Keystone, CO 1-8-2023

[EMSC]

It was a decent, sunny day that started off cold at ~5F and warmed nicely to the upper 20's.

My son had slalom races (4 runs) so a very busy day for him. Many may remember that I generally don't like Keystone. Not a lot of snowfall, poor layout (two gondolas, two 6packs, detach quad and a triple all meet within ~50 yards of each other for one example), crazy amount of crowding, etc... Of all the major Colo resorts I would put this as just about the most 'industrial' ski resort of them all. And the vibe just seems to me a bit like a toned down Hunter too. Absolutely Tons of people going way faster than their ability all while packed together in crazy numbers on most slopes. There are some OK spots especially off the Outback lift, but that is a bit of PITA to get to and there are no services out that far (food/warming up). And on and on. It's just not my kind of place.

The vast majority of the resort was open as far as I could tell. A few spots on the S facing trails toward North Peak and Outback excepted.

Surfaces were exactly what I expect of Keystone: early mourning groomed soft layer on top of very hard scratchy on most trails, with some nicely soft but a bit thin skiing on non-groomers. They did report 5" of new Sat am (the day prior) which made for nice snow on Outback and non-groomers. So in a lot of respects, minus the worst of the 'Eldora breeze', very Eldora like but on a much grander scale than Eldora could ever hope to be (something like 400 skiable acres vs 3000).

At any rate I did manage to get my wife back to the Outback for 2 runs first thing. That means the trails down to North peak and Outback were the best they can be before the crazy hordes scrape them off in short order. Then rushing back to the frontside for the race which was on far lookers right Richter trail. Decent pitch and challenge for racers, but still a very weird, at best, spot for races with a gully and literal road width section leading to lower Go Devil which was a terrible, icy mess of a trail that had to be skied each lap to get back to the lift. No spectator access outside of being capable of skiing that icy mess (not an issue for me, but many other parents are not ex-racers themselves to say the least).

Best snow at Keystone is always at Outback IMO.

Breck and the 10 mile range

Looking from North Peak back at the 'main' Dercum Mtn.

Welcome to industrial skiing.

With Industrial food prices to match. Not sure if Pete or Earl would really want their names attached to those kind of food prices for such unhealthy and uninspired fare...

I assume this might be ongoing snowmaking for a super pipe. They seemed to either have or be pushing around huge piles of snow with 2 groomers for all the other types of terrain features and jumps that I would expect to see...

Final pitch of the SL race into a gully.

We just missed (by 5 minutes) getting my son down to at least North Peak. This was his first ever time skiing Keystone.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

With Industrial food prices to match. Not sure if Pete or Earl would really want their names attached to those kind of food prices for such unhealthy and uninspired fare...

Thanks for posting this. It should be Exhibit A in the discussion from the other thread about U.S. vs. Euro food at ski areas from the standpoint of price (laughable) and variety (fried everything). That said; people are getting nationwide multi-resort season passes for a relative pittance. It shouldn't be a surprise that they're gouging for everything else, e.g. parking.

 

[ChrisC]

It should be Exhibit A in the discussion from the other thread about U.S. vs. Euro food at ski areas from the standpoint of price (laughable) and variety (fried everything).

This says it all!

 

[ChrisC]

Final pitch of the SL race into a gully.

Where's the finish? Looks almost like a GS course?!

 

[EMSC]

and variety (fried everything).

To be fair, they did offer what looked like some re-heated (likely Sysco provided) chili/soup and a salad at a different station, but none of those looked very appealing either. Combined with the prices, we were not at all impressed and more or less choked down some shared food out of need vs desire to eat it. I think Eldora is doing at least as good, plus has a couple nicer unique options (decent Gyro's for example) for less $ at their kitchen.

Where's the finish? Looks almost like a GS course?!

The yellow pads (barely visible) mark the finish line. The finish was still on the pitch with a long run out to the fencing below. Note the two people (hand timers) just above the yellow pad on skiers left. Should have waited to get a racer in the pic, but it was full gladiator-gear Slalom. Despite appearances, it was a pretty tight course for run #4 in this pic. Plenty of blow outs, near stops, hikes, etc... I'm probably 85% of the way down the course at this pic.

 

[ChrisC]

Of all the major Colo resorts I would put this as just about the most 'industrial' ski resort of them all. And the vibe just seems to me a bit like a toned down Hunter too. Absolutely Tons of people going way faster than their ability all while packed together in crazy numbers on most slopes.

I have a few friends that go to Keystone ...and they love it! I just nod approvingly, with no comments.

Perhaps Keystone is more East Coast skiing than early season Eldora?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Keystone will always have a place in my heart as the scene of my first lift-served run: wedging my way down Schoolmarm in the winter of 1980 on Breeze rentals! Although I went to various I-70 resorts eight or so times while living in Boulder, I didn't properly catch the ski bug until 20 years later.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have not been at Keystone since 1997, though I've been in Vail or Summit County 4x since then. I recall liking North Peak's groomers best.

I have a few friends that go to Keystone ...and they love it! I just nod approvingly, with no comments.

In 2011 my friend Richard went to Keystone while most of the Epic Forum group was at A-Basin.

The numbers (acreage vs. skier visits) say Breckenridge is the most "industrial" destination ski area. But Breck has very good high alpine above all that congestion.

 

[jimk]

First skied Keystone for a couple days in 2007, then for about half dozen days in 2015, then again for a day in 2020. It can be kind of busy with scraped surfaces from lots of skier traffic, but it can also be pretty dang good. While I wouldn't call it my favorite in CO, let's face it, when you spent 50 years skiing mostly in the mid-Atlantic a place like Keystone is the bomb! In the spring time the North Peak and Outback get quite fun. And when Schoolmarm has soft snow and low crowds it's a very long and beautiful green circle run.
View from Starfire trail:

Schoolmarm:

Acquiring a taste for Puma Bowl:

Spring bumps on Timberwolf Trail in the Outback:

 

[Tony Crocker]

View from Starfire trail:

I recall that being my favorite run there.

In the spring time the North Peak and Outback get quite fun.

Yes, but in regional context they don't compare in spring to A-Basin or the Breck alpine.

 

[ChrisC]

Keystone will always have a place in my heart as the scene of my first lift-served run: wedging my way down Schoolmarm in the winter of 1980 on Breeze rentals! Although I went to various I-70 resorts eight or so times while living in Boulder, I didn't properly catch the ski bug until 20 years later.

Keystone was the second mountain I skied out West. My family was living in Florida for 18 months while growing up - so we did the first ski trip out west to Summit Country. So we skied Breckenridge, Keystone, and Copper - when the resorts had interchangeable lift tickets and free shuttle buses. Keystone had 6" of new snow and its gondola - heaven to former East Coaster!

Keystone just has not evolved much in 25+ years since the Outback expansion. Its basic footprint has been frozen in time. Sure they added an Intrawest village, some glades, allowed some hike access to the bowls, and replaced a few old lifts, but nothing major. They have been living in the 80s/90s bubble of tree-lined slopes, night skiing, and bumps. Not really on trend with more alpine access, glades, and free skiing - especially when compared to its neighbors (Copper's bowls, Breack's Peak 8/7/6 alpine, ABasin, Loveland's highest lUSA lift, Winter Park's Cirque?Eagle, Vail's new bowls).

Long ago they should have installed some surface lifts up high - low capacity to deal with the windswept terrain. But to me, it's remained a relic - continuing only to offer scraped cruisers and some bumps.

Yes you can have fun there! But we also live in a world where everyone gets a trophy. Keystone 8 out of 10! However, you should rank places according to its competition/decibels, and Keystone really is in the bottom 20%/25% of Colorado experiences - if you don't throw the smaller mountains into the mix.

 

[tseeb]

My only day at Keystone was with my wife and son in 2006. I remember traversing/hiking up and skiing a bowl into some good trees with him. I thought it was OK, but while I have been back to Breck a couple of times, I've not been back to Keystone when limited days at both places were included on my Tahoe Vail passes.

After taking an early break at car to re-charge phone, I went into lodge ~ 2PM at the top of the Tram on my first day at Heavenly last week to eat the half PBJ sandwich that was my lunch every day last week. Their prices were high than what @EMSC posted for Keystone with Chicken Tenders at $21.50.

I also went into Zephyr Lodge at Northstar (report not yet posted here) on the previous day. I didn't check prices, but had a nice window seat at table where previous occupants had left a lot of food and I had view of my skis. They moved my skis multiple times as lodge closed early (HSQ with some gondolas that goes directly to lodge was only one at N* that day that closed due to wind) and they were putting away racks.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Keystone just has not evolved much in 25+ years since the Outback expansion. Its basic footprint has been frozen in time. Sure they added an Intrawest village, some glades, allowed some hike access to the bowls, and replaced a few old lifts, but nothing major. They have been living in the 80s/90s bubble of tree-lined slopes, night skiing, and bumps. Not really on trend with more alpine access, glades, and free skiing - especially when compared to its neighbors

Not arguing but it's always been a big favorite of families and a certain slice of destination visitors. In short, a perennial moneymaker. Thus, from a business standpoint, why fix it if it ain't broke (for its audience)? Maybe EMSC can clarify if that's true or not.

 

[ChrisC]

Not arguing but it's always been a big favorite of families and a certain slice of destination visitors. In short, a perennial moneymaker. Thus, from a business standpoint, why fix it if it ain't broke (for its audience)?

Not arguing. It's got to be one of the most profitable mountains out there - likely top 5?

Who knows what accountants and GAAP do to ski income statements, cash flows, and balance sheets? The real estate was all controlled by skico investors (or should have been), the place is only 75 miles from Denver, and it serves the largest slice of the skiing demographic.

Some old stats from 2018: ( Vail seems not to release breakdowns anyone....trade secret?!) These stats are likely really old....they are so many lists on the web:

• Vail Mountain, Colorado; Annual skier visits: 1,634,250
• Breckenridge Ski Resort, Colorado; Annual skier visits: 1,600,750
• Mammoth Mountain Ski Area, California; Annual skier visits: 1,128,500
• Keystone Resort, Colorado; Annual skier visits: 1,036,000
• Steamboat Ski & Resort, Colorado; Annual skier visits: 923,576
• Beaver Creek, Colorado; Annual skier visits: 919,000
• Heavenly Mountain Resort, California/Nevada; Annual skier visits: 890,750
• Northstar California Resort, California; Annual skier visits: 737,000
• Snowmass, Colorado; Annual skier visits: 732,251
• Okemo Mountain Resort, Vermont; Annual skier visits: 614,000

There are a lot of gaps in the above list of resorts that do not release numbers like Park City, Killington, etc.

 

[ChrisC]

from a business standpoint, why fix it if it ain't broke (for its audience)

And what is aspirational? I am more from the Howard Schultz model - copy something great from Europe and bring it to America. Of course, the USA perverts everything so we can have diabetes.....

Keystone is mediocre when it does not have to be.

Just think you good could raise the bar....but it's a formula that works...but I think industrial skiing in France is MUCH better than industrial Colorado - Keystone, Breck, etc.

I want to check out Keystone's expansion, ABasin and Copper....it's been a while. And Breckenridge - wow! Total transformation! I think its alpine competes well with Crested Butte/Telluride/Abasin/Loveland in Spring.