Jackson Hole new tram - December 2008
- Thread starter Patrick
- Start date
This is clearly the direction things have been heading over the past 6 months. It became less likely that public funding would be available, but it was also evident that it would be damaging to the resort to be without a top-to-bottom lift for an extended period of time.
So the delay in planning ahead has only resulted in one extra season with no tram. With certainty of a new tram for 2008-09 I suspect Patrick would agree that ticket sales will be down considerably the next 2 seasons, with visits not only taken in advance in 2005-06 but also deferred to 2008-09.
I would continue to advise skiers to consider Jackson seriously next year with low attendance but continued patrol use of the tram. I would be more skeptical of the ensuing 2 seasons. 2007-08 will have delayed patrol access to the top. 2008-09 will see a spike in attendance, and if it's not a big snow year like 2005-06 everyone will try to use the new tram to get high, which even at 600 people per hour won't handle big crowds that well.
Send the old tram to Las Lenas! Not an entirely serious suggestion as it was the cables not the cabins that were nearing the end of their useful life.
So the delay in planning ahead has only resulted in one extra season with no tram. With certainty of a new tram for 2008-09 I suspect Patrick would agree that ticket sales will be down considerably the next 2 seasons, with visits not only taken in advance in 2005-06 but also deferred to 2008-09.
I would continue to advise skiers to consider Jackson seriously next year with low attendance but continued patrol use of the tram. I would be more skeptical of the ensuing 2 seasons. 2007-08 will have delayed patrol access to the top. 2008-09 will see a spike in attendance, and if it's not a big snow year like 2005-06 everyone will try to use the new tram to get high, which even at 600 people per hour won't handle big crowds that well.
Send the old tram to Las Lenas! Not an entirely serious suggestion as it was the cables not the cabins that were nearing the end of their useful life.
riverc0il
New member
as someone that thinks the words "wind hold" are the best two word combo in the english language, could it be advised that this is one of the best years coming up to visit jackson hole? how much hiking would have to be done from the highest lift to access the summit terrain? i have never been nor do i know the layout, but i would think for a modest hike, you would have some amazing terrain mostly to yourself. or is there an issue with no patrol means no avi bombs and what not making the area dangerous?
tirolerpeter
New member
I've been to Jackson Hole, but only in the summer time. If I manage to move to UT this winter I definitely plan to make a run up from SLC. Can't wait!
The later questions relating specifically to Utah have been relocated here: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=2200
The later questions relating specifically to Utah have been relocated here: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=2200
tirolerpeter":fdrnsfhx said:
You say that now.
Somewhere around here there is an old thread on skiing wanderlust. I used to love to travel around to ski, but since moving here 18 months ago that feeling more or less disappeared. I found it hard to convince myself to travel somewhere when some of the world's best skiing is 20 minutes away from home.
Now, some of the urge is coming back, and I'm sure that I would have felt differently if we had a crummy year, but trust me...it's something that a person could get used to.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":1md7x6so said:
Yes, however I might be wrong here, but that big rush for the last Tram will not be repeated by a big rush for the new Tram. The New Tram will be a novelty for sure and bring back a great top-to-bottom lift (a necessity for JH), but it will be there for many years to come so there won't be the same urgency to go.
An hockey analogy could be made for the last year of the Canadiens at the Montreal Forum (the mecca of hockey)(or Boston Garden, Maple Leaf garden) as being one of the last old arenas left in the NHL. Most big hockey fans across the league wanted to go before hockey would leave this shrine forever. The Molson Centre (new Forum) was the biggest and most modern arena in the NHL, but besides the novelty, it didn't have the history of the old Forum. Well the Tram had the same thing going for it. History, one of the classic lift in North America IMO, which is why the attraction for some of us was greater during the last year, especially people that weren't regular to Wyoming.
The new tram might become a great lift, but it won't have the history behind it.
Tony Crocker":1md7x6so said:
Without that easy top-to-bottom access (even if I didn't go many Tram rides due to the long wait), Jackson isn't as great IMO. Still a great place, but definitely a few notchs lower in my standings.
Admin":1md7x6so said:
So I won't repeat what I've said in that old thread. :wink: Although your backyard might have the best skiing in the world, after knowing the inside and out of the local hills, you'll want to explore, explore new places or revisit old ones. I like to see different places for time to time.
riverc0il":1md7x6so said:
I'm not sure what you're saying River? There will be a temporary double chair in place to access the summit. Are you talking when that double lift would be on "wind hold"?
If yes then;
1) I would expect that the Sublette Quad would also be on "wind hold" due to it exposure. Tony would probably know better that me on this as my JH experience is limited to only 4 days in one trip.
riverc0il":1md7x6so said:
2) I would think the hike from the top of Sublette would be pretty hard. Snow and wind, untracked. Not easy. If Sublette would also be closed, forget hiking to the summit from the top of thunder quad due to the cliff bands you would need to hike around. A hike / skinning up from the Bridget Gondola would probably be easier, but a long hard job.
Detailed ski map of summit. The gondola is just next to that first blue run on the top right side of the map.
http://www.jacksonhole.com/JacksonAsset ... us_map.jpg
tirolerpeter
New member
Admin":2zmkuwsl said:
The primary reasons for wanting to settle in the SLC area are the variety and quality of skiing opportunities created by the large number of areas that are "local" to the city. But, I do have a serious "Wanderlust" problem. I love exploring. That is why I plan on doing some exploring with SLC as the base. It doesn't have anything to do with the adequacy of the areas around SLC, it is just a "drive" to experience new stuff and places that I have. It is why I have traveled to or through over twenty countries on five continents, and visited all 50 States of the Union. I agree that I might not feel driven to explore the first year or two that I am in your area, but who knows? From your posting, it appears that "Wanderlust" is a chronic condition for some of us.
Rendezvous Bowl will have considerably more skier traffic with a chair up there than it did with the old tram. It will be interesting to see if the chair stays when the new tram goes in. Sublette is the most wind affected, much more than the tram. The new chair is being placed in the most sheltered part of Rendezvous, and I would doubt there would be many days when it would be closed and Sublette would be open.
I must reiterate that most skiers overemphasize the importance of the tram/Rendezvous. I had only one run up there in 3 days and did not lack for great skiing. The tram is most important to backcountry skiers who want to go out to Rock Springs, Cody Bowl, etc. I've read that many of them were doing 3 backcountry runs a day with the tram and will probably get only one without it.
I am of course in the wanderlust camp with 120 areas skied. But put economics into the equation, as admin has, and get an AltaBird pass so the marginal cost of daytrips to the world's finest skiing becomes practically zero. The logic must be compelling for many skiers. There are destination skiers who feel the same way. My friend Al Solish with the Iron Blosam timeshare since 1981 must have over half his lifetime skiing at just Snowbird.
I must reiterate that most skiers overemphasize the importance of the tram/Rendezvous. I had only one run up there in 3 days and did not lack for great skiing. The tram is most important to backcountry skiers who want to go out to Rock Springs, Cody Bowl, etc. I've read that many of them were doing 3 backcountry runs a day with the tram and will probably get only one without it.
I am of course in the wanderlust camp with 120 areas skied. But put economics into the equation, as admin has, and get an AltaBird pass so the marginal cost of daytrips to the world's finest skiing becomes practically zero. The logic must be compelling for many skiers. There are destination skiers who feel the same way. My friend Al Solish with the Iron Blosam timeshare since 1981 must have over half his lifetime skiing at just Snowbird.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":y32ln18r said:
I might be totally wrong, but I though that double was temporary?
Tony Crocker":y32ln18r said:
Thanks Tony, that's the impression I had.
Tony Crocker":y32ln18r said:
I know that the quality isn't in the same, but there are excellent skiers in Ottawa that almost exclusively ski one of the local ski areas and might do a few trip to Tremblant and maybe the same destination trip to Whistler (or another place) year after year. Some people are comfortable skiing always the same place, I like to see different places, maybe not to the point where i would ski much lesser quality (ie. repeating the big Eastern areas in New England versus never or rarely visited closer hills in the Laurentians or Townships in Quebec).
tirolerpeter
New member
I think at last count I have skied around 54 or 55 different areas. Why? Because like the guy who climbed Everest (I know, Sir Edmund Hillary) because they are there!
tirolerpeter":33u9xnaj said:
http://216.250.243.13/discus2/messages/2508/2753.html
That thread, of course, was from 2003. I'm in the 120s now.
tirolerpeter
New member
OK, I surrender. Like in real estate, location, location, location, makes a big difference. I doubt that I will catch up, but I know I will die trying!
There's now a separate topic underway for The Great Ski Area Count.
Further comments related to quantity and quality of areas skied have been relocated to that thread http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=2187 as of Aug. 21.
Further comments related to quantity and quality of areas skied have been relocated to that thread http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=2187 as of Aug. 21.
30-year Jackson resident Bob Peters says that the when the new tram goes in, the East Ridge chair will be relocated into the currently hike-to Crags area above Casper Bowl.
There were a couple of negative comments on Epic in response to Bob Peters' post about the lift relocation. What everyone always says about Alta in terms of having to traverse/hike/poke around to get to the goods applies even more at Jackson, which has an even more awkward lift system IMHO. I frankly expected more complaining from the Alta hard-core about the Collins HSQ. Maybe admin will tell me I just missed it.
There were a couple of negative comments on Epic in response to Bob Peters' post about the lift relocation. What everyone always says about Alta in terms of having to traverse/hike/poke around to get to the goods applies even more at Jackson, which has an even more awkward lift system IMHO. I frankly expected more complaining from the Alta hard-core about the Collins HSQ. Maybe admin will tell me I just missed it.
