Mammoth, May 29-31, 2010

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
Mammoth had a fairly steady diet in May of the abnormally cold weather Admin reported Saturday, supposedly coldest May on record in parts of California. Most of the 18 inches of new snow in May came in dribs and drabs, so the locals were not too pleased with conditions. Fortunately the month ended on a more pleasant note. Thursday's final storm was 5 inches of Sierra Cement, which covered the underlying snow well in most places. Friday remained cold and the top opened around noon. Our first day Saturday was the start of the long delayed spring warm-up. The good news is that the base has hardly dropped at at all since I was last at Mammoth 6 weeks earlier. Here's the Main Lodge with the sundeck still accessible from the snow.
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At mid-station the snowpack is even with the top of the stairs, same as 6 weeks ago and late May of 2006. July 4th should be similar to 4 and 5 years ago as the unusually cold spring has offset the lower water content of this year's snowpack vs. those seasons.

Adam and I arrived at the chair 2 parking lot about 8:30AM but it was already full and we parked across the road. By late morning the parking was all the way down to Chair 4, and fortunately Mammoth anticipated the crowd and ran Chair 4 Saturday and Sunday as well as the previously announced additions of chairs 5 and 10. Although there were lots of tracks from Friday afternoon we headed up the gondola to check out Thursday's new snow. This day proved to be a thorough test of the Black Diamond Verdicts I had just used for a few runs in April. The snow in the morning was still dry winter snow, but it was very thick with tracks and also some wind effect. The Verdicts handled this snow well as long as you made rounded turns and kept your speed up. But with the effort required I would run often out of breath and have to take a break or two.

We started with the gondola and Dave's run as 23 wasn't open yet, then down to chair 5, which had not been running for a few weeks though most of its terrain was accessible. Next time up Chair 2, 23 was open so we skied Wipe Out. The steep upper part was soft packed powder, but lower down enough of it had been skied that I would occasionally hit the old hard snow underneath. Adam was skiing fast enough that he rarely came in contact with the hardpacked base. Next time up 23 we headed out to Paranoid 2, which skied somewhat softer due to less traffic.

When we were on Chair 5 Adam had spied some skiers in Heuvos Grande and wanted to go back there to check it out. Huevos is the last notch opening at left center. Later we saw a few people thread their way through some narrow openings in Top of the World at upper right.
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Adam skiing Huevos Grande.
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Snow was stiff on the steep upper section but thick powder below that. We skied similar snow through Dry Creek. Adam wanted an encore, but my legs were screaming so I took a mellower line through Rockgarden while he hit Huevos again. At this point I needed to ski a couple of groomers before we took a last shot at May chowder on Roger's Ridge before meeting some Mammoth Forum people at the Mill Cafe (base of Chairs 2 & 10) for lunch at noon.

After lunch I skied with a couple of the Mammoth Forum people while Adam skied with his friends who had partied into the wee hours and were late getting on the hill. Two more runs on chair 23: Drop Out was mostly soft packed powder, and Monument was my last shot at less consolidated snow for the day. The mid and lower mountain had all softened in the high sun (temps in upper 40's) but skiing was still good to the closing bell (3PM, take note Mt. Bachelor :stir: ) on runs with less traffic such as Terry's and the race course runs under Chair 1. I met Adam and went up the gondola one last time. Here he drops into Hangman's:
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His turns above the throat were quite noisy, so I took the easy way down Cornice given both my fatigue and that the Verdicts much prefer softer snow. Final run of the day in still not sticky spring snow was Christmas/Coyote. 25,200 vertical including about 2K of new Sierra Cement.

Saturday at ~5:30 several of us from Mammoth Forum met for dinner at the Whoa Nellie Deli (open late April through October), which is in the Mobil station at the intersection of Hwy 395 and the Tioga Road into Yosemite. Not like any gas station food you've ever seen before (pics bottom of first page): http://forums.mammothmountain.com/viewt ... =14&t=7264. Don't miss this if you take a daytrip from Mammoth to Yosemite or Mono Lake.

Sunday and Monday were in full spring mode. We were on the hill at 8:45 but needed to stay on the groomers until the off-trail stuff softened. Even the upper part of Stump Alley was firm on the first run. Fortunately we had noticed Chair 4 open the day before so we headed over there, where the 2 groomers were already in corn mode by 9AM. After 3 more groomers on Chairs 3 and 5 we met a large contingent of the Mammoth Forum, who were skiing in "retro" costume for the Chair 2 parking lot potluck at 2PM. Here's one of the group photos at the top of the mountain.
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I was not planning to do a lot of runs from the top as my legs were still fatigued and I knew a lot of the snow would be in that awkward stage between powder and skier packed spring conditions. But I recalled from 1995 that if there's enough snowpack the backside can have some excellent corn cruising. Some of the other Forum people had the same thought so several of us headed down Roadrunner. At 10:30 the upper off-piste was still firm though smooth enough to ski OK while Roadrunner itself was in peak corn mode. We stopped partway down Roadrunner to admire the view plus a lone track that had tempted somebody below the road into a sector that requires hiking out.
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I knew that the off trail was going to improve and thus took 2 more laps. Here's the deserted upper snowfield that was at its best around noon:
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I had learned from local Lance Meyer back in 1980 that it's possible to drop below part of the Roadrunner boundary for a short section of pristine corn, then hit a moderate Alta-type traverse to merge back to the road lower down. Here's the view back to a few tracks in that corn:
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With the warming weather and busy holiday traffic the snow got heavy earlier than on Saturday. They were out grooming and salting though, and I was fortunate to hit St. Anton right after the groomer had made a pass. However, I was tired and quit at 1:30 after 20,600 vertical to help set up the potluck. Posts and pictures from the potluck start on page 18 of this thread: http://forums.mammothmountain.com/viewt ... &start=255. We left about 4PM and I went back to Adam's ski house and I took a 3+ hour nap.

Monday was typical great Mammoth spring skiing. About 2/3 of the holiday visitors don't ski the last day, so the snow stays good longer with the greatly reduced traffic. Also, up top a lot of the chowder had been skier packed on Sunday. After the usual early morning cruisers we met a much smaller Mammoth Forum group at 10AM. We skied Climax, and then only Christian, who is in school at UC Santa Cruz, skied with us after that. Next was a nicely smoothed out Dave's Run, and since it was around 11AM I then decided to show our northern California visitor the backside corn run. Then we took our last upper run on Drop Out 2 from Chair 23:
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I cut skier's left below that to the top of the course through Gremlin's Gulch where the racers had just finished. Here's the top of the course about 11:30 where I'm about to hit the barely touched corn:
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For the park aficionados, Mammoth built a jump with an air mattress landing for people to try out their new tricks. I think they charged a flat $40 signup fee to use it while it was open from May 21-31.
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I was off the hill by noon after another 16,700 vertical and home by 6PM. Christian and his dad were staying for Tuesday also as tseeb had originally planned. I'm sure they would say that the extra drive was well worth it vs. the limited slop at Squaw and Donner. FYI Sonora Pass but not Tioga opened over the weekend.
 
I'll echo your trip report except that I can't imagine someone not being happy with the skiing on Friday. 6-10 inches of fresh snow on a spongy base, 23 degree temps, and a little wind buffing things out all day made for a great day. I would definitely not call it cement either, it was about 18 degrees out on Thurday around midnight when I got in and only 20 when i got to the mountain on Friday morning. The wind kept temps cool (downright cold at times) and the snow pretty fluffy. Also, it appeared Mammoth didn't do any grooming Thursday night so all the groomers were powder runs. Oh, and there was positively no one there. I'd say one of my top 5 days of the season (remember I was injured late January-April).

I couldn't believe how busy the mountain was on Sat/Sunday. We got a late start after some drinking on Saturday night and all the lots were full by 10am and by 1030am I couldn't find anything even at the first parking shuttle spot (H I think). Last year I'd be surprised if there was even half as many people. Good for business and good for us skiers looking for them to continue going late in the season.

Some pictures below

Some great turns on the groomers early in the day, this is the run below Stump Alley, you can see that the groomer had only gotten one run up the hill at this point on the right side of the picture.
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Not sure where this is but it was nice
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You can see the wind buffed away all the tracks by the afternoon up on Chair 3.
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I had seen Mammoth Forum pics from Friday. Since we weren't hitting much old refrozen snow even on Saturday morning, I have little doubt that it must have skied very nicely while cold and untracked on Friday.
 
By the way, I think you made the right call skipping Hangmans when you did. It was nice on Friday after the top section which was actually icy, but pretty skied off by Sat/Sun.
 
A couple of the Forum people said Hangman's was good Saturday morning, but all our morning gondola runs were to the east where we thought there there would be fewer people.
 
looks like a beautiful weekend - but there's moguls in some of these pictures - i haven't skied moguls in eight weeks (obviously alot more traffic....) nice group photo
 
It does look better than what I got closer to Tahoe, but it would have been a long trip solo. Maybe next year....
 
tseeb":1v418ond said:
It does look better than what I got closer to Tahoe
Not even close. Mt. Baldy on May 1 was better than that report from Donner.

BobbyD":1v418ond said:
(obviously a lot more traffic....)
That might have something to do with why Mammoth is running 7 days a week. Or is open at all in June/July. We encourage late season visitors like Patrick so the bean counters won't be tempted to emulate some former late season competitors. And once the hot weather sets in for awhile it's better to have skier packed lines than suncups.
 
Tony Crocker":ds4wqo2r said:
We encourage late season visitors like Patrick so the bean counters won't be tempted to emulate some former late season competitors.

Since when do you work for mammoth? "We"? Sorry, but had to call you on that one.

Bobby Danger":ds4wqo2r said:
or more population to draw from

Not buying it. You have ~1.7M people in the SLC combined statistical area. And with the snow conditions they could easily market for race teams for early summer on-snow or etc... too. Given the many skiers within the SLC metro as a % of population there ought to be at least one ski area open full time IMO. The Cali skiers all have to drive 4-6 hours to get to Mammoth. That is a fairly big hurdle (esp in May/June) even if their population base is bigger. Denver is a bit bigger than SLC at ~3.1M CSA though with only one ski area open (though at least every day till it closes). Just IMHO of course, but given the huge growth in SLC over the last decade or two, it does surprise me.
 
EMSC":1xeiy3hu said:
Since when do you work for Mammoth? "We"? Sorry, but had to call you on that one.
"We" means the SoCal ski community. We know that there are financial issues because Starwood overpaid for Mammoth in 2006 based upon peak skier visit numbers and the real estate bubble. Therefore ongoing robust attendance is important to maintain Mammoth's late season tradition.

I haven't seen numbers but the strong impression is that there were more people than last Memorial weekend, which recorded 8,000+ skier visits. Lift lines were not an issue with the 2 stage gondola and 9 chairs (7 of them high speed) running. But if you got up there late Saturday or Sunday the parking stretched 2-3 miles down the road from the Main Lodge.

EMSC":1xeiy3hu said:
And with the snow conditions they could easily market for race teams for early summer on-snow or etc... too.
This is important. Mammoth does great business Memorial Day and July 4th holidays and OK business the other weekends, but of course it's deserted midweek in May/June. So they work hard to get race teams in there even though it's quite variable year-to-year how far into June they will have enough snow. This is what I really don't get about Mt. Bachelor. They have far better terrain/exposure for race training than Timberline but don't make any effort to compete with them.

As I've mentioned before, Mammoth does have some advantages with its SoCal population base.
1) We can indulge most summer sports year-round, so I suspect the impulse to abandon skiing for other recreation is lower than in Denver or SLC, not to mention NYC and Boston (note rfarren comments lately).
2) Lots of people come up and ski one morning, then hike, mountain bike, fish, etc. the rest of the weekend.
 
Tony Crocker":31q0fesv said:
I haven't seen numbers but the strong impression is that there were more people than last Memorial weekend, which recorded 8,000+ skier visits.

I'll chime in with some numbers for you Tony.

Friday expected 699, actual 1665
Saturday expected 2026, actual 5764
Sunday exepcted 2692, actual 5938
Monday expected 1563, actual 2973

expected 6980
actual 16340

Mammoth is having one of their strongest Mays ever in terms of skier numbers.
 
How do those numbers compare to an average non holiday weekend in say, Jan and April? Curious because it felt much more crowded than my weekend at the end of April (after canyon closed).

Edit to add, I didn't realize there were that many people on the mountain on Friday, sure didn't feel like it.
 
socal":2wmgw0bu said:
How do those numbers compare to an average non holiday weekend in say, Jan and April? Curious because it felt much more crowded than my weekend at the end of April (after canyon closed).

Edit to add, I didn't realize there were that many people on the mountain on Friday, sure didn't feel like it.

First weekend after canyon closed.
Friday 23-Apr-10 projected 2,604 actual 3,812
Saturday 24-Apr-10 projected 6,049 actual 6,413
Sunday 25-Apr-10 projected 4,655 actual 5,150

Non-Holiday January weekend.
Friday 29-Jan-10 projected 10,492 actual 10,415
Saturday 30-Jan-10 projected 15,002 actual 16,390
Sunday 31-Jan-10 projected 9,790 actual 12,986
 
socal":5oktj7rf said:
Edit to add, I didn't realize there were that many people on the mountain on Friday, sure didn't feel like it.

Sure wouldn't feel like it, thats about a person per acre of open terrain.
 
Tony Crocker":1r3pfe2i said:
As I've mentioned before, Mammoth does have some advantages with its SoCal population base.
1) We can indulge most summer sports year-round, so I suspect the impulse to abandon skiing for other recreation is lower than in Denver or SLC, not to mention NYC and Boston (note rfarren comments lately).
2) Lots of people come up and ski one morning, then hike, mountain bike, fish, etc. the rest of the weekend.

#1 is highly and somewhat surprisingly variable here in Colo. Some years Denver area has great weather for golf, biking, etc... throughout much of the winter, while the mtns are still getting robust snows and great skiing (I've eaten lunch very comfortably outdoors during Jan while the central mtns were getting snow for one example). Other years (like this one), spring is quite cool and either snowy or rainy in Denver adding to the anticipation of summer sports.

#2 I've never figured out why more front rangers don't do this in Colo. They either day trip the skiing to A-basin or avoid the mtns altogether from early April until mid-June. Yet I've had some great great ski race camps of skiing mixed with MTB, hiking, dryland games etc.. in the central mtns during late May and early June when it's virtually deserted throughout the mtns. Last opportunity for that was my abbreviated 2007 coaching gig where I didn't even mention the hiking, rollerblading and dryland parts of the weekend. http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3218 Much better trips than just golfing or biking along the front range.

snowboard247":1r3pfe2i said:
I'll chime in with some numbers for you

Who does the projecting part of things? Marketing? OPS? How frequently updated and how far into the future do they try to look?
 
EMSC":1payfr0t said:
snowboard247":1payfr0t said:
I'll chime in with some numbers for you

Who does the projecting part of things? Marketing? OPS? How frequently updated and how far into the future do they try to look?

Its budgeted numbers, so its probably a mix of finance, operations, and historical skier numbers. They do it at the beginning of the season, and then if we are way off (positively, or negatively) they will re-assess and come up with adjusted numbers for the remainder of the season.
 
98% of the general public in the valley don't have a clue as to what's even up those canyons or that there's even anything going on up there !! the majority of the skiing people up there has relocated from other points on the map. so to advertise their open at least locally would become a huge strain on late season budget .... and yes probably 99% of the public lives within a single hours drive .... i personally live twenty five min. sofa to tram and that's not breaking speed records . now why snowbird doesn't inject it's self into the cali. mrkt. is beyond me !!! if you have people driveing 4 to 6 hours to get to mammoth i don't understand why snowbird doesn't look to bite a chunk of that population off ... i'm not sure of airline fees from southern cal. to salt lake but it can't be too outlandish ... it's only one hour fifteen min. flight time l.a. to s.l.c. commuter flight i've taken that flight myself in the reverse direction and ounce one lands here it's fourty five min. airport to ski area .... your still going to be hours ahead of driving to mammoth . i only applaude mammoth for being aggressive in late season dollar chasing if they have conditions that warrent chasing a few bucks ... because a tourist here or there from the east coast isn't gonna do diddly for mammoths or snowbirds books you must have a large population base to draw from... betting that more than three quarters of the skiing public at mammoth last weekend was from some destination in that state. personally i don't beleive snowbird gives a rats ass about trying to make late season bucks - this time of year it's about us locals and we deeply appreciate the bird doing what they do - there could be more but for the most part you won't here alot of bitching . except from the trust funders they always bitch and there's a boat load here .... :stir: :stir:
 
EMSC":23ak3iiu said:
Bobby Danger":23ak3iiu said:
or more population to draw from

Not buying it. You have ~1.7M people in the SLC combined statistical area. And with the snow conditions they could easily market for race teams for early summer on-snow or etc... too. Given the many skiers within the SLC metro as a % of population there ought to be at least one ski area open full time IMO. The Cali skiers all have to drive 4-6 hours to get to Mammoth. That is a fairly big hurdle (esp in May/June) even if their population base is bigger. Denver is a bit bigger than SLC at ~3.1M CSA though with only one ski area open (though at least every day till it closes). Just IMHO of course, but given the huge growth in SLC over the last decade or two, it does surprise me.
It's not that surprising at all.

1) Quite simply, there just aren't as many skiers as you think there are in the Wasatch Front.
2) The "SLC combined statistical area" figure of 1.7M runs from Provo to Ogden - the SLC metro/suburban area (aka the salt lake valley) is only about 1M. Many folks outside the valley, particularly Ogden, won't make the trip to LCC. Once Snowbasin closes, they're done. Same with a large percentage of the folks on the Wasatch Back (Park City, Heber, Coalville, etc.).
3) A */huge/* percentage of the skiing base stops skiing in early April and pursues other activities. A lot of locals don't like spring conditions.
4) A surprisingly large number of self identified "skiers" ski less than 10 days a season.
 
MarcC":3clzt3pd said:
Quite simply, there just aren't as many skiers as you think there are in the Wasatch Front.
I think that's right. The prevailing impression is that not that many of the Mormons ski. LDS are about half of that 1 million in metro SLC and probably 80+% of the rest of Utah.

Bobby Danger":3clzt3pd said:
now why snowbird doesn't inject it's self into the cali. mrkt. is beyond me !!! if you have people driveing 4 to 6 hours to get to mammoth i don't understand why snowbird doesn't look to bite a chunk of that population off ...
Actually they do (Utah skiing in general that is). I'm Exhibit A. I've skied 12 days in Utah this season and 14 last year vs. 11 at Mammoth this year (one more likely) and 15 last year. I haven't skied Tahoe at all since 2005. I thought I read once that SoCal makes up 30% of Utah's out-of-state skier visits.

Bobby Danger":3clzt3pd said:
i'm not sure of airline fees from southern cal. to salt lake but it can't be too outlandish ...
The "deals" are in the $150 range. $250 is more common. Put more than one person in the car and Mammoth is going to be much cheaper most of the time.

The other relevant point, as we've discussed many times here, is that getting on an airplane generally requires an advance commitment several weeks ahead. Snowbird's conditions in late April onwards with its minimal slope maintenance are feast or famine, and obviously you have no clue when you book your flight whether you'll get the epic powder of April 29 - May 2, unconsolidated mashed potatoes or the refrozen conditions admin had last Saturday. Mammoth's spring conditions are more consistent, and furthermore with a bed base capacity for peak winter holidays there's no problem getting last minute lodging in late season, usually at a discount price. It's easy to bail out of a post-Easter weekend on a few days notice if the weather forecast is unfavorable.

Bobby Danger":3clzt3pd said:
i only applaude mammoth for being aggressive in late season dollar chasing if they have conditions that warrant chasing a few bucks ...
Mammoth's late season is well entrenched among dedicated skiers. There were just as many people up there in late May of 1978 or 1982 as I see now.

Bobby Danger":3clzt3pd said:
betting that more than three quarters of the skiing public at mammoth last weekend was from some destination in that state.
90% SoCal for Mammoth's entire season. As noted on other posts Mammoth doesn't draw that much from northern California even though there's a huge disparity in conditions in late season. They have to drive 7-8 hours through Tahoe or Kirkwood until the Tioga Road opens. And of course the seasons like this one when Memorial weekend skiing is at its best tend to be the same ones when Tioga isn't open yet.
 
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