Alta Master Plan

[Marc_C]

I was nosing around the Alta site last night and came across this. Some I knew but a few were surprises. Since it's just the master plan items, there is no timeline for any of these nor are they approved yet.

From: http://www.alta.com/the-mountain/future-plans
At the end of the review process the FS issued a decision outlining projects they accepted into our MDP. The following is a list of currently accepted projects in Alta`s MDP:

Micro Hydro Modification to snowmaking system
Solar power modification to all ski area buildings
Reshaping the Sunnyside and Snowpine parking lots into one at a better overall elevation Parking places lost over time to mass transit would be replaced, as well as 50 places moved from Wildcat to Sunnyside.
Building a Wildcat Day Lodge between Collins lift and the Buckhorn
Install a small tram from Germania Pass to just below the top of Mt. Baldy
Install avalanche explosive devices on Sugarloaf Mountain and East Castle
Replace and reconfigure Albion and Sunnyside lifts
Replace and reconfigure Cecret and Supreme lifts
Replace Wildcat lift as needed
Replace Alta Lodge tow as needed
Construct a new lift (Flora lift) from the bottom of Sugarbowl to the saddle north of the Collins ski patrol building. The lift would replace the East Baldy/Return to Collins road that runs from Sugarloaf lift top to Collins lift top.
Reworking Devil's Castle road off the top of Supreme to complete one summer groomed run off Supreme
Continued work on the High Traverse
Addition to the east end of Alf's restaurant
Small addition to the west end of Watson Shelter
Seasonal food and warming yurt on Supreme lift terrain
Restoration of Lake Flora at the top of Glory Hole. The lake would create water storage for Salt Lake City Water and snowmaking.

 

[Admin]

Since it's just the master plan items, there is no timeline for any of these nor are they approved yet.

Actually, they're apparently currently approved (although not guaranteed to be approved when the ski area wishes to implement them) as:

At the end of the review process the FS issued a decision outlining projects they accepted into our MDP. The following is a list of currently accepted projects in Alta`s MDP

Personally, I'd love to see:

Building a Wildcat Day Lodge between Collins lift and the Buckhorn
Install a small tram from Germania Pass to just below the top of Mt. Baldy
Construct a new lift (Flora lift) from the bottom of Sugarbowl to the saddle north of the Collins ski patrol building. The lift would replace the East Baldy/Return to Collins road that runs from Sugarloaf lift top to Collins lift top.
Seasonal food and warming yurt on Supreme lift terrain

 

[flyover]

Personally, I'd love to see:

Install a small tram from Germania Pass to just below the top of Mt. Baldy

Assuming the tram would not just be for control work . . . Really?

I'm not a hike-to evangelist, but I've always thought of that particular hike as a good thing. (Full disclosure, I've only been up there twice - once down main cute, and another time down an untracked high shoulder, low shoulder and then on an only-partially-intentional, hairball line through the cliff bands over to above armpit.) I'm curious about how ASP might feel about it. On the one hand, it would provide easier access for them. On the other hand, it would provide easier access for everybody else.

 

[Admin]

When they say "small tram" I'm picturing something like the beer can at Big Sky or Snowbasin. That's what, 15-20 people per trip x five or six trips per hour? On a good day that's about the same number that arrive atop Baldy by hiking, I'd imagine. I'd rather hike to areas that have a better opportunity to score untracked. At nearly 50 I'm never going to get Main, Little or Perla's untracked, so I'd kind of appreciate the lift. It would also increase Alta's lift-served vertical by a few hundred feet. OTOH, I'll readily admit that the line to load the lift will probably reach Goldminer's.

 

[Marc_C]

Personally, I'd love to see:

Building a Wildcat Day Lodge between Collins lift and the Buckhorn
Install a small tram from Germania Pass to just below the top of Mt. Baldy
Construct a new lift (Flora lift) from the bottom of Sugarbowl to the saddle north of the Collins ski patrol building. The lift would replace the East Baldy/Return to Collins road that runs from Sugarloaf lift top to Collins lift top.
Seasonal food and warming yurt on Supreme lift terrain

Curious why you'd like to see the Flora Lift.
I'd be much more excited to see lifts on East Castle and Devil's Castle since both of those are sidesteps from hell.

 

[Marc_C]

While we're at it.....
Does anyone know what this means? :

Continued work on the High Traverse

 

[EMSC]

Somewhere there are a giant pile of PDF documents showing all of the maps and locations, etc.. for the MDP. I'm visual so a lot of the list is guesswork for a non-native. A good map or two from the PDF would actually show where and what so much more easily.

 

[Admin]

Curious why you'd like to see the Flora Lift.

Minor reason: to eliminate the annoyance of the EBT frequently closing.
Moderate reason: to restore the full length of the East Baldy chutes so that they're not bisected by the road.
Major reason: the original quote refers to the saddle north of the ASP patrol shack on Germania. That would eliminate the hike to High Notch.

I'd be much more excited to see lifts on East Castle and Devil's Castle since both of those are sidesteps from hell.

Hear, hear.

Somewhere there are a giant pile of PDF documents showing all of the maps and locations, etc.. for the MDP. I'm visual so a lot of the list is guesswork for a non-native. A good map or two from the PDF would actually show where and what so much more easily.

From what I can tell (and this could be wrong), the last MDP was completed in 1997 and I can't find those documents in electronic form on the USFS website -- all I see are printed copies (e.g., http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/012109727) and an electronic copy of "Phase 1", part of which has already been implemented and none of which includes the cool stuff from the list above. And the map of "Phase 1" kind of lacks the detail I'm used to seeing in MDPs, EISs, etc.:

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558/ab ... 384384.pdf
:lol:

 

[Marc_C]

Major reason: the original quote refers to the saddle north of the ASP patrol shack on Germania. That would eliminate the hike to High Notch.

I don't think so, other than the first short hump on the ridge. Actually I'm not too sure exactly what/where they mean when they say the "...saddle north of the patrol shack..."

And I still want to know about the "...continuing work on the High T".

 

[Marc_C]

Moderate reason: to restore the full length of the East Baldy chutes so that they're not bisected by the road.

Have you ever done them? I haven't. Once I expend that much effort to get to their top, I'm going for LTD or one of the chutes!

 

[Admin]

I've done #3, and the road was annoying.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'd be much more excited to see lifts on East Castle and Devil's Castle since both of those are sidesteps from hell.

+2 to that. All the terrain from top of Baldy is quite serious DFU, better to leave that as hike-to IMHO.

 

[jkamien]

Aren't the A-Z chutes at Big Sky similarly DFU terrain? Somehow they're running a tram up there.

 

[Marc_C]

Aren't the A-Z chutes at Big Sky similarly DFU terrain? Somehow they're running a tram up there.

You don't access them from the Tram. They are hike-to via ascent of the intended chute.

 

[Marc_C]

All the terrain from top of Baldy is quite serious DFU, better to leave that as hike-to IMHO.

The High Shoulder isn't all that DFU and frankly Main Chute isn't significantly riskier than High Notch, Highboy, or Eagles Nest and some other lines in North Russ. From the summit you can also access Memorial Chute into Eddie's Snowfield as well as Living The Dream (all 3 are Snowbird terrain).

 

[jkamien]

I found Eddie's High Nowhere to have a greater pucker factor than Perla's, but I guess you'd have to classify EHN as hike-to as well.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The A-Z chutes at Big Sky are hike-to on a spine from from Challenger/Headwaters. Headwaters chutes are on the north side of that ridge and and A-Z on the south side.

The more open terrain on Baldy is on the Snowbird side like Living the Dream. I'd be surprised for Alta to build a lift that most skiers would use to ski into Snowbird.

 

[Admin]

The more open terrain on Baldy is on the Snowbird side like Living the Dream. I'd be surprised for Alta to build a lift that most skiers would use to ski into Snowbird.

"Most skiers" would ski LTD? What are you smoking out there in California? I know that anyone with a hangnail can get a California medical card, but really? That's akin to saying that you're surprised that Alta built Wildcat because it leads to Keyhole.

Right now you can hike to Baldy from either Alta or Snowbird. Despite that, for every 200 hikers, 199 ski the Baldy Chutes and maybe one skis south-facing LTD. What makes you think that a lift will change that? And how many people are going to load an Alta lift and descend a run leading to a place that requires a Snowbird lift ticket to escape from?

Be aware that very few visitors have AltaBird day tickets and a minority of season passholders have a combined pass. Right now any access point to Snowbird (Keyhole, Westward Ho and Sugarloaf Pass) is appropriately gated, so why would you believe that LTD would not be gated, too, if/when a Baldy Tram were to be built?

No, "most skiers" would not be using that lift to ski into Snowbird.

 

[Tony Crocker]

You don't think a half hour hike self selects skiers? With lift access, more people will be up there who wouldn't even think about skiing a Baldy Chute.

I probably shouldn't have said "most skiers" in view of the separate ticketing. However, the advent of the Mountain Collective means many more skiers have dual mountain tickets than before 2013-14.

If Alta puts a lift up there, it's primarily a marketing move IMHO because 2,500 vertical looks more impressive than only 2,000 to the casual brochure reader. There are also people like Patrick and Chris Steiner of Forbes/zranking.com who put a lot of weight upon vertical in evaluating ski areas.

 

[stan]

I would disagree that marketing would be the prime motivation. I am told by friends and relatives on patrol that it takes almost the entire patrol to open Baldy Chutes. Getting patrol up there would get more skiers to compact the snow and allow Alta to open the chutes more frequently. It would also allow patrol to more easily control above Ballroom, which is really intermediate terrain. At least from patrol's perspective, the advantage would be theirs.

Now, what marketing chooses to do with it, that is their thing.