A touch of Utah advice

[salida]

Yo guys, Just got into town. Looking for some advice on where to head tomorrow before the snow looks to arrive on wed-fri...

 

[Admin]

See my report from yesterday, and Tony will surely pipe in with today's report from Snowbird. North-facing stuff has stayed nicely dry. LCC or BCC should therefore be good on north-facing aspects. Sun has been softening east, west and south-facing. If you're looking for groomed the PC areas or Snowbasin should be fine. Pow Mow is likely largely heavy snow, but that's a guess.

Call me later this week for this weekend.

 

[icelanticskier]

go skinnin. no nead to buy a ticket out there to ski tracked snow. drive up bcc and look up and around, park the car at a trailhead and explore. you'll find good snow somewhere, just stay off of southerly aspects. if it's dumpin, pay the piper.
have fun
rog

 

[Marc_C]

go skinnin. no nead to buy a ticket out there to ski tracked snow. drive up bcc and look up and around, park the car at a trailhead and explore. you'll find good snow somewhere, just stay off of southerly aspects.

That's really excellent advice. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[icelanticskier]

go skinnin. no nead to buy a ticket out there to ski tracked snow. drive up bcc and look up and around, park the car at a trailhead and explore. you'll find good snow somewhere, just stay off of southerly aspects.

That's really excellent advice. :roll: :roll: :roll:

do you have better advice marc? share it. will he find better snow at the resort with no new snow than the b.c.? i think not. but what do i know as i haven't spent much time out there.

nice thing about the wasatch is the b.c. is super user friendly and as long as you have a bit of snow savyness and can follow a skin track in and back out you should be good to go.

roll yer eyes all you want ya transient pivot skiddah!

 

[Tony Crocker]

The weather pattern has been superficially similar to many of my other Iron Blosam trips, with soft leftover pow at the beginning but sunny after that. But it has not been so warm this year. On Monday it was still winter snow right to the bottom of Gad Valley and Peruvian, and also in about half of Mineral Basin. I'd say a good 85% of total terrain. Why, even Alta was probably 60+% winter snow despite all the east and west aspects .

Today was cloudy in early morning but started to warm up in the afternoon. In Mineral Basin east was still winter and south was very good, not sticky, spring snow. The bottom of Gad Valley and Peruvian softened up too. Maybe 70% packed powder now.

No guarantees on other Utah resorts. It could well be spring everywhere below 8,500-9,000 feet. But according to admin this will all be academic after the storms expected over the weekend.

 

[tirolerpeter]

I got up to Snowbird a little after 11 AM today. Conditions were just as Tony described. I did a couple of circuits in and out of Mineral Basin (Went in via the Tunnel) and found some nice soft aspects that were very comfortable to ski. Temps were pretty high, but except for right down near the Gad parking lot, the snow did not get sticky at all. I definitely got a head start on my tan!

 

[Admin]

Why, even Alta was probably 60+% winter snow despite all the east and west aspects .

Nice try. ctmoneymgr, care to correct our wayward Mr. Crocker? I don't think he'll mind if I quote a bit from his email as it was in fact sent to a (different) public forum:

I also debuted my new Volkl Mantras, but was beginning to regret it after seeing the packed powder and generally firm snow conditions on the mountain. It was a glorious day, with abundent sunshine, and I negotiated quite a few runs between 11 am-2pm, with a brief bite to eat in between. Warm-ups on Mambo and Ballroom, followed by nice, loose crud lines down Harold's and Tombstone below the Baldy Shoulder, a crusty run down Santa Claus Alley in West Rustler, and a couple of quick runs thru Wildcat Bowl/Rock Gully and High Collins, before I was finally beginning to feel comfortable with the Mantras. After admiring a number of decent skiers in the chutes, I needed a final test to see if my technique was up to snuff. So after getting off the Collins quad, I made a quick run down the access gate for Glory Hole, and managed a fairly successful, soft snow run down Triple By Pass and onward down Glory Gulch to the Sugarloaf quad.

Adding to that,

The snow was a bit chalky on top, but soft and lucious in the midde and lower portions.

 

[Marc_C]

go skinnin. no nead to buy a ticket out there to ski tracked snow. drive up bcc and look up and around, park the car at a trailhead and explore. you'll find good snow somewhere, just stay off of southerly aspects.

That's really excellent advice. :roll: :roll: :roll:

do you have better advice marc? share it. will he find better snow at the resort with no new snow than the b.c.? i think not.

At the moment, no, not likely. Because of the good snow stability, low avi danger, and nice weather, the b/c is just as tracked out as the resorts. And after the recent warmth, just as soggy and crust laden. Thus the more heavily skied lines are skiing better than the un or only lightly touched, as the extra traffic at the resorts has pounded the crud into submission.

While recommending to "just find a trailhead and skin track and explore" might yield some fun, most people come here on a ski trip (usually of limited duration) to maximize skiing, not slogging time, and the OP gave no indication that they were looking for b/c. If you're gonna recommend the b/c, at least point them to the guidbooks and maps available at REI, BD, Kirkham's, etc. or suggest a guide service so they have a good time and not kill themselves.

More importantly, suggesting just hacking around in the b/c without knowing the poster's avi awareness knowledge and whether they have the gear borders on irresponsibility.

nice thing about the wasatch is the b.c. is super user friendly and as long as you have a bit of snow savyness and can follow a skin track in and back out you should be good to go.

Which pretty much guarantees that they'll reach mostly tracked out slopes.

 

[Tony Crocker]

a fairly successful, soft snow run down Triple By Pass and onward down Glory Gulch to the Sugarloaf quad.

Sounds like Mineral Basin. I like the nice spring snow as much as anybody, but we know what those were like yesterday after it clouded over.

a crusty run down Santa Claus Alley in West Rustler

I'll stand by the 60+% comment. We had outstanding end-of-the-day runs on the long fall line of South Chute at Snowbird on both Tuesday and Wednesday.

Snowbird remains a noticeably better mountain in spring conditions than Alta. Just as Alta remains a superior area in early season as it skis nicely on a 4 foot base while much of Snowbird is a minefield.

The differences in topography etc. cause admin and my personal preferences to differ. But I still think that someone who lives in Utah and skis 60 out of 75 days at Alta has tunnel vision. As do my Iron Blosam friends who have skied only one day at Alta out of the nearly 40 that I have skied with them.

I think Bob Dangerous is a good model for Utah locals. He gets around enough to know which areas/sectors will ski best under current conditions. And thus produces days like our untracked 2,000+ vert bowl at Powder Mt. last season, plus that sick powder video off No Name at Snowbasin this January.

 

[Admin]

Tony, you're cherry picking from my post above and you know it. [-X And where is it written that soft snow = wet snow?

 

[Skidog]

Wait a hot minute here...

theres ski resorts in Utah other than Alta?

Hmmmm

M

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I still think that someone who lives in Utah and skis 60 out of 75 days at Alta has tunnel vision.

Someone's being called on the carpet.
:lol:

 

[Admin]

Really? Ask Mr. Carpet how many places I took him to in 3 hours on Sunday that he's never been to in 20 years of skiing Snowbird.

 

[Marc_C]

a crusty run down Santa Claus Alley in West Rustler

I'll stand by the 60+% comment. We had outstanding end-of-the-day runs on the long fall line of South Chute at Snowbird on both Tuesday and Wednesday.

Respectfully, you stand incorrectly. You had an "end-of-the-day" run down South Chute while ctmoneymgr specifically referred to "between 11am - 2pm". When it's been warm and sunny, at this time of year, 2p is a bit early for anything on West Rus. Santa Claus faces almost due west and South Chute is more NW-ish, but by mid-March they both get about the same amount of sun.

 

[Tony Crocker]

That was my point. South Chute is just enough NW that it was packed powder/winter snow for the top 3/4 of its vertical both Tuesday and Wednesday. West Rustler's sun is more direct, it therefore had a melt/freeze Monday and/or Tuesday and would have been crusty all day on Wednesday when there was almost no sun. If you do not go as far out the Ho Chi Minh Trail at Snowbird and drop skier's left earlier you get the similar direct west exposure and spring conditions as West Rustler.

 

[Admin]

Just as the Gad Chutes are comparable to West Rustler, South Chute is comparable to High Rustler (I disagree with Marc_C somewhat on South Chute's exposure, which I believe to be more NNW than the WNW that he implied). The comparison between Santa Claus at too early an hour and South Chute at the end of the day is apples and oranges, as Marc_C correctly pointed out. Now, had you compared High Rustler to South Chute at the same time of day you would've been right.

Look at Snowbird and Alta and you see remarkably similar topography. Each has two north/south oriented valleys with a north/south ridge running between them and half of a north/south ridge marking each north/south boundary. At the head of each of these four valleys is a large north-facing bowl, and at the north end of each ski area's central ridge is a triangular-shaped swath of terrain that faces due north. Each ski area's north/south-oriented central ridge's majority of terrain faces east or west by definition. The only significant difference is Snowbird's Mineral Basin, nearly all of which faces south.

Bottom line: IT'S THE SAME DAMNED TERRAIN!

As a result, you either prefer the fast-paced vibe and big vertical of Snowbird, or the laid-back vibe, smaller rocks underneath and deeper snow of Alta. I prefer the latter, Crocker prefers the former, but neither preference has a damn thing to do with terrain or its exposure.

 

[Tony Crocker]

There are many similarities but some key differences, several of which result in more north facing steeps at Snowbird.

The western valley of each area has excellent sheltered tree skiing (Wildcat/Westward Ho, Gad 2/Tigertail), quite analogous. But the upper alpine part is much more extensive at Snowbird. Little Cloud, Mark Malu plus Rasta Bowls, etc. vs. the short vertical of Ballroom. The extra vertical up to 11,000 at Alta is nearly all rock and not lift served. Yes the Baldy Chutes are spectacular, but they are a 30 minute hike and how many times per season do even the locals ski them?

The north/south ridge between the valleys is straightforward at Alta and nearly everything off it drops east or west. At Snowbird it bends some NW to SE, resulting in the steep north facing shots of the Upper Cirque plus Upper Silver Fox/Primrose. Nothing comparable at Alta.

The triangular north facing at the end of both ridges takes some grunt work to reach at both areas (High T, Ho Chi Minh Trail) but is worth the effort. Alta's Highboy and Eagle's Nest are classics but Dalton's, Mach Schnell and the Gad Chutes aren't too shabby either.

The eastern valley, Baldy traverse runs at Snowbird vs. Supreme at Alta, Supreme probably has more variety despite its shorter vertical. Lower down is apples and oranges, the Peruvian mogul runs vs. the ideal beginner terrain of Albion/Sunnyside. I agree beginners should avoid Snowbird.

About 1/4 of Mineral Basin's terrain bends around to NE exposure also.

The advantages of Snowbird detailed in the first 2 paragraphs are magnified in the spring. It didn't matter in those places that Wednesday was overcast after a warm Tuesday afternoon. The snow was still good all day long.

As a result, you either prefer the fast-paced vibe and big vertical of Snowbird, or the laid-back vibe, smaller rocks underneath and deeper snow of Alta.

Yes, big vertical is good, especially when it's as consistently steep as much of Snowbird's. I've always agreed that Alta covers the rocks better and is preferable until the base gets up to 5-6 feet (16-year average Jan. 1 base depth at Snowbird is 66 inches). For the rest of the season I'd ski Snowbird more, and the later in the year the stronger that preference comes.

I doubt the casual observer on an Alta powder day would classify the place as "laid-back." Both areas are Mecca for hard-charging locals who will slice and dice the obvious in a few hours and then hit their favorite hidden stashes. You want laid back? Go to Powder Mt.

If I lived in Utah I'd have the combined pass, logical given the early/late season differences. Many days, like Bob Dangerous, I might split between the areas and would probably overall wind up with a 2-1 ratio of Snowbird vs. Alta time. As I mentioned in the other thread, the people with the 6-1 or 10-1 ratios have tunnel vision IMHO.

 

[Admin]

But the upper alpine part is much more extensive at Snowbird. Little Cloud, Mark Malu plus Rasta Bowls, etc. vs. the short vertical of Ballroom. The extra vertical up to 11,000 at Alta is nearly all rock and not lift served. Yes the Baldy Chutes are spectacular, but they are a 30 minute hike and how many times per season do even the locals ski them?

You conveniently overlooked Devil Castle? 500 acres all by itself, it's far bigger than the entire combination of Little Cloud/Mark Malu/Rasta/Knucklehead...and yes, it faces north. I don't include Regulator Johnson in the Snowbird terrain you've mentioned above as it faces due west.

The north/south ridge between the valleys is straightforward at Alta and nearly everything off it drops east or west. At Snowbird it bends some NW to SE, resulting in the steep north facing shots of the Upper Cirque plus Upper Silver Fox/Primrose. Nothing comparable at Alta.

Gunsight? Eddie's? Thirds?

The triangular north facing at the end of both ridges takes some grunt work to reach at both areas (High T, Ho Chi Minh Trail) but is worth the effort. Alta's Highboy and Eagle's Nest are classics but Dalton's, Mach Schnell and the Gad Chutes aren't too shabby either.

Gad Chutes face due west. The woods at the northern end of the ridge separating Gad Valley and Peruvian Gulch are hopelessly dense, so that for the most part you can only ski the cleared lines of Mach Schnell and Dalton's -- very limited compared to the vast expanse of Eagle's Nest/North Rustler/Hourglass/High Rustler/Rustler IV.

About 1/4 of Mineral Basin's terrain bends around to NE exposure also.

1/4 of 1/4, perhaps. No way 25%. Grab a topo.

I doubt the casual observer on an Alta powder day would classify the place as "laid-back." Both areas are Mecca for hard-charging locals who will slice and dice the obvious in a few hours and then hit their favorite hidden stashes. You want laid back? Go to Powder Mt.

I'm hardly referring to the powder frenzy, which is intense at both locations. I'm instead referring to the facilities (GMD/Alta Lodge/Snowpine/Rustler/Peruvian vs. the concrete monoliths of Cliff Lodge/Iron Blosam/Inn/etc.), the tram hustle, dealing with the inconveniences of Snowbird Center, etc. I'm referring to the lack of snowboarding (apologies to my single-plank friends). I'm referring to the friendly and jovial clientele.

I enjoy both places immensely. However, to continue to blindly assert that the terrain is much more conducive to good snow at Snowbird over Alta is uninformed.

 

[Sharon]

I agree with both Tony and Marc regarding the pros and cons of Alta and Snowbird, but I am more with Tony about the terrain at Snowbird. I've always prefered Snowbird to Alta. I usually spend more time at Alta due to the cost of the lift ticket and the fact that most of my friends ski there, but I was not really keen on all the long gnarly traverses and all the climbing to get to the goods (I'm better with it now though). Also and am still not really great at navigating to the good stuff there. I mostly follow friends around Alta.

Snowbird seems much easier to sniff out the goods, probably because it is a lot easier to access. You can see much of it from the lifts and it is pretty easy to find your way to it. Also, I find the terrain is generally steeper at Snowbird and it seems the snow stays nicer longer there...at least in my experience, probably due to the more N exposures.

I think the reason why Snowbird needs more snow than Alta is because of it's consistently steeper pitches...which is why I prefer The Bird! (even though the bird ate some base off my skis at the top of the Peruvian Cirque! but it was worth it!)