Kicking Horse 12/25 & 26 (now with Video!)

[longshanks]

Flew into Calgary from London ON on Christmas Morning and headed straight to Kicking Horse. The Sun was bright, traffic was light. The only "volume" was found near the Lake Louise exit and every vehicle in front and behind us turned off. We had the road quite literally to ourselves the rest of the way to Golden. We (my sons and I) made it up to the hill by about 1:30. KH was not busy at all and we managed to do about 14K for our warm up afternoon. A wicked inversion was in place with -15C at the base and around 0C at the top. Boxing Day was the same, Blue Bird, inverted with very low skier density. We hit all three bowls and the Boys (Skootch 16 & Wiggles 17), who had never been there before, got a real good feel for the lay of the land. We even found some untracked spots but you did have to work for them by traversing high etc. For Day 2 I did about 23K, and the lads did 28K. Santa that fat and jolly bugger delivered yours truly a Drift X170 Helmet Cam so I have been learning the ins and outs of my new toy. Here is a still for now... Shanks (a.k.a. The Indian Shepherd)

 

[longshanks]

Sadly I am back from our trip west and deeply entrenched in work...which is a good thing.The boys & I had an awesome trip over the Holidays. 4 blue bird days on the front end, 3 Powder days on the back end, 3 decent days in between. 10 days in all and rode every day. I estimate 250K+ vertical give or take 10K.

The driving was excellent by and large as traffic was light. Our travel schedule allowed us to miss the pass closings around us. The accommodations along the way were excellent and the hospitality in Rossland as always, was top shelf. Thanks again Wazy.I particularly enjoyed playing with the new Helmet Cam that Santa, that fat and jolly bastard, stuffed in my stocking. It has been a learning process and I have now posted the 1st effort on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Raub_znezc4(more to follow)

It may have been maybe the best trip ever (so far)...but, there was one fly in the ointment - 'ran out of gas on the Trans Canada about 60K from Calgary. Lucky me, and in spite of my stupidity, a kind Fellow and his young family stopped and rescued us from certain jeopardy. Anyway, we made it to the airport and through security in time for the 1st boarding call. There's a lesson in there some where...Shanks

 

[jamesdeluxe]

You go to Kicking Horse and post a five-minute video of a boarder on a groomed trail?!?!
:-s

 

[Tony Crocker]

You go to Kicking Horse and post a five-minute video of a boarder on a groomed trail?!?!

For 4,133 vertical feet :lol:

 

[longshanks]

You go to Kicking Horse and post a five-minute video of a boarder on a groomed trail?!?!

For 4,133 vertical feet :lol:

Well boys, I sorry to have disappointed you...NOT! There should be one of those fruity emoticon things for "kissmyass"
I did say it was my first effort, and with a stellar bluebird day like we had at the Horse on Boxing Day, why not go top to bottom on a groomed run? There had been no fresh in a while...I guess everybody is a critic... Anyway, I had the Cam attached on a Goggle Strap mount and rough terrain caused it to rattle against my helmet. I have since changed it to the more secure Helmet mount. Did you notice the crowds at KH? Now that is my kind of Skier Density.. I have plenty more raw vid stock and have posted a couple more vids from Red (Powder Fields etc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPROAmuiUQ with more to come. I also have a bunch from Revelstoke from our last two days in the Pow there but it takes time and time is money...or so I'm told. Shanks

 

[Tony Crocker]

No criticism intended from me. I don't have the patience to edit video; the still pics are enough work. The vertical comment was the explanation for why the video was 5 minutes long.

Now that is my kind of Skier Density

For so much vertical KH and Revelstoke are impressive for low skier density. In the US Big Sky/Moonlight is probably the only place comparable. All of these places have other issues though.

 

[longshanks]

No criticism intended from me. I don't have the patience to edit video; the still pics are enough work. The vertical comment was the explanation for why the video was 5 minutes long.

Now that is my kind of Skier Density

For so much vertical KH and Revelstoke are impressive for low skier density. In the US Big Sky/Moonlight is probably the only place comparable. All of these places have other issues though.

Hey, I hear ya...I jumped the gun on that. I couldn't believe how non-busy KHMR was on the 25th and 26th. Revy was little busier on the 27th and a fair amount busier again on the 28th but with the size of the place you could hardly notice it until you looked at the parking lot. You are correct sir, both resorts are very impressive for their big vert/snow quality/low skier density combo. I gotta believe that will change over time as more people add these spots to their hit list. I feel privaleged to have been able to enjoy both from their early beginnings onward. I really like RMR but the whole 5620' of vert is a bit misleading. The base is just too low. The mountain really is at best 4720' because the bottom 900' is hardly ever good enough to enjoy. And, the last 1200 above the Day Lodge is usually pretty heavy as well so call it 3500' of good skiing. The exception being those few days when it is cold and snowing all the way down to the valley - but that never lasts for very long. The proposed build out (if it happens) will eliminate having to deal with the low elevation muck and we'll be able to stay up high.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Revelstoke is laid out better than Kicking Horse. You can stay on the 2 upper lifts (2,080 and 1,700 vertical) if you want. When I was there the snow on the 4,720 vertical was fine all the way to the day lodge. It will probably be better for many when that day lodge gets moved up to the top of the gondola.

At Kicking Horse the majority of the upper runs force you to ski to the bottom, which gets a lot less snow than the bottom at Revelstoke. It does appear that grooming and snowmaking on the lower part of Kicking Horse have been improved since my early visits in 2002 and 2005.

 

[longshanks]

Revelstoke is laid out better than Kicking Horse. You can stay on the 2 upper lifts (2,080 and 1,700 vertical) if you want. When I was there the snow on the 4,720 vertical was fine all the way to the day lodge. It will probably be better for many when that day lodge gets moved up to the top of the gondola.
I know that is in the "plan" but I will believe it when I see it...another lift to the top servicing the South Bowl from around where Jalepeno & Devil's Club meet would get my vote

At Kicking Horse the majority of the upper runs force you to ski to the bottom, which gets a lot less snow than the bottom at Revelstoke. It does appear that grooming and snowmaking on the lower part of Kicking Horse have been improved since my early visits in 2002 and 2005.

Well 2005 was shyte everyehere - and yes I have been at the Horse at other times when the bottom was no good...but at 1189m, thats 677m better that Revy - The Horse just needs some snow and cold temps to make it work, Revy needs a lot of each. For my last few Horse visits, the Bottom has been in good shape. I really like the selection of terrain serviced by the two bottom surface lifts - lots of long rolling cruisers make it an excellent warm-up stop but 2 Days is the longest I have/would ever stay there - unless you're lucky to be there when the big pow hits - then all bets are off.

 

[Tony Crocker]

another lift to the top servicing the South Bowl from around where Jalepeno & Devil's Club meet would get my vote

Yes, but that's maybe 1/4 of the upper terrain at Revy. Compare to at least 2/3 of upper terrain at Kicking Horse that forces you to ski to the bottom. And Revelstoke is in only its 3rd season while KH is in its 9th.

If Revy pushes south into the current snowcat terrain, that lift will probably be built. These areas are not as alike as they might seem to the outside observer. For steep technical lines Kicking Horse has them in abundance. Revelstoke is mostly a consistent fall line mountain like Sun Valley or the front side of Blackcomb. As far as snow is concerned at any given elevation it's safe to assume Revelstoke gets 50% more than Kicking Horse.

 

[longshanks]

another lift to the top servicing the South Bowl from around where Jalepeno & Devil's Club meet would get my vote

Yes, but that's maybe 1/4 of the upper terrain at Revy. Compare to at least 2/3 of upper terrain at Kicking Horse that forces you to ski to the bottom. And Revelstoke is in only its 3rd season while KH is in its 9th.

If Revy pushes south into the current snowcat terrain, that lift will probably be built. These areas are not as alike as they might seem to the outside observer. For steep technical lines Kicking Horse has them in abundance. Revelstoke is mostly a consistent fall line mountain like Sun Valley or the front side of Blackcomb. As far as snow is concerned at any given elevation it's safe to assume Revelstoke gets 50% more than Kicking Horse.

50%...I'm not convinced of that even given your superior long term data. Maybe I'd give you 25-30% but not 50. KHMR has had some good years lately as you know. That, and as you said, RMR is only in year 3. Was snow fall recorded up there before on a regular basis? - Likely... It's tough to sell me a long term arguement when we are talking 3 & 9 years respectively. Now, the Horse was White Tooth and Revy was Powder Springs but each of those were low elevation terrain with Cat operations above. So where did you mine the Data to support 50%? If you look at the numbers from Roger's Pass and use Mt. Fidelity's values then I think you have to adjust those figures down because Mt Mac is not Mt Fidel...I'd be happy to stand down if you are able to offer empirical evidence to the contrary.

 

[longshanks]

Tony...what? no rebuttal? No response to the Challenge...how un-American of you. You must be skiing...Shanks

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have adjusted Mt. Fidelity's numbers down, comparing Revelstoke's limited data to the same months at Mt. Fidelity. And also confirmed them with Leslie Anthony, who has been backcountry skiing in the area for decades. So I get ~375 for Revelstoke vs. 490 at Fidelity. I do not have data for Kicking Horse but their "brochure claims" seem credible: 256-275 in the upper terrain. By their own admission they only get about 100 at the base. When the base is both lower and leeward of the mountain crest, snowfall tends to drop precipitously. Park City is a classic example, and you can see this effect at Squaw Valley and Jackson Hole to some degree also. There's a lot of snow on the ground in the town of Revelstoke despite its low elevation as it's on the windward side. I do have reservations about surface conditions on the lower mountain given sunny exposure along with the low elevation. I think you want to be there in Jan/Feb not in March.

The ski area on Mt. MacKenzie is in fact a somewhat low snow microclimate within its region. Perhaps this contributes to the anomalous tree density also. There's quite a bit of terrain nearby (Monashees across the river, Selkirks farther south not shadowed by the Monashees) in addition to the Rogers Pass/Fidelity area that get ~500 inches. Leslie Anthony confirmed these impressions also.

 

[longshanks]

That's fascinating...I stand down. The resident confirmation does it for me as you can't beat local knowledge. I was just there late December & early January and was happy with the conditions - I was also there in March 09 and I would have to give the early season the nod over the late. From what I have read...it would have been very good there this weekend - but how far down would still be variable.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I also have a limited amount of real data. 27 months at Great Northern Snowcat (near Trout Lake just south of the Galena ferry crossing) almost identical to Mt. Fidelity for the same months. Also from Environment Canada Mt. Copeland in the Monashees ~50 miles NW of Revelstoke. Comparing the 27 months of data there to the same at Mt. Fidelity Mt. Copeland averages 596 inches, the highest data I've ever seen for a non-coastal location. CMH and Wiegele anecdotally claim 800 for their Monashee operations but do not have actual data from where they ski to back up those claims. Nonetheless 600 inches of 7-8% intermountain powder is impressive in anybody's book.

 

[longshanks]

...Also from Environment Canada Mt. Copeland in the Monashees ~50 miles NW of Revelstoke. Comparing the 27 months of data there to the same at Mt. Fidelity Mt. Copeland averages 596 inches, the highest data I've ever seen for a non-coastal location...

Now that's interesting, as I've always understood that Mount Fidelity was the snowiest place in Canada, check out...http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/Canada/snowiest.php

or for more of the same, check out Ryan (Powderwatch) Wilson's Facebook notes
http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=515984914#/notes.php?id=515984914 There is some other very cool content as well. I will also assume that you are already aware of these sources...

 

[Tony Crocker]

The first reference is clearly incomplete (no Whistler Roundhouse???) since Mt. Fidelity is the only place listed over 400 inches. The Fidelity number is higher than mine because I only count November to April.

There are a lot of places up there that get a ton of snow. Unfortunately very few of those places are accessible enough for daily snowfall recording. Mt. Fidelity is the only one with extensive data.