Any of the Utah locals have any more scoop on what's going on over at the Canyons? They announced Friday afternoon that they are pushing back opening day to December 10th as they continue to try and finish up all their construction projects. Judging by recent pictures, it looks like they still have their work cut out for them, and I can't imagine all the snow through the weekend is going to help matters. Needless to say, a LOT of unhappy season pass holders over at the Canyons Facebook page. Rumors abound from missing permits to collapsed buildings to broken snowmaking equipment. Sounds like a mess!
Canyons Opening Day Delayed
- Thread starter biny
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Mike Bernstein
New member
Looks like their PR and communications on this was executed with the same amount of savvy as their attempts to SPAM this board.
I've never worked in the PR/marketing department of any company. Never took a single college course on the subject. Yet even I know it's a pretty shitty thing to do to leave your customers in the dark until the last possible moment. This is especially the case when it's been obvious literally for weeks, if not months, that they wouldn't make the projected opening day. When you furthermore compound this magnitude of screw up by neglecting to apologize to your passholders in the midst of an historically large early-season storm cycle, you've truly achieved a trifecta of stupid.
So congratulations to the Canyons marketing and PR department. You have promptly pissed away any momentum and goodwill you bought with your investments over the summer. I guess that's what you get when you're run by real estate hacks.
I've never worked in the PR/marketing department of any company. Never took a single college course on the subject. Yet even I know it's a pretty shitty thing to do to leave your customers in the dark until the last possible moment. This is especially the case when it's been obvious literally for weeks, if not months, that they wouldn't make the projected opening day. When you furthermore compound this magnitude of screw up by neglecting to apologize to your passholders in the midst of an historically large early-season storm cycle, you've truly achieved a trifecta of stupid.
So congratulations to the Canyons marketing and PR department. You have promptly pissed away any momentum and goodwill you bought with your investments over the summer. I guess that's what you get when you're run by real estate hacks.
mbaydala
New member
Spoke to a guy on Friday night at a bar in Park City, so remember where and when I'm getting this information. Anyway, he said he works there and has been working on building the new lift on Iron Mountain. He said that there is no way that lift will spin before Feb, because in constructing the lift the created a slide path that runs right into the bottom of the lift house. He said the plan is to break down the wall by building up a 3 level concrete structure like they build above roads so that the snow has no momentum or reason to move. Good luck building that now that there is 3 feet of snow on the ground
He also pointed out that all the new bubble lifts are sitting in an industrial lot somewhere in Idaho because they can't be out in the weather overnight or they will break????? Yeah, that's what he said so again, take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt but that's what I heard. Lifts that can't be out in the weather seems a little fishy to me.
He also pointed out that all the new bubble lifts are sitting in an industrial lot somewhere in Idaho because they can't be out in the weather overnight or they will break????? Yeah, that's what he said so again, take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt but that's what I heard. Lifts that can't be out in the weather seems a little fishy to me.
Mike Bernstein
New member
That seems a bit fishy/weird. Not sure I follow. Was he saying that they inadvertently created a slide path when they cut the lift line? If so, how would they know that right now? Did it slide during the current storm cycle?mbaydala":ojz2dzzt said:
Someone on TGR who seems to have inside info posted that if you keep the bubble chairs outside at night, it invalidates the warranty from Dopplemayr. Apparently, per this guy, it was the need to build a shed to store the bubbles which created permitting issues that Canyons wasn't aware of, and which then delayed them until the end of the summer. It's not entirely clear whether they were ever able to sort out that permit issue. If not, they may end up with the worst of both worlds - they waited on construction so they could sort it out, but couldn't sort it out, and are now delaying their opening and looking at the prospect of invalidating their warranty on their new $6MM chair.
Obviously you need to make your own judgments as to the validity of the sourse, but check out the relevant thread on TGR and draw your own conclusions.
If true, it's awesomeness. Great job Talisker!!!
Different set of issues. RCR got into this kind of situation with the Timber/White Pass expansion at Fernie in 1998. They were slow on getting the lifts built, then it dumped in November, setting back progress and the new lifts didn't get going until after Christmas.EMSC":18mf1jl4 said:
Mike Bernstein
New member
But it's actually worse than that, Tony.Tony Crocker":1ldyjl0f said:
They were going to miss their opening day irrespective of whether it snowed or not. They chose not to divulge this information until the last possible moment even when it was painfully obvious (given recent photos) that they were nowhere near completion. Moreover, even though Timber/White Pass at Fernie were delayed, that only prevented access to expansion terrain. In this case, the bubble quad and gondola are the only lifts out of the base, and their inability to operate prevents the entire mountain from being open. When you further consider that they've refused to acknowledge their error or apologize to their customers for misleading them, it's a monumental screw up all the way around. What do you say to the people who booked rooms over Thanksgiving and into early December? What do you say to passholders who have seen their season shrink by 15 days? With a planned 135 days operating schedule (Nov 26 to Apr 10), that's over 10% of the days they paid for!! To my knowledge, no refunds or make-goods of any kind have been offered to anyone.
Good thing they found tie to SPAM this board not once, but twice. Also found time to come up with worthless, obtuse marketing slogans like "How do you mountain?"
How can a company be this poorly run?
An apology from the Managing Director: http://thecanyons.com/MikeGoarLetter.pdf
Looks like they're indeed 1-2 weeks behind schedule on construction and will offer 2 free day passes to season ticket holders.
Looks like they're indeed 1-2 weeks behind schedule on construction and will offer 2 free day passes to season ticket holders.
I agree the consequences are much worse at The Canyons as it prevents the entire mountain from opening. Plus there could be a long term marketing effect in a competitive market where many other areas are open now with great conditions.
Nonetheless RCR's reputation in Fernie with the locals during the Charlie Locke years was very bad for many reasons besides this one. Not quite on the level of Bend and Powdr Corp but close. The analogy is that a screw-up of this nature is symptomatic of bad management.
Nonetheless RCR's reputation in Fernie with the locals during the Charlie Locke years was very bad for many reasons besides this one. Not quite on the level of Bend and Powdr Corp but close. The analogy is that a screw-up of this nature is symptomatic of bad management.
Canyons opened today and both the Orange Bubble Express and realigned Gondola opened.
Whoever said you can't keep the bubble chairs out at night was misinformed. Most bubble chairs I've seen are kept on the line at night.
Think about it. What's the difference between the outdoor elements between the day and night? Nothing really.
Some operators will build the carrier storage to take the chairs off the line at night if the lift is in a location where wind may be an issue. This is a similar set up to many gondolas.
Whoever said you can't keep the bubble chairs out at night was misinformed. Most bubble chairs I've seen are kept on the line at night.
Think about it. What's the difference between the outdoor elements between the day and night? Nothing really.
Some operators will build the carrier storage to take the chairs off the line at night if the lift is in a location where wind may be an issue. This is a similar set up to many gondolas.
Mike Bernstein
New member
They didn't say you couldn't do it. They said you couldn't do it w/o invalidating the warranty.egieszl":mzuvbeai said:
Unless you were in the Canyons legal office, I doubt you could provide additional perspective on this issue.
Mike, it doesn't appear that they built any carrier storage facility and if they did then why have the bubble chairs been hanging on the line for a couple of weeks exposed to the elements? My point is that I don't believe that any warranty had anything to do with the opening delay.
Lastly, common sense tells me the carriers would be exposed to the same elements during operating hours as they would during non-operating hours. Also, I did make some inquiries with people who are familiar with ski lifts and they hadn't heard of such a thing. Unanimously they said that any warranty from a lift manufacturer isn't going to cover damage caused by mother nature, but they didn't understand why that would immediately prevent the lift's owner from making a valid claim if the need arose.
Do you understand my point now?
Lastly, common sense tells me the carriers would be exposed to the same elements during operating hours as they would during non-operating hours. Also, I did make some inquiries with people who are familiar with ski lifts and they hadn't heard of such a thing. Unanimously they said that any warranty from a lift manufacturer isn't going to cover damage caused by mother nature, but they didn't understand why that would immediately prevent the lift's owner from making a valid claim if the need arose.
Do you understand my point now?
Mike Bernstein
New member
And if you read that post from TGR closely, it would indicate that they were delayed over the summer in trying to get the permit for the shed to house the chairs, but after a a lot of hurdles were cleared, couldn't end up getting in time or in the fashion they needed. They therefore decided to move ahead w/o the shed, knowing this would invalidate the warranty on their chairs.egieszl":2r1kwc6a said:
Not quite.
1) It's usually a lot colder at night than during the day, or maybe that's just where I live. Stuff that might be wet during the day tends to freeze over night when it's below 32 and they stop operating.
2) During operating hours, you've got trained maintenance personnel on site, ready to deal with any issues that arise. Also, as a practical matter, the lift is in use during operating hours, so the chairs aren't just sitting there collecting snow/sleet/whatever on them.
No - in fact I don't understand your point at all. Did you make any inquiries with people who are familiar with the warranty provisions for heated bubble chairlifts? Are you aware that the one at the Canyons is the ONLY one in North America, and is therefore very likely to have slightly different warranty obligations and characteristics as the lifts that you see everywhere else? In fact, I'd go so far as to say it is this difference which is likely what tripped up Talisker, as they were operating under the assumption that the warranty was like any other lift they'd installed.
Yes, I am AWARE of the fact that this is ONLY heated bubble chair in North America. Are you AWARE of the fact that I've ridden one in Europe - no of course not.
You're also making your argument based on rumor, not fact - regarding the permitting for a carrier storage facility delaying the opening.
Also, you seem to be UNAWARE of the fact that you're acting like an arrogant jerk and I see no further point in responding to an a-hole.
You're also making your argument based on rumor, not fact - regarding the permitting for a carrier storage facility delaying the opening.
Also, you seem to be UNAWARE of the fact that you're acting like an arrogant jerk and I see no further point in responding to an a-hole.
Mike Bernstein
New member
I've ridden on a lot of different conveyances. That doesn't make me an expert on them.egieszl":2sat4luc said:
This is 100% true. That being said, your points to counter said rumor were riddled with some rather large gaps in reasoning. If I pointed out those gaps in an overly snarky manner, then I apologize.
Mike Bernstein
New member
Admin":2ajxpnw8 said:
My God - I had forgotten about that. Who was that who took his toys and ran away?