Interesting Articles on "Forgotten" Mt. Waterman

[SoCal Rider]

Hope it's OK to bring back to life this stoke-filled TR by linking to a BBC piece on Waterman and the CA drought.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27203657

The Californian ski resort praying for snow

It takes just over an hour to drive from the heart of Hollywood to Mount Waterman, the nearest ski resort to Los Angeles.

You travel up a windy mountain road, and into an alpine world where mobile phones don't work, and there are no hotels, no shops, no petrol stations.

And no snow. Well, not enough to run a ski facility.

"We've become a bit of a lost ski area, people have forgotten we're up here” - Craig Stewart, Mount Waterman co-owner

 

[Tony Crocker]

In the past you could often ski there as late as May.

The above statement is complete BS. I have detail reports since 1996-97 and a weekly conditions chart since 1976. http://50.87.144.177/~bestsnow/scalhist.htm

The only seasons that Waterman could have operated in May would be the big El Ninos of 1983 and 1998.

Mt. Waterman opened the first week of February and closed April 19 with a 4-6 foot base. It opened the lower chair only May 16-17.

I skied Mt. Waterman April 23, 1983 with perfect backcountry corn. It certainly could have run into May but I don’t know that it actually did.

"I skied here every winter as a kid," says Rick Metcalf, who, together with family members and friends, bought and refurbished the facility eight years ago.
"It always snowed. This drought has just been crazy. I've never seen anything like it."

We skiers are eternal optimists. We remember the good years but the crappy ones fade from memory. The reality is that SoCal winters are extraordinarily volatile and always have been. 14 of the 39 seasons I have skied have never had enough snow to open all natural terrain. 3-in-a-row? Yes, 1985-86 through 1987-88 as well as the past 3 years. 2013-14 was the second worst SoCal season in my experience to 1983-84.

With regard to Mt. Waterman specifically (Italic sentences verbatim from my contemporary reports):
1996-97: Mt. Waterman was open only for a couple of weeks in January.
1997-98: see above, an excellent year, open 13 weeks but none before February.
1998-99: Waterman was only open the last weekend of January and the second weekend of April.
1999-2000: Mt. Waterman was open from President’s weekend to first week of April.
2000-01: The new Angeles Crest Resorts company running Waterman and Kratka just received new Forest Service permits and opened Waterman on a limited basis starting the last weekend of January. The Angeles Crest highway was buried February 11-17, when Waterman reopened chairs 1 & 2. Waterman was in full operation of facilities from February 24 to April 20 but Kratka had avalanche damage from the big Feb. 11-13 storm and never opened this season.
2001-02: Waterman never opened this season. No surprise with only 39 inches snow all season.
2002-03: Waterman opened its upper chairs December 21, but closed after the holidays. Waterman was inaccessible after the February snow while the Angeles Crest Hwy was under repair from earlier mudslides. That February snow was only 21 inches and would likely not have opened the face after zero snow in January.
2003-04: The 2002 and 2003 drought seasons took their toll on Mt. Waterman and it is unclear when it will be back in business. This was presumably the point where the ACR/Stubblefield ownership got in trouble with the Forest Service permits. Had there been no permit issue Waterman would have been open from late February to late March as Baldy was.
2004-05: This was the only excellent SoCal season that was “lost” at Waterman due to the ownership/permit issue. Had Mt. Waterman been operating, I estimate it would have been open about 17 weeks, with good skiing on at least 12-13 of those. I estimate Mt. Waterman got about 300 inches snowfall in 2004-05.
2005-06: The first big snow storm of the season was March 10-11. If Waterman had permits, it would have been open about 4 weeks after that.
2006-07: With only 43 inches natural snowfall Waterman would not have opened at any time even if it had permits.
2007-08: Mt. Waterman passed lift inspections in October 2007 and patrol was working on the mountain since the early January storm. Despite having a 7 foot base since late January, opening was delayed until February 16 by road closure and kitchen inspection. March 15 was Waterman's last day of this season due to financial and staffing considerations. As an ongoing business Mt. Waterman probably could have operated from early January to late March in 2008.
2008-09: Mt. Waterman was open (Fri-Sun) Dec. 21 – Jan. 12 and Feb. 9 – Mar. 15.
2009-10: Due to mudslides after the Station Fire, Mt. Waterman opened as of the weekend March 13-14 via the Big Tujunga alternate route, open Fri-Sun through April 18. Without the road problems Waterman could have been open starting about Jan. 23.
2010-11: Mt. Waterman opened January 7 on a Friday-Sunday schedule via the same Big Tujunga detour as last season but closed after MLK weekend. Mt. Waterman had its usual road difficulties from the February storms but finally opened Feb. 27 and resumed its Friday-Sunday schedule. Mt. Waterman was closed during the March storm weekend but was open 3 days a week the next 2 weekends. April 3 was closing day despite a deeper base than Mt. Baldy.

Then the last 3 seasons with not enough snow to open.

Estimated number of weekends Mt. Waterman was or could have been open since 1997:
2, 13, 2, 7, 10, 0, 2, 4, 17, 4, 0, 12, 9, 12, 8, 0, 0, 0.
That’s an average of less than 6 weeks per season.

The prior 21 years look somewhat better, averaging about 8 weeks, but 5 of those 21 were still wipeouts similar to the last 3 years when perhaps the upper lifts could have run a week or two, but there was clearly not enough snow at any time to open the face. Road issues are not new either. 1977-78 was one of the better SoCal seasons, but Mt. Waterman's access road was closed by mudslides all of February and March.

The real difference between now and “the good old days” for Mt. Waterman is not absolute snow conditions, but conditions relative to Big Bear in particular, which gets half as much natural snow but now has world class snowmaking. Through the 1970’s the snowmaking was more limited, and Waterman probably had better snow than Big Bear more often than not. But on an absolute scale SoCal natural snow skiing has always been hit or miss.

 

[Tony Crocker]

http://www.snocountry.com/en/news/entry ... t-waterman

Mt. Waterman was the first place Warren Miller skied in 1942-43. He grew up in SoCal as many of us know, and no surprise was a surfer.

The article above is an interesting parallel to my introduction to skiing at Baldy. Both mountains are not the greatest places for low end skiers. While my struggles were due to poor natural athletic talent, Warren Miller's were due to primitive ski equipment on a tough ungroomed mountain with variable SoCal snow.

The safety binding, or release binding as it is called today, had not yet been invented. Among all of my friends who I skied with, not one of us ever broke anything except our bank account.

I was not so lucky, blowing out an ACL on the second day at Baldy in 1976.

 

[Tom Moriarty]

In the past you could often ski there as late as May.

The above statement is complete BS. I have detail reports since 1996-97 and a weekly conditions chart since 1976. http://50.87.144.177/~bestsnow/scalhist.htm

The only seasons that Waterman could have operated in May would be the big El Ninos of 1983 and 1998.

Mt. Waterman opened the first week of February and closed April 19 with a 4-6 foot base. It opened the lower chair only May 16-17.

I skied Mt. Waterman April 23, 1983 with perfect backcountry corn. It certainly could have run into May but I don’t know that it actually did.

"I skied here every winter as a kid," says Rick Metcalf, who, together with family members and friends, bought and refurbished the facility eight years ago.
"It always snowed. This drought has just been crazy. I've never seen anything like it."

We skiers are eternal optimists. We remember the good years but the crappy ones fade from memory. The reality is that SoCal winters are extraordinarily volatile and always have been. 14 of the 39 seasons I have skied have never had enough snow to open all natural terrain. 3-in-a-row? Yes, 1985-86 through 1987-88 as well as the past 3 years. 2013-14 was the second worst SoCal season in my experience to 1983-84.

With regard to Mt. Waterman specifically (Italic sentences verbatim from my contemporary reports):
1996-97: Mt. Waterman was open only for a couple of weeks in January.
1997-98: see above, an excellent year, open 13 weeks but none before February.
1998-99: Waterman was only open the last weekend of January and the second weekend of April.
1999-2000: Mt. Waterman was open from President’s weekend to first week of April.
2000-01: The new Angeles Crest Resorts company running Waterman and Kratka just received new Forest Service permits and opened Waterman on a limited basis starting the last weekend of January. The Angeles Crest highway was buried February 11-17, when Waterman reopened chairs 1 & 2. Waterman was in full operation of facilities from February 24 to April 20 but Kratka had avalanche damage from the big Feb. 11-13 storm and never opened this season.
2001-02: Waterman never opened this season. No surprise with only 39 inches snow all season.
2002-03: Waterman opened its upper chairs December 21, but closed after the holidays. Waterman was inaccessible after the February snow while the Angeles Crest Hwy was under repair from earlier mudslides. That February snow was only 21 inches and would likely not have opened the face after zero snow in January.
2003-04: The 2002 and 2003 drought seasons took their toll on Mt. Waterman and it is unclear when it will be back in business. This was presumably the point where the ACR/Stubblefield ownership got in trouble with the Forest Service permits. Had there been no permit issue Waterman would have been open from late February to late March as Baldy was.
2004-05: This was the only excellent SoCal season that was “lost” at Waterman due to the ownership/permit issue. Had Mt. Waterman been operating, I estimate it would have been open about 17 weeks, with good skiing on at least 12-13 of those. I estimate Mt. Waterman got about 300 inches snowfall in 2004-05.
2005-06: The first big snow storm of the season was March 10-11. If Waterman had permits, it would have been open about 4 weeks after that.
2006-07: With only 43 inches natural snowfall Waterman would not have opened at any time even if it had permits.
2007-08: Mt. Waterman passed lift inspections in October 2007 and patrol was working on the mountain since the early January storm. Despite having a 7 foot base since late January, opening was delayed until February 16 by road closure and kitchen inspection. March 15 was Waterman's last day of this season due to financial and staffing considerations. As an ongoing business Mt. Waterman probably could have operated from early January to late March in 2008.
2008-09: Mt. Waterman was open (Fri-Sun) Dec. 21 – Jan. 12 and Feb. 9 – Mar. 15.
2009-10: Due to mudslides after the Station Fire, Mt. Waterman opened as of the weekend March 13-14 via the Big Tujunga alternate route, open Fri-Sun through April 18. Without the road problems Waterman could have been open starting about Jan. 23.
2010-11: Mt. Waterman opened January 7 on a Friday-Sunday schedule via the same Big Tujunga detour as last season but closed after MLK weekend. Mt. Waterman had its usual road difficulties from the February storms but finally opened Feb. 27 and resumed its Friday-Sunday schedule. Mt. Waterman was closed during the March storm weekend but was open 3 days a week the next 2 weekends. April 3 was closing day despite a deeper base than Mt. Baldy.

Then the last 3 seasons with not enough snow to open.

Estimated number of weekends Mt. Waterman was or could have been open since 1997:
2, 13, 2, 7, 10, 0, 2, 4, 17, 4, 0, 12, 9, 12, 8, 0, 0, 0.
That’s an average of less than 6 weeks per season.

The prior 21 years look somewhat better, averaging about 8 weeks, but 5 of those 21 were still wipeouts similar to the last 3 years when perhaps the upper lifts could have run a week or two, but there was clearly not enough snow at any time to open the face. Road issues are not new either. 1977-78 was one of the better SoCal seasons, but Mt. Waterman's access road was closed by mudslides all of February and March.

The real difference between now and “the good old days” for Mt. Waterman is not absolute snow conditions, but conditions relative to Big Bear in particular, which gets half as much natural snow but now has world class snowmaking. Through the 1970’s the snowmaking was more limited, and Waterman probably had better snow than Big Bear more often than not. But on an absolute scale SoCal natural snow skiing has always been hit or miss.

There were many season we closed down operations and opened for sightseers for $10 each. If you wanted to bring your skis and find a line(which you could) we were ok with that. I set up a BBQ at the bottom and sold soda and beers out of an ice chest.