Greek Peak opending day 12/1

[Sharon]

Eastern hardpack with death cookies on one top to bottom Eleysian Fields/Stoic. No lift lines, but the lifts are still quite slow. Loud blasts of snowmaking on Iliad. May be a few days before Iliad gets covered.

Telemarked today to make that one run seem more of a challenge. It was really the death cookies that made telemarking challenging. I got into the groove, but after 6 runs my legs began to feel it. Instead of taking a break, I decided to call it a day and get some other things done before the snows came.

We got 4" here today on my backyard trails (on top of a frozen grass base that had a heavy dusting to 1" of snow on it from the recent lake event. There's about 2km of skiable rolling hills on a sloping meadow. Already have done 3 loops, many ups and downs. There are some really fast and fun downhills on my land.

Greek Peak is reporting 2" today. I don't feel like driving over there again to ride those lifts. There will be plenty of days over there to come. Skiing out my back door can come and go with a weather event...so I feel I must take advantage of it today. It is also nice not to burn fuel and have a nice day on my land without ever leaving my hill.

 

[EMSC]

So by your comments would that mean 1A was running instead of 1?
(and why in the world GP Mtn ops seems to actually like that chair is beyond me).

 

[Sharon]

since they made snow on Fields/Stoic first, it makes sense to run 1A. They were just starting to make snow on Iliad and around chair 1, so it would not make sense to run that chair with that scenario.

I think they started making snow on Fields/Stoic so that they can say they have 4 runs open. The other 2 are Alpha (which is about 100' vert of bunny slope) and the learning area which is about 25' vert of learning area with a magic carpet.

It is nice they get it open for beginners. But would like them to open Iliad first. I think it would accommodate more skiers of a wider range of ability than Fields/Stoic...but not by that much.

We are getting freezing rain now :-(

 

[EMSC]

Sharon,

I should give you some history. I grew up in your area and my parents still ski "the Peak" so I know it quite well (parents have a townhouse across the street, know the GM - though disagree with him often enough). Well actually, I've also skied GP over the holidays at least every year up until last Christmas when DIA shut down due to blizzards out here in CO. In spite of my western ski options, I also say unfortunately I will not make it back this year either. I still know a number of locals and it's always fun no matter the conditions.

Anyway, 1A is such an uncomfortable, slow chair. I know from my parents that if they are only going to run one lift midweek, etc... it is usually 1A - the worse chair (in the eyes of most customers). So thus my comment on not sure why mtn ops there seems to love that lift.

Always interested to hear how things are going at GP, given that the GM has such a propensity to not spend any money on the hill and instead attempting to focus on real estate like he already has a first class major resort to sell to potential buyers.

 

[Sharon]

EMSC, I too disagree with the GM. I keep an email dialog with him. I don't think he understands what goes on on the mountain, so I tactfully try to let him know that. I hope that he reads this forum, though I doubt it. I've sent him the link to my posts in the past, just so he can see what goes on out here on the interweb.

Anyhoo, as for 1A...Ops runs it because unlike chair 1, it can be slowed down for novice skiers. At least that is what I've been told. But I don't believe many novice skiers will be going down Fields this weekend. But as I said, 1A is closest to Fields so that is why it is preferred.

They should really just do away with both 1 and 1A and install a DHSQ. That will solve all the problems, cost less to run, move more skiers and slows down for novices. It will also put Greek Peak in the league of other mid-size NY resorts such as Bellayre, Windham, Bristol and Holiday Valley, all of whom have HSQs. I think realestate is failing here because GP doesn't appear to be a mountain that is improving the ski experience as per industry standards. At least they bought new snowmaking equipment...but I gotta say, they still make the same hardpack and deathcookies as always.

I've run this by Al before, but so far, he's not biting.

As for the waterpark/realestate...well, I think it will flop. CNY is just not a destination where people will buy into the waterpark/condo thing with enough numbers for it to be worthwhile. They've been selling for nearly 2 years and they only have 30% and have yet to build. They put a bulldozer on the land and pushed some dirt around to make it look like something, but that is all it is right now. I always thought it was a crazy idea. My friend was selling for them for a while. He was really gungho about it. I thought he was nuts and I told him it would not be worthwhile for him to move here to sell. He came anyway, full of enthusiam, but he quickly became disenchanted and left last year March to sell condos at another ski resort that actually focuses on skiing.

 

[EMSC]

As for the waterpark/realestate...well, I think it will flop

Preaching to the choir for sure, lol. Most of upstate is so economically depressed, the market he needs is NYC/NJ/southern PA; except if they are going to drive that far, why would you go to a run down hill with no town around. Vast majority will choose a bigger hill and for sure a better maintained hill and likely with a town very close for other diversions (aka - hunter/windham or all the way to VT).

Not sure why he has the equation backwards in his head. You build new lifts, trails, etc... and THEN put in real estate and make the money. You have to have something good there in the first place to be buying into. Especially after things like the early 90's when he told magazines and everyone who would listen that he was installing a quad chair (fixed). Like you, still waiting to see it... :roll: (and innumerable other instances just like that one).

A defining moment for me was when I noticed the big sign over the ticket windows in the dungeon like atmosphere of the Katalima a couple years back saying "not responsible for grease on your clothing from the lifts" (or something like that). I can't recall seeing a sign like that at any other ski area in at least 15 years. So very, very ticky-tacky having basically a huge advertisement of how bad your lifts are!(why hasn't he moved to so called 'grease-less' shiv's already?). And while you are attempting to get that grease off your jacket, can I interest you in some real estate?

Anyway, nothing I'm sure you haven't talked about with the other locals probably endlessly. As my parents no longer go up all that frequently I look forward to seeing some of your reports on how GP is doing.

 

[Sharon]

well, it's all we got.

I'd like it to be better. That is why I try to keep a dialog going with AK.

I don't think there is much he can do with his model except to improve the skiing experience. There isn't much of a draw for people to come from other cities to ski at Greek Peak. Even Holiday Valley and Bristol have fast lifts and nice lodges.

I don't mind the lodges at GP. I don't need fancy. I just want a pleasurable ski experience and some decent food. I told him how bad the food was a few years ago and he did something about it. New vendor and better quality food at Orion's. It's certainly no Deer Valley and never will be, but food that is reasonably decent is better than the god-awful crap they had a few years ago. I don't know what it will be like this year, but I will not buy it if it sux like it did last time.

They also need to do something about the grooming/snowmaking. LIke I said...hardpack with death cookies. I understand they are trying to make a bulletproof base to withstand any potential thaw, but it skis like crap. Luckily it is snowing now and the skiing should be decent when they open on thursday. I presume they will groom it to a hard base once again. I asked him to leave some of the trails ungroomed in the past. It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

There are a ton of nice pitches in the woods that could easily be cleared and named as glades. Right now they are illegal and pretty dangerous, as there is a lot of treefall. WIth enough snow they will ski ok. If they just had a trails day where people could work on clearing out the dangerous stuff they could put a few glades on the trail map. (I have done this with friends in years past, but didn't get up there this year). This could potentially bring in more business. Of course they are skied already, but they can be made bigger and better with a bit of work with chainsaws and manpower. Instead they cut one wide swath through a glade we used to ski and called it Hercules. Last year it made its debut. They made ice on it and it was treacherous to ski most of the season. They pushed all the downed trees further into the woods making it now unskiable. What a shame.

 

[ChrisC]

Hi all -

I too grew up in the region - Binghamton - and learned to ski at Greek Peak. Having family in the area, I get back every so often - more often in the summer these days. It's a pretty nice little mountain.

I still like to get out on the trails and hike some old favorites - like old Ronnie's Run, Atlas, Odyssey. And there is a special spot for the headwall of Olympian where as a kid I sat crying for some time before going over.

Greek Peak was decently successful throughout 80s or so. I remember waiting in actual 10 min. lines for night skiing in the late 70s. Vacationers from Philly and Rochester. But it seemed to stagnate as Upstate did too. And didn't Kryger go off and buy Scotch Valley/Deer Run too, put in condos and now it's gone?

I was up again this summer -- and quite surprised to see the water park. And they have torn up the area pretty well. However, I was more surprised to see some pretty nice log-cabin style homes.

 

[EMSC]

It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

In my experience, more often than sometimes. My parents have made many of the exact same complaints to him. They did talk about how Al made a huge pile of ice at the top of the new trail. Unfortunately I suspect that trail will never be very good. It has pretty big NW wind exposure just like Zeus (especially as wide as Al makes his new trails - he never found anything he didn't like to flatten and bulldoze). He should have turned it into a nice glade (when I was there, we used to call that one "rough rider").

I still have fond memories of some of the other unofficial glades too - Skiers left of Olympian, dropping down the skiers left side of the triple chair from the current glade all the way to the road (you have to pre-stage a car or two at the curve on the road. also there is an very old wire fence line in there you have to be careful of). At one point a long time ago even doing skiers right of Fields, but Al had to pull his bulldozer out and rip that entire section of the hill apart for Karyatis. By the time he gets done, he'll have destroyed his biggest asset - an interesting hill with varied terrain.

I don't think Al can change food vendors (not last I knew). He sold out his food operations to Boston Food Group for cash quite a while ago. Though he may have forced them to do better.

And didn't Kryger go off and buy Scotch Valley/Deer Run too

Al bought Scotch Valley, renamed it deer run, then sent some big $$ from GP down there - one year it was over $1M from GP down to Deer Run for groomers, snowmaking, and other stuff. But that was about the time things became financially tougher and snow years much worse so he ended up losing it (it still exists and changed it's name back to Scotch valley last I heard). Eventually I believe he went personally bankrupt and had his wife's parents buy his house back for him at a foreclosure auction.

The Pond ("lake") is another fun one. When was the big drought in that area? about 6-7 yrs ago? Al had to have special wells drilled to make snow that year since the creek he normally pulls from was bone dry. About a year or so later he somehow talked the government that it need to put in a recreation area/lake. In reality it is so that he now has a new ,and free to him, storage pond for snowmaking water that he can release down the creek to his pumps (more expensive to pump water up from deep wells).There are a handful of new houses (WAY overpriced for that area), most built spec by AL (that is where he has sunk most of his capital recently instead of the hill). Very modest amount of interest in them from what I understand, though he may have eventually sold them all by now...

Of course, from what I understand, Al is supposed to be using Federal Gov't money on his new waterpark (loans of some kind). That should be interesting if/when they don't get their money back.

Oh the stories...

 

[ChrisC]

The trail map is still showing an additional lift in the Greak Peak East area. I have a 1980-sh map with it present too. I would not hold my breath...

The trail work.

At one point a long time ago even doing skiers right of Fields, but Al had to pull his bulldozer out and rip that entire section of the hill apart for Karyatis.

That was actually the interesting steep side of the Fields.

Anyways, it was a fun place to learn to ski and race.

 

[Sharon]

There is a very nice "off the map" glad next to Fields. It gets a lot of traffic and it is quite steep, especially the last pitch. That's one of the glades I've worked on in the past.

The waterpark is not yet there...but there is a pond they call Hope Lake. The waterpark will be indoors.

There is a pond below Karyatis, at near the top of the meadow that they use for snowmaking. Never saw this one dry up...but I suppose Hope Lake is back-up.

It's snowin like crazy out there now and GP is closed until thurday. I am thinking about heading out there some time soon if there is indeed enough snow in the non-snowmaking areas :wink:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

As a fellow CNYer (from west of Syracuse), I make it up to GP three or four days a season when I'm visiting my mother.

I agree with all the negative stuff about the infrastructure (and that real estate plan is doomed), but for a 950-vert hill, I always manage to have a good time there, and the trees are great with the right coverage. If you squint your eyes, it's kinda like "The Canyons" of upstate NY. :lol:

Jason got me some 2 for 1 vouchers, so the $56 day pass :shock: won't hurt quite as much.

 

[EMSC]

Just couldn't resist...

Anyways, it was a fun place to learn to ski and race.

ChrisC what era are you for the racing part? I graduated out in late 80's. As a kid, way fun to ski GP. As an adult, so frustrating to see it being run the way it is with the potential it has for some good skiing.

There is a very nice "off the map" glade next to Fields

Yes but now in your mind imagine a full length glade through there that dropped you out just above the pond... Which I believe has not been used to make snow for at least a decade. Not sure what changed, but they used to stick hoses into the pond. You can still see the 'hydrant' poking up next to it to suck the water out but then they stopped doing that quite a while ago and rely pretty much exclusively on the creek now (there is also the tiny holding pond by the Trojan chair too). Did they re-start actively using that small pond?

the trees are great with the right coverage

Yes, but...

Lets see, they've killed off most the Fields glade, obliterated the Trojan glade ("rough rider"), ripped out the trees between trojan & appollux (sp?), ripped out the trees next to stoic, over widened illiad and flattened it too (same with christy's run), and on and on, etc... in a another decade it may be a bald hill with no trees left :lol:

He's also closed upper Atlas & Electra (well, the power company forced that one closed I guess), etc... I could accept a few of those as being good for skiing; making it easier to blow snow; or helping out newby's getting into the sport. But accumulated together he's really just flattening and widening everything in sight until he may actually lose that interesting hill he used to have - which is still the primary draw for CNY skiers (aka, I believe that most people come in spite of the place, not because it).

Well, my multiple cents take on current state. I just get frustrated hearing/discussing how poorly run it is given the great hill/opportunity it once had.

 

[Anonymous]

As my username implies I live in the 'cuse and hardly ever ski GP. Way overpriced for rickety old slow lifts. Why not ski the slightly smaller areas to the north at a fraction of the price? Am not surprised at the commentaries on the management of the place. If they are shrinking teh gladed areas at a time when it seems like that is what everyone is seeking out, they are truly out of touch. Sometimes we get some free passes so may go down there then, otherwise we'll ski the places up here or pay the comparable prices to go to a big mountain.

 

[Sharon]

hy not ski the slightly smaller areas to the north at a fraction of the price?

well, it is always difficult to drive 50-70 miles to a small hill when I can drive less than 25 miles to GP. It is much more convenient for day trips. If I am driving further, I go the 198 miles up to Gore.

GP is certainy not a destination, but neither is Song or Togennburg either.

Been wanting to check out Snow Ridge. I bet they have a lot of snow right now...but that is about 150 miles from here.

-Sh

 

[world'sworsttelemarker]

I couldn't agree more with the comments here. We could all cite inexplicable decisions made on running the place. My pet peeve is the bent, worn-out condition of the foot rests on the lift safety bars. It's a little, almost picky thing, but it says management doesn't care. There's no excuse for that. My biggest beef is overgrooming. Without some bumps, there's very little of interest, not that I'm a great skier, but even for me it gets boring. Either let a swath of Illiad go ungroomed all season or let Fields/Stoic go all the way down.

That said, it is the best we've got without a nearly 200-mile trip. I visited Labrador season-before-last just for a change of pace, and it was a charming little place but the terrain -- well, I've seen cross country trails with more pitch. Maybe Song is better than Lab, but GP still has more terrain, say what you will.

I believe the fundamental problem with GP is the people in charge aren't skiers (or snowboarders) or, more precisely, serious skiers. It's a job, a business, for them. I can't believe they set out to alienate customers. I think they just don't take the sport seriously, personally, anymore. But maybe they'll wise up -- it might take new blood coming in, maybe a new generation in the family that basically runs it -- and come up with a skiers advisory board of season-pass holders. They could get some good industry press for it: a semi-formal group that advises management and the mountain crew, suggesting things like opening lift 1 instead of 1A, making sure Illiad opens early, taking it easy on grooming, holding the glade-clearing days Sharon suggested, advising how and where to cut some of the trails that've been "proposed" on their trail maps for years. (I'd bet snowboarders feel the same way; I've heard grumblings on the lift about the terrain park and half-pipe -- not my thing, but my sense is they share the same general frustration). Years ago I talked with an editor at a ski-industry trade publication who said GP was known as a leader among hills its size for trying some innovative things like the free coaching and videotaping they seem to have dropped and for getting kids and new skiers into the sport. This advisory board could bring back that reputation and make the company seem responsive and respecting of paying customers -- and help improve things. Their key markets clearly are occasional skiers, snowboarders and school groups, but this advisory board would show GP as a serious-skier place, which in turn, I think, would make it seem more enticing to the broader market. A lot of non-skier or sometimes-skier people I know around town put down GP as beneath them, even though it'd be plenty enough hill for them. This advisory board could plant the idea that yeah, it's small, but it's good enough for real skiers. They need to try something.

Or they'll just sink more money into goofy real estate and milking the Albany economic-development trough. But we can hope.

 

[skimore]

I won't even go there anymore due to there tree skiing policy. Which I 'm not sure what it is, but when they try to write you some sort of ticket for skiing anything thats not a marked trail. I'm done. I prefer the place just north of there that doesn't hassle you for just skiing. You would probably get hassled at GP for doing this.... this week