alta 60 degrees today?????
- Thread starter hayduke
- Start date
Why, you don't like corn snow?
I highly doubt that it was 60 degrees on the hill today, for that would only be a couple of degrees warmer than the Salt Lake Valley was. Yesterday, for example, it was in the low 60s in the Valley, upper 40s at the base, and in the 30s on top. Yesterday was "top 10" according to the passholder parked next to me at Snowbird.
Remember that the Alta zip code is actually in Sandy, so many of the online weather services report Sandy temperatures in response to an Alta search query.
I highly doubt that it was 60 degrees on the hill today, for that would only be a couple of degrees warmer than the Salt Lake Valley was. Yesterday, for example, it was in the low 60s in the Valley, upper 40s at the base, and in the 30s on top. Yesterday was "top 10" according to the passholder parked next to me at Snowbird.
Remember that the Alta zip code is actually in Sandy, so many of the online weather services report Sandy temperatures in response to an Alta search query.
Frankly, I'm shocked. I never dreamed that the temperature gradient would've been that small today.
I'll be bumping into Tony and his friends this evening at Snowbird, for I left my camera last night in their condo. I'll be curious to find out what the surfaces were like today.
I'll be bumping into Tony and his friends this evening at Snowbird, for I left my camera last night in their condo. I'll be curious to find out what the surfaces were like today.
Yes it's toasty out there. Dry winter snow is confined to steep, high, north facing and shaded. Snowbird has MUCH more of this than anywhere else in Utah, for those deciding where to ski.
But the soft stuff is still fun skiing at the right time of day. It would be ridiculous to cancel a trip. It's all well covered, steep and exciting terrain included. There will only be a problem if it cools off but does not snow. But as I've said before, the next snowstorm is usually the cooling agent in Utah.
I would avoid the Park City areas and probably SnowBasin/PowMow too, as there will be lots of slop at their lower elevations. But the Cottonwood areas are good, unless you're one of those who think it's your birthright to ski packed powder all the time.
But the soft stuff is still fun skiing at the right time of day. It would be ridiculous to cancel a trip. It's all well covered, steep and exciting terrain included. There will only be a problem if it cools off but does not snow. But as I've said before, the next snowstorm is usually the cooling agent in Utah.
I would avoid the Park City areas and probably SnowBasin/PowMow too, as there will be lots of slop at their lower elevations. But the Cottonwood areas are good, unless you're one of those who think it's your birthright to ski packed powder all the time.
Marc_C
Active member
Here's the data snapshot before it becomes a lot harder to find on the web:
3-12-2007> Alta Base Hourly > 8,560'
Month Base
Day Hour Temp
-------------------------
3 11 2200 35.7
3 11 2300 35.7
3 11 2400 36.4
3 12 100 36.3
3 12 200 36.2
3 12 300 33.5
3 12 400 33.6
3 12 500 34.5
3 12 600 34.1
3 12 700 35.0
3 12 800 34.1
3 12 900 34.7
3 12 1000 37.3
3 12 1100 53.3
3 12 1200 57.4
3 12 1300 55.5
3 12 1400 58.0
3 12 1500 57.8
3 12 1600 56.8
3 12 1700 58.6
3 12 1800 54.3
3 12 1900 45.2
3 12 2000 42.1
3 12 2100 40.5
3 12 2200 39.6
3-12-2007> COLLINS TOP HOURLY REPORT > 10,500'
Month 10.5K
Day Hour Temp
-------------------------------------------------
3 11 2200 33.3
3 11 2300 32.5
3 11 2400 34.2
3 12 100 34.6
3 12 200 34.9
3 12 300 35.0
3 12 400 34.9
3 12 500 34.8
3 12 600 34.8
3 12 700 35.8
3 12 800 35.9
3 12 900 38.8
3 12 1000 42.2
3 12 1100 43.8
3 12 1200 46.6
3 12 1300 49.2
3 12 1400 51.8
3 12 1500 49.9
3 12 1600 50.1
3 12 1700 48.3
3 12 1800 47.7
3 12 1900 47.0
3 12 2000 42.7
3 12 2100 41.0
Now as far as cancellation of a trip....only if you're vastly unhappy skiing beautiful spring corn. Powder days are a dime a dozen here...the perfect spring days are the most fleeting and fondly remembered. Hint: follow the sun and stay high - don't even think of west aspects till after 2pm. Stay off the east aspects after 2:30p. Sleep in; the first hour (or more) of chair time is pointless - a 10:30a start is fine. High Rustler sucks at 11:30a - it's sublime at 4pm. If you're at Snowbird, don't bother with the front side till afternoon - head straight to Mineral Basin; or the Cirque, depending on temps and how much morning softening it's experienced. Pick a less committing line (eg: a segment of upper Primrose Path) that allows a bail-out to something easier in case it's still too crunchy and coral reef-like for comfort. If you booked a March trip, you have to have realized that spring conditions are a distinct possibility.
3-12-2007> Alta Base Hourly > 8,560'
Month Base
Day Hour Temp
-------------------------
3 11 2200 35.7
3 11 2300 35.7
3 11 2400 36.4
3 12 100 36.3
3 12 200 36.2
3 12 300 33.5
3 12 400 33.6
3 12 500 34.5
3 12 600 34.1
3 12 700 35.0
3 12 800 34.1
3 12 900 34.7
3 12 1000 37.3
3 12 1100 53.3
3 12 1200 57.4
3 12 1300 55.5
3 12 1400 58.0
3 12 1500 57.8
3 12 1600 56.8
3 12 1700 58.6
3 12 1800 54.3
3 12 1900 45.2
3 12 2000 42.1
3 12 2100 40.5
3 12 2200 39.6
3-12-2007> COLLINS TOP HOURLY REPORT > 10,500'
Month 10.5K
Day Hour Temp
-------------------------------------------------
3 11 2200 33.3
3 11 2300 32.5
3 11 2400 34.2
3 12 100 34.6
3 12 200 34.9
3 12 300 35.0
3 12 400 34.9
3 12 500 34.8
3 12 600 34.8
3 12 700 35.8
3 12 800 35.9
3 12 900 38.8
3 12 1000 42.2
3 12 1100 43.8
3 12 1200 46.6
3 12 1300 49.2
3 12 1400 51.8
3 12 1500 49.9
3 12 1600 50.1
3 12 1700 48.3
3 12 1800 47.7
3 12 1900 47.0
3 12 2000 42.7
3 12 2100 41.0
Now as far as cancellation of a trip....only if you're vastly unhappy skiing beautiful spring corn. Powder days are a dime a dozen here...the perfect spring days are the most fleeting and fondly remembered. Hint: follow the sun and stay high - don't even think of west aspects till after 2pm. Stay off the east aspects after 2:30p. Sleep in; the first hour (or more) of chair time is pointless - a 10:30a start is fine. High Rustler sucks at 11:30a - it's sublime at 4pm. If you're at Snowbird, don't bother with the front side till afternoon - head straight to Mineral Basin; or the Cirque, depending on temps and how much morning softening it's experienced. Pick a less committing line (eg: a segment of upper Primrose Path) that allows a bail-out to something easier in case it's still too crunchy and coral reef-like for comfort. If you booked a March trip, you have to have realized that spring conditions are a distinct possibility.
Yeah... so most mtn weather stations aren't 'aspirated', which basically means there's no fan to move the air through the housing for the thermometer. The 'thermoshack' can get much hotter than the actual free air temperature. The alta base stations and even the mid mtn collins station are notorious for this, especially in the spring. It's better to look at the top of collins station or the mt baldy station, and try to interpolate downward. These stations usually have enough wind to keep the air moving through them. Another strategy is to use the solitude station, which is usually more realistic.
base stations:
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=atb
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=agd
collins mid mtn:
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=cln
top of collins:
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=alt
top of mt badly
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=amb
solitude
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=sol
base stations:
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=atb
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=agd
collins mid mtn:
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=cln
top of collins:
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=alt
top of mt badly
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=amb
solitude
http://www.met.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/ ... gi?stn=sol
There is a standing joke among our Iron Blosam group to get the T-shirts and sunscreen out when I am there, and get ready for it to dump when I leave.
Since I do have strong impressions of it being warm on my March Utah trips, I decided to look it up. Updates after 2007 in italics. I have skied 3-4 days in LCC during Week 10 [date range March 5-18] for 12 of the past 13 years. Before that I had one trip at the same time in 1981 and 4 trips (1986, 1989, 1990 and 1994) in late March.
5 of the 11 Iron Blosam trips and 3 of the late March trips fit the pattern of this year: started out mostly packed powder, sometimes with a few scraps of fresh, but ended warm with no more than 30% of Snowbird still packed powder. In 1998 and 2004 the hot weather was enough to trigger wet slides that temporarily blocked the LCC road. Snowbird has by far the best snow preservation in Utah. It is safe to say that in all of these 8 years (half of the trips total) most of the snow at the Park City areas would have been slop by the end of my trip. What is strange, and thus cautionary in terms of drawing conclusions, is that none of my 11 Iron Blosam trips started out with the warm weather and spring conditions. The 1990 late March trip was springlike the first day; that's why it was the other time I climbed Baldy and skied Main Chute. It snowed a few inches the next day and went back to spring after that.
2 trips (1996 Iron Blosam and 1989 late March) trip started with considerable new snow and ended with Snowbird about half spring conditions.
3 Iron Blosam trips plus the 1981 trip had minimal new snow but were cool enough to stay mostly packed powder all 4 days.
2 Iron Blosam trips had about a foot of new snow sometime during the 4 days.
2006 at the Iron Blosam and 2002 (the year I missed, naturally) were powderfests with multiple dumps.
Conclusions:
1) Trust long term data over personal experience, even 17 years of it. LCC averages 90 inches of new snow in March, so the odds of powder are as good as any time. And the base is ALWAYS adequate, even in 1977. My Iron Blosam group has never seen the early season base situation which makes Alta ski much better than Snowbird. And they have seen a lot of the warm weather which makes Snowbird preferable to Alta.
2) If it doesn't snow Utah is usually warm enough in March that you will see a transition to spring conditions in just a few days. If you don't like that, come in January or February. I do not recommend staying in Park City later than mid-March because when it's good spring skiing in the Cottonwoods, it's much slushier at Park City.
3) If a packed powder surface is a higher priority for you than fresh snow, there are several Colorado resorts (Aspen, Copper, A-Basin, Crested Butte, Telluride, probably Taos in New Mexico also) that preserve snow better than anyone in Utah. Also, Adam was at Mammoth last weekend in similar warm weather, and he reports that the top of the mountain plus chairs 3 and 5 still retain dry winter snow. This is at least 1/3 of Mammoth's terrain, vs. the 10-15% of Snowbird that has not yet turned to spring conditions. And you need to be comfortable with steeps and trees to get at that 10-15% at Snowbird.
Since I do have strong impressions of it being warm on my March Utah trips, I decided to look it up. Updates after 2007 in italics. I have skied 3-4 days in LCC during Week 10 [date range March 5-18] for 12 of the past 13 years. Before that I had one trip at the same time in 1981 and 4 trips (1986, 1989, 1990 and 1994) in late March.
5 of the 11 Iron Blosam trips and 3 of the late March trips fit the pattern of this year: started out mostly packed powder, sometimes with a few scraps of fresh, but ended warm with no more than 30% of Snowbird still packed powder. In 1998 and 2004 the hot weather was enough to trigger wet slides that temporarily blocked the LCC road. Snowbird has by far the best snow preservation in Utah. It is safe to say that in all of these 8 years (half of the trips total) most of the snow at the Park City areas would have been slop by the end of my trip. What is strange, and thus cautionary in terms of drawing conclusions, is that none of my 11 Iron Blosam trips started out with the warm weather and spring conditions. The 1990 late March trip was springlike the first day; that's why it was the other time I climbed Baldy and skied Main Chute. It snowed a few inches the next day and went back to spring after that.
2 trips (1996 Iron Blosam and 1989 late March) trip started with considerable new snow and ended with Snowbird about half spring conditions.
3 Iron Blosam trips plus the 1981 trip had minimal new snow but were cool enough to stay mostly packed powder all 4 days.
2 Iron Blosam trips had about a foot of new snow sometime during the 4 days.
2006 at the Iron Blosam and 2002 (the year I missed, naturally) were powderfests with multiple dumps.
Conclusions:
1) Trust long term data over personal experience, even 17 years of it. LCC averages 90 inches of new snow in March, so the odds of powder are as good as any time. And the base is ALWAYS adequate, even in 1977. My Iron Blosam group has never seen the early season base situation which makes Alta ski much better than Snowbird. And they have seen a lot of the warm weather which makes Snowbird preferable to Alta.
2) If it doesn't snow Utah is usually warm enough in March that you will see a transition to spring conditions in just a few days. If you don't like that, come in January or February. I do not recommend staying in Park City later than mid-March because when it's good spring skiing in the Cottonwoods, it's much slushier at Park City.
3) If a packed powder surface is a higher priority for you than fresh snow, there are several Colorado resorts (Aspen, Copper, A-Basin, Crested Butte, Telluride, probably Taos in New Mexico also) that preserve snow better than anyone in Utah. Also, Adam was at Mammoth last weekend in similar warm weather, and he reports that the top of the mountain plus chairs 3 and 5 still retain dry winter snow. This is at least 1/3 of Mammoth's terrain, vs. the 10-15% of Snowbird that has not yet turned to spring conditions. And you need to be comfortable with steeps and trees to get at that 10-15% at Snowbird.