a layer while eating lunch outside at the Mill around noon. Fortunately the steep runs up top retained chalky/soft packed powder surfaces.

On Wednesday it took until 10:30 to get through registration, but on Thursday we were on the hill with our first demos by 8:45. Early in the morning I thought narrower was the way to go, and encouraged Liz to try the Stockli Motion, women's version of the ski I had the day before. I took the Rossignol Experience 88 at 178cm, which has won some magazine reviews as an eastern one-ski quiver. This seemed appropriate with the current east-west role reversal of snow conditions. We skied Dave's Run and continued down to Canyon Lodge. Liz on Dave's:
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The run to Canyon was in full-on corn mode at 9:25AM, and would likely be slop by 11AM, especially with the upcoming President's weekend traffic. At any rate the Experience 88 was like both Stocklis a perfect ski for the conditions.

We next moved to Armada. Besides the typical 88 and 98 width skis, Armada had the Invictus 95 Ti 185cm with a bit more sidecut, so I gave that a try. I skied a Broadway cruiser and then Climax and Upper Dry Creek. Liz on Climax:
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Upper Dry Creek:
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We rode up Chair 5 to ski Christmas Bowl and Coyote. Chair 5 still has marginal skiing. Dry Creek has blown-in soft snow and Solitude is groomed, but all the runs across the middle of 5 have big exposed ice patches and nobody was skiing there.

Liz and I both have an impression of Armada as a soft snow/powder oriented company, but the Invictus 95 Ti was the best mid-90's width ski for the packed and spring conditions of the day. The Invictus is also available without the Titanium as a $499 intermediate oriented ski.

Armada also had a plain white prototype of the Kufo 103 at 186cm. I took these to Drop Out 3 and Wipe Out 2. These were not as quick as the Invictus but still comparable to some of the mid-90's width skis from other manufacturers.

After lunch at the Mill we went to Atomic, where I took the Vantage 95 at 177cm. This is likely similar to the Alibi that I had in Austria 2 years ago when my skis were delayed arriving. I skied Drop Out 1 and then we decided to check out the backside, which I suspected might be softening nicely in the warm weather. The rain had compacted the snow, so Thursday's warmup produced corn perfection here:
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I was a little sluggish after lunch but perked up with that corn. We liked the Atomics but not quite as much as the Armadas.

Our final demo was Nordica. I had the Nrgy90 at 186cm. I skied Wipe Out 1 and then we had to have an encore of the backside corn. There were maybe 10 or so tracks out there near the boundary and we were responsible for 4 of them. Riding Chair 23 we finally noticed a Hulk action figure attached to one of the big rocks under the lift.
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Despite not being super wide and having a flat tail the Nrgy90 had quite a bit of early rise and was a quick turning ski despite the length. This was put to the test when we skied Scotty's from Chair 14. The strip of soft snow between ice patches is relatively narrow and required lots of short turns to maintain the best line.

We finished Wednesday with 24,800 vertical. It was a well-timed trip, a few days after the storm for Mammoth to groom the lower runs but before President's weekend crowds will likely chew up a lot of the lower mountain snow. Mammoth will ski like a typical May for intermediate cruisers, but most of the runs up top should remain good for quite a while.
 
It's obvious that Mammoth has great terrain and is quite large (for a North American ski area). :stir:

That said, is there ever a time before springtime when you're not battling the results of gale winds/rain on the lower mountain or other conditions-related issues? Admin has mentioned it numerous times too. Not trying to troll, just wondering if this is an anecdotal armchair observer thing. Whiteface has a similar EC rep: great in spring, otherwise volatile.
 
Bluebird weather , temps in the 40's ,endless corn and carvable snow..Sounds like this might be one of the best days of the season for you. It would be for me..It ain't all about powder..IMO
 
Rain is extremely rare at Mammoth. The Main Lodge patrol site averages 1/2 day of rain per season from Nov. 1 - Apr. 30. This was the second highest winter rain line in the 38 years I have skied Mammoth. And the more severe rain in 1997 fell on a deep snowpack and finished up with more snow to cover the ice.

Yes Sierra weather is volatile, but that can work both ways. How often has James had skiing like this in mid-November?
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In terms of overall conditions, I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I have a huge amount of historical data on Mammoth.
1) A 75th percentile season has 33 weeks of worthwhile skiing (that's driving from L.A. and paying lodging) and 20 weeks of full operation with majority packed powder conditions. That's similar to LCC's 75th percentile.
2) A 50th percentile season has 28 weeks of worthwhile skiing and 15 weeks of full operation with majority packed powder conditions. That's also similar to LCC's 50th percentile and slightly better than 2000-01 in Northern Vermont.
3) A 25th percentile season has 24 weeks of worthwhile skiing and 9 weeks of full operation with majority packed powder conditions. That's similar to an average Colorado area's 25th percentile.

2013-14 was the 4th worst Mammoth season in 48 years. It had 19 weeks of worthwhile skiing but only 4 of full operation with majority packed powder conditions. 2011-12 was the 6th worst season at 21/5. An average season in Northern Vermont is 19/6. An average season in Jackson Hole is 19/8. 2014-15 ended up at 21/0. The zero is because Mammoth never got more than 75% open. But December was the highest snow month so the "worthwhile season" began earlier than in 2011-12 or 2013-14. So the 4-year CA drought included Mammoth's 2nd, 4th and 6th worst seasons. #1, 3 and 5 are 1976-77, 1986-87 and 1975-76.

Obviously the deep powder skiing rarely compares to LCC. But it illustrates the point that compared to the vast majority of western ski areas, Mammoth has many more weeks with packed powder conditions. This is consistently true on the back end of the season, and the years with slow starts at Mammoth are offset by the years with wall-to-wall skiing in early December when most areas are less than half open.

The above analysis shows that Mammoth should be on the very short list of where one might want to live at a ski area full time. Does Jackson's world class terrain quality offset barely half the length of season vs. Mammoth's merely excellent terrain? You put terrain quality plus length of season with good conditions together, and LCC leads whoever is in second place by a country mile IMHO.

In terms of wind, it is on balance more a plus than minus to Mammoth's snow conditions.
1) The extra deposition of snow up top during storms, averaging 30% more than the patrol site according to Mammoth Snowman. This is why we can still ski the steeps in June/July of the big years when A-Basin has to shut down Pali mid-May with its more fragile snowpack.
2) The upper steeps being leeward of prevailing wind often pick up a layer of soft windsift during dry spells.
3) In spring the snow tends to sublimate with wind rather than melt on the surface, preserving dry winter snow well into April.

jamesdeluxe":dt43l1x6 said:
That said, is there ever a time before springtime when you're not battling the results of gale winds/rain on the lower mountain or other conditions-related issues?
The top is closed for wind about a quarter of the time. As long as the mid-mountain lifts 3, 5 and 22 are open, there is still plenty of good skiing. I don't know the closure rate for those lifts; I'd guess in the 5% range. James' question is a more serious issue at Mt. Bachelor, where the Summit lift serving ~half of terrain is closed about half the time before spring.

jasoncapecod":dt43l1x6 said:
Bluebird weather , temps in the 40's ,endless corn and carvable snow..Sounds like this might be one of the best days of the season for you. It would be for me..It ain't all about powder..IMO
These would have been average days at Mammoth in late April in terms of conditions. I skied exactly one run in two days that would not be open on a good Memorial Day.
 
You've made the early- and particularly late-season advantages clear. I was just wondering about mid-season, which you've addressed. That said, unless one can connect a Mammoth visit to a trip to CA for another reason, it doesn't make sense to fly to Mammoth from the East Coast. Of course, Patrick, desperate for shoulder-season turns, has figured out a second reason to go there.
:lol:
 
jamesdeluxe":33h2m482 said:
I was just wondering about mid-season, which you've addressed.
The key issue there is wind closure of lifts. You could say that 1/3 of terrain not being available 1/3 of the time works out to expecting ~90% of terrain available on any given day. At Bachelor where it's half not available half the time, that's an expectation of only 75% open on an average winter day.

I'm guessing weather closure of lifts/terrain in the Alps is worse than Mammoth and maybe not too far off Bachelor. Liz was skunked by weather for a whole week on her first Euro trip to Chamonix. My 3 days in Andermatt were similar, so I skied only one of them. This is the type of risk with which James is obviously familiar and willing to accept.

jamesdeluxe":33h2m482 said:
it doesn't make sense to fly to Mammoth from the East Coast.
From James' location I'd probably pick the Alps mid-season too. In April Mammoth is at or near the top of a short list for quality skiing. For those who don't think ski season ends at the spring equinox, it's worth the trouble of a destination trip. The occasional first time visitors to Mammoth from the East (like johnnash in 2006) are nearly always glad they made the effort.

James should also consider the effort when we have another early December like 2010 or 2012. My own skier day count at Mammoth reflects the early/late vs. mid-season bias.
Jan 54.5
Feb 30
Mar 35
Apr 76
May 63
Jun 14
Jul 12
Aug 2
Sep 1
Oct 1
Nov 13
Dec 39.5
The dip in Feb/Mar is not because Mammoth is unreliable but that it's the safest time for destination trips to other places.
 
Tony Crocker":y7ojau9g said:
The above analysis shows that Mammoth should be on the very short list of where one might want to live at a ski area full time. Does Jackson's world class terrain quality offset barely half the length of season vs. Mammoth's merely excellent terrain? You put terrain quality plus length of season with good conditions together, and LCC leads whoever is in second place by a country mile IMHO.
If someone were contemplating living at a ski area full time, the very first thing they should investigate is: what is it like living there when there's no skiing?
 
Tony Crocker":3s2r7p3p said:
I'm guessing weather closure of lifts/terrain in the Alps is worse than Mammoth and maybe not too far off Bachelor. Liz was skunked by weather for a whole week on her first Euro trip to Chamonix. My 3 days in Andermatt were similar, so I skied only one of them. This is the type of risk with which James is obviously familiar and willing to accept.
Even though my Alps visits obviously revolve around skiing, traveling across the pond for me -- after living there twice and being closely in touch with French- and German-language culture ever since -- is also like returning to a home away from home, similar to Q and his yearly Montana visits. Thus, while there is always some level of weather-related risk that may affect the skiing, it's not the only reason I'm going. While off topic to Mammoth, Marc C's comment about "what's it like besides the skiing?" applies to a certain degree, even if I'm only there for a week or so.
 
jamesdeluxe":1qiy0wai said:
Of course, Patrick, desperate for shoulder-season turns, has figured out a second reason to go there.
:lol:
My life doesn't make sense...if you take that into account, my trips to Mammoth made absolutely totally sense when I did them.

June 2005 (pre-streak) for some awesome milestone bday turns.
June/July 2006 for awesome Spring turns in a record (or near record) snow year and awesome last days of the season. There wasn't really a streak on the line at this point, it was just extending an my awesome season (which would eventually be part of Year One).
June/July 2010 for a father and daughter trip in another great snow year...and getting away from the crap dealing with the sudden passing of my mom.

That's it. The other Mammoth visit, however was a non-skiing vacation with the own family during our Northern California vacation in August 2012.

For the record, these 3 skiing trips in the year's I've done them made totally sense.

Check out the TR of the Califormia Dreaming trip.
https://madpatski.wordpress.com/2010/07 ... ly-5-2010/

The 2005 and 2006 TRs are also in FTO.
 
MarcC":2853fgwv said:
If someone were contemplating living at a ski area full time, the very first thing they should investigate is: what is it like living there when there's no skiing?
Tioga Pass and the quiet side of Yosemite National Park are an hour's drive from Mammoth. Patrick's TR link above is from the narrow time window when both Tioga Pass and the Mammoth Ski area are open.

Most people who move to ski resort towns are motivated at least somewhat by the convenient skiing, and surely it's better to have the lifts spinning close to half the year instead of barely a quarter of the year. I'd be quite annoyed in a place like Taos or Telluride where they shut the lifts first weekend of April with maximum snowpack and more powder days still to come.

While on the subject of non-ski activities, we arrived home after Thursday's skiing to nearly 90 degree temps at home. So here's a couple of pics of Liz and me from Friday.
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It will take good conditions at Baldy for me to do this on the same day as skiing like Adam did in January 2008.
 
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