Bend, Oregon Gets Its Comeuppance

[jamesdeluxe]

I always crack up when these types of towns are suggested as places "where you can have it all:"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/us/18 ... anted=1&em

And guess whose fault it is? :-k

 

[powerlumina77]

Good article- some great food for thought if you're contemplating a major move for lifestyle advantages. It's really important to include real life information and not get blinded by the recreation opportunities (if you're of normal means). Sometimes it works out though- We followed the NYT articles about Ogden, UT, and really found a winner. Spousal advice really payed off too. She limited us to major airports featuring direct flights back east. Job interests (Hill AFB) sealed the deal. But if we really had to list the solids, Ogden still was a safe bet with lots of other industries, recreation, and visible renewal in the downtown. I've just been following Ogden and Bend as two cities that have ambitions to be the next Boulder, CO.

The local wisdom also states that UT was somewhat cushioned from CA influence because of the different culture. An interesting read on Bend. I'm always interested in up-and-coming ski towns where the average joe can buy in. Anybody know any others?

 

[icelanticskier]

i've got one christ by jesus! RANGELEY MAINE! :lol:

rog

 

[Tony Crocker]

A "ski town" or anyplace where the economy is mostly tourism driven (along with related areas like real estate) is going to be more sensitive to economic downturns than metro areas (read SLC/Ogden) that probably have a more diverse job base. I always viewed Bend as a potential place to retire, not work. I'm not at all surprised by the high proportion of investment income in that article. If someone retired in Bend with enough cushion to ride out last fall's financial markets they should be OK.

 

[Bobby Danger]

ayup can't get anywhere from there . not much around rangley . just need to watch those frenchmen driveing the logging trucks some haven't been out of the allegash in a while.

 

[schubwa]

Although the NYT article made some good points, to me it seems like some kind of "envy". The Times has never been fond of the west coast, especially California. Sure, lots of Californians have moved here (Including me 15 years ago), but most of them moved to Cali from somewhere else. So who cares!!!???

Today it's an even 80 degrees, sunny and absolutely gorgeous. I'm going on a road bike ride after work, or is that MTB'ing, floating the river, golfing, seeing live music, etc., etc. This is a great place to live and folks are hating it if they lose their jobs and have to move back to the big city. I don't know ANYBODY here that would consider moving back to a sweaty, grimy megalopolis like NYC.

We do seem to have come through the worst of our correction here. Prices of homes have plummeted, but are now affordable enough that folks are jumping back in. A keystone downtown restaurant has reopened under new ownership, adding to a very vibrant downtown scene. This month is the Cascade Cycling Classic, with it's super fun twilight criterium that winds it's way through downtown, and road races over local passes. I almost think it's better now, after the gold rush, because all the infrastructure is here with less people.

Oh, you like to ski? If you're too lazy to drive 20 minutes and hike to July corn, just point it to Mt Hood for year-round lifts about two hours away. It really isn't that bad here New York Times!

 

[Geoff]

Although the NYT article made some good points, to me it seems like some kind of "envy". The Times has never been fond of the west coast, especially California. Sure, lots of Californians have moved here (Including me 15 years ago), but most of them moved to Cali from somewhere else. So who cares!!!???

So what's the story with POWDR and the ski area? The formula at POWDR-owned resorts seems to be jacked up prices, reduced services, austerity budget, slashed payroll, shortened season, and a completely demoralized staff. The lift safety issues certainly made the rounds on the internet. I haven't heard anything in a year. Dave Rathbun didn't exactly make friends and influence people at Killington though the flawed decisions in his two years during the ASC malaise years and the one horrific year under POWDR were probably mostly above his pay grade. Did it get any better at Mt. Bachelor?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

And now a word from the Bend Chamber of Commerce:

Today it's an even 80 degrees, sunny and absolutely gorgeous. I'm going on a road bike ride after work, or is that MTB'ing, floating the river, golfing, seeing live music, etc., etc. This is a great place to live and folks are hating it if they lose their jobs and have to move back to the big city. I don't know ANYBODY here that would consider moving back to a sweaty, grimy megalopolis like NYC.

We do seem to have come through the worst of our correction here. Prices of homes have plummeted, but are now affordable enough that folks are jumping back in. A keystone downtown restaurant has reopened under new ownership, adding to a very vibrant downtown scene. This month is the Cascade Cycling Classic, with it's super fun twilight criterium that winds it's way through downtown, and road races over local passes. I almost think it's better now, after the gold rush, because all the infrastructure is here with less people.

Oh, you like to ski? If you're too lazy to drive 20 minutes and hike to July corn, just point it to Mt Hood for year-round lifts about two hours away. It really isn't that bad here New York Times!

You read a lot into an article written purely about the economic downturn.

Just a guess, but people who don't share your lifestyle preferences probably aren't envious of you.

 

[schubwa]

You read a lot into an article written purely about the economic downturn.

I was being nice, maybe I should have said what I really meant. I thought it was a cheap shot, especially from a paper printed just steps away from Wall St., a place many Americans consider the source of the graft and greed that helped fuel this downturn.

Just a guess, but people who don't share your lifestyle preferences probably aren't envious of you.

I know you couldn't be envious of this lifestyle...why would a guy from New Jersey be lurking around a site about western ski areas?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

The article was written about Bend, but as someone noted on another forum, it could've just as easily been about Truckee, Durango, Jackson, or any of the other "lifestyle meccas." To me, it wasn't a personal slight about your town, but rather a cautionary tale about what happens when a place gets really popular and can't support all the people who moved there (not a unique event). You're blaming Wall Street because it's an easy target, but Wall Street is just the symptom... the "disease" is Americans' greed and lack of common sense -- something that isn't confined to a region. You also implied that the NYT has an issue with Californians, but national elections always demonstrate that people in the northeast have a lot more in common, culturally and politically, with the west coast than with any of the real estate in between. Thus, I disagree with your premise that the "liberal east-coast media" is out to tar and feather people from California.

I know you couldn't be envious of this lifestyle

I wasn't referring to myself. You assumed that urbanites secretly envied your lifestyle and I pointed out that this probably isn't the case. FWIW, I lived almost a decade in the Rockies, and I'm sure I would be able to enjoy myself in Bend. Even though I live in a place that you look down your nose at, it's summer and I go mountain biking on deserted, single-track trails three times a week -- probably the same as if I lived out there.

Your town got some negative press... deal with it.

 

[Tony Crocker]

You assumed that urbanites secretly envied your lifestyle and I pointed out that this probably isn't the case.

The proportion of northeasterners (such as NY Times employees) who place high value on an outdoor active lifestyle is far lower than in western metro areas, much less a place like Bend. So the tone of the NY Times article is perhaps a bit more derogatory than if it had been written by a reporter from L.A., Seattle or Denver.

We forget this around here because the FTO northeasterners are avid members of that minority.

My impression is that Dave Rathbun corrected some (such as lift maintenance) but not all of the issues that have alienated POWDR Corp from the Bend locals. We would appreciate Schubwa's take on this.

 

[flyover]

The proportion of northeasterners (such as NY Times employees) who place high value on an outdoor active lifestyle is far lower than in western metro areas . . .

Um, I think I'm going to have to have to file that statement under "absolute hogwash" until I see some solid evidence to back it up.

Spend a little time, on a holiday weekend, trying to get from most NE metro areas to places where activities commonly associated with an "outdoor active lifestyle" are enjoyed (mountains, beaches, wilderness areas, etc.), and it soon becomes clear that millions and millions of northeasterners place a high value on such activities. If we're going to generalize wildly, we could just as well say that the proportion of people living in places like Bend that place a high value on living where the economy supports actually making a living is far lower than it is in most NE metro areas. :wink:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

the tone of the NY Times article is perhaps a bit more derogatory than if it had been written by a reporter from L.A., Seattle or Denver.

Please point out to me where the writer is taking derogatory cheap shots at its subjects? Exactly what would a reporter from those three cities have done differently? The article is about a massive market correction -- one that's happening in different ways almost everywhere in this country.

That's why I was surprised when Schubwa felt obligated to draw up a laundry list of all the things you can do there... no one was claiming that the outdoor stuff has gone away. The writer is doing nothing more than claiming that, at least for now, middle-class people from west coast big cities won't be able to move en masse (on shaky financial assumptions) to lifestyle meccas like Bend. Considering what's happening elsewhere in our economy, it doesn't seem like such a far-fetched hypothesis.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm not disputing content of the article; I just detected some of the same tone that Schubwa did.

My other comment about the priorities of people in eastern urban areas vs. western? That was brought up by someone else on one of those East-West threads some time ago, and didn't attract much controversy at the time IIRC. I should not have said "northeasterners," as I think it's quite likely than many in upper New England are making rather similar lifestyle vs. income choices as the people in Bend or other western resort towns.

 

[rfarren]

I'm not disputing content of the article; I just detected some of the same tone that Schubwa did.

My other comment about the priorities of people in eastern urban areas vs. western? That was brought up by someone else on one of those East-West threads some time ago, and didn't attract much controversy at the time IIRC. I should not have said "northeasterners," as I think it's quite likely than many in upper New England are making rather similar lifestyle vs. income choices as the people in Bend or other western resort towns.

I think the danger of what Tony earlier wrote was that "metro areas" comment. It implied that the population of Northeastern cities, i.e. metro areas, were not as interested in outdoor activities as their western counterparts. I think by and large it is not true, although I don't particularly find that comment to be terribly controversial.
If you take the case of people who move to metro areas such as Seattle, Portland, Denver, and SLC a large portion of them are going out there because there are a myriad of great outdoor activities nearby. Whereas, many who move to the east coast cities such as New York and Boston are moving for income, or more of an urban lifestyle. That being said, many who move to NY find themselves wanting play outdoors eventually, and luckily for them they have plenty of choices. This might explain bumper to bumper traffic to and from the beaches in the summer! The roads back from the Catskills can get pretty crowded too.
I think one must remember that most people choose to live within 50 miles of where they are born. Therefore, it is entirely conceivable that given there are more, or should I say different, outdoor activities in some cities, a certain "outdoorish" culture could become more prevalent. One caveat is that often "natives" don't use many of the the assets which make one city more desirable over another. An example of this would be a friend of mine who still to this day has never gone to the Met.

 

[schubwa]

So what's the story with POWDR and the ski area? Did it get any better at Mt. Bachelor?

You know, we had a very interesting season and as I reflect on what happened, I'd say Powdr made some great strides towards improving operations here at Bachelor. I think their attention to the lifts and communication were the two areas with the most gains. They still have a ways to go, and the early close date is a joke. We could be skiing some great corn this weekend on the Summit Chair, as the ice storm and subsequent heavy late winter snowfalls have left us with plenty of summer snow.

We got off to a late start, but they were working hard to stretch the rather thin cover we had for a few weeks. But then we slipped into a wet pattern and I really appreciated how the lifts opened sooner in the day on powder mornings. This spreads out the ravenous pow riders, so it doesn't go so fast. I was bummed they dropped the pass prices for the young adults, they're the ones with the time to ride, so the lift lines didn't get any shorter even with the recession. It's hard to be a powder pig sometimes.

After a stellar holiday cycle, just as I left for Bald Face, we got this freak ice storm that almost destroyed the ski area. Freezing rain covered everything with a thick layer of ice and caused a tremendous amount of damage, most noticeably were swaths of subalpine trees that snapped off, then frozen into place. Of course the lifts had to be tediously chipped off by hand, and the ski runs were covered with blue ice. But the ski area jumped into action and with the help of a little new snow, got the place open. I think this was their finest hour. We deal with a lot of nasty weather here in the PNW, but this was like cleaning up after D-Day. Eventually the snow built up enough to venture back out into the trees, the debris got covered, and the snows kept coming.

Powdr upgraded the "daily" reports by constantly updating as the day progressed. This was a much appreciated feature, especially during a storm cycle. Lots of times the storms come in super windy, limiting operations. But they kept us in the know, and reported with enthusiasm. Attitude is everything, as you know. Our late winter storm cycle provided some insanely good riding, and the lift boys did a nice job opening the top on time. It kind of took us by surprise, many times I thought I'd miss the top and have to go back to work, and it'd be open! Woo-hoo. "Oh, the back won't open till later"...but then the ropes would be down. This made for a nice finish to a tough season.

My final point is that it's truly a crying shame that the ski area closes in mid-May. We had weather (cloud cover and freshies) all the way to the closing date. It was only after the place closed that we had the epic corn cycles. We had perfect corn growing weather all June, and it just melted in the sun, with no tracks in sight.

 

[Tony Crocker]

As much as I brag on the virtues of my home area of Mammoth in spring, there is no doubt in my mind that in terms of natural attributes Mt. Bachelor is head and shoulders above anywhere else in North America in this department. Out of 9 April/May days I've skied there, 5 had had widepread ripe corn of a quality comparable to the top 5-10% of spring days at Mammoth. Make that 6 out of 10 if you count a snowcat day at Mt. Bailey on one of those trips.

Mt. Bachelor should aggressively pursue race teams as a means of of keeping cash flow close to break-even for May/June. They have far more terrain and fall line vertical than Timberline and more consistency with an average later snowpack than Mammoth.

 

[Harvey]

Not sure if the article is "biased against California" or not. If the NYT has a bias against other areas of the country that would be fairly stupid from a business perspective. 50% of NYT circulation is outside the New York DMA. Even more than that is outside the NY Metro. Last time I looked California circ was well over 100,000. San Fran was especially strong.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I don't think NYT is "biased" against California. But it's probably biased "for New York." Like the famous New Yorker cartoon someone posted on another thread.

I actually read quite a bit of NYT stuff online. There have probably been fewer of the drastic cuts in content that financially pressured papers like LA times have had in recent years.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I don't think NYT is "biased" against California. But it's probably biased "for New York." Like the famous New Yorker cartoon someone posted on another thread.

I agree... but for the third time, how did the pro-NY bias impact this report? The article wasn't one of those "NYC has more museums, restaurants, theaters, cinemas, and intelligent people than Bend" pieces. The reason I used the word "comeuppance" in this thread is that I had never read a remotely negative article about Bend until then. It was always "Top Ten Best Places to Live," "Top Ten Places to Be Joe Outdoors," etc., so it was kind of shocking to learn about trouble in paradise.

To provide some perspective, I live in a region that collects bad press almost relentlessly. The only place in the U.S. that may get it worse is Detroit/Flint or some other Rust Belt dead zone. I've barely lived here five years, so I can look at things from a relatively objective viewpoint and not need to launch into hometown cheerleading. While some of the anti-NJ sentiment is deserved, IMHO, a good portion isn't. Given our present situation, we're surprised that it's working out better than we had expected. Obviously, for hardcore skiers, it ain't the place to be. We're 1:45 from second-rate EC areas (Catskills) and more than double that for northern VT. I won't bore you with what I find worthwhile here -- my point is that it's helpful to come to terms with the message (especially when it's on-target) and not feel obligated to launch into ad hominem rants against the messenger.

There have probably been fewer of the drastic cuts in content that financially pressured papers like LA times have had in recent years.

While not the draconian measures taken by the LA Times and other papers, if I'm not mistaken, the NYT has been forced to drop several parts of the paper, including the popular "city" section.