Kicking Horse, BC - 03/26/07

[ChrisC]

Thought I would belatedly write this up since I liked the mountain so much....


What was suppose to be a late March trip to the Red Mt. area was cut short due to warm temps and rain....instead, an epic car ride and detour to Kicking Horse & Banff. (Red was mush with a possibility of a deep freeze.)

Kicking Horse ranks up there with the best expert hills (Snowbird, Jackson, Whistler, etc) with its massive vertical (4000'), low skier density, super accessible sidecountry, and quality terrain.

Loved it. And it's still cheap.

It does have some faults: lots of ridge skiing, only one real lift (some weekend lines) and iffy base snow. But overall, I really liked the combination of seeking out a hairy chute or bowl...followed by a 2000' vertical cruiser at mach speed to the base...to quickly be repeated via HS Gondola with no waiting. Great snow quality up high too.

I would not recommend this area to intermediates. There is not enough terrain with only really one easily accessible mountain bowl.

Here are some pics from the 2nd day after an 8-12" dump. Still many fresh lines to be had. Also, we explored some of the sidecountry with friendly locals (Swedes and Canadians) after lunch....went and got gear.


Kicking Horse Map

Base. The good stuff is not even visible.

Views.

Gondola over Bowl Over

Bowl Over. No intermediate way into this area despite its rating.

Bowl Over. Some chutes.

Bowl Over. From below.

Untouched line into Feuz Bowl. People unwilling to do a 5 min hike?

More Feuz. Note the person in the upper right on cornice.

Powder. Feuz. Repeat.

CPR Ridge. Gondola rises up this ridge.

Late day CPR

Token sign at Gondola summit for CPR chutes.

Overview of Crystal Bowl. The only intermediate skiing on the upper mountain.
\

Some hike-to (20 min) chutes off Terminator Ridge.]

More chutes I liked off Redemption Ridge into Fuez Bowl

Sidecountry. Super Bowl. Bring some beacons. It is stellar and so easily accessible. A 4000 ft vert lap via gondola.

Some 4pm Sloppy Seconds in Feuz Bowl. Still room for fresh tracks late in the day.

 

[Patrick]

Thought I would belatedly write this up since I liked the mountain so much....

Thank you Chris. Great pics. Kicking Horse was included on planned trip this Winter, but unfortunately I had decided to cancel my trip out due to circumstances out of my control. :?

Don't worry, you're not alone posting belated reports. J.Spin has already posted a few very detailed ones in the Eastern section. :wink: These reports are always useful for future reference. :-k

 

[salida]

Nice pictures. Place looks awesome.

 

[Tony Crocker]

What was suppose to be a late March trip to the Red Mt. area was cut short due to warm temps and rain....instead, a epic car ride and detour to Kicking Horse & Banff.

Deja vu from my trip in January 2005. But you had a whole lot better once you got there. Sort of a combination of my 2002 loose powder up top and the good lower cruisers from January this year. You were fortunate to get that combination. And like jamesdeluxe at Banff fortunate to be in one of the few regions not experiencing the March heat wave at that time.

In late March you are generally better off in the colder climate of Banff/Kicking Horse than the PNW influenced Red and Fernie. In 1999 Adam and I experienced a happy exception to that rule of thumb: http://far.redtree.com/1999/reports/cgmrep990329.html

 

[ChrisC]

What was suppose to be a late March trip to the Red Mt. area was cut short due to warm temps and rain....instead, a epic car ride and detour to Kicking Horse & Banff.

Deja vu from my trip in January 2005. But you had a whole lot better once you got there. Sort of a combination of my 2002 loose powder up top and the good lower cruisers from January this year. You were fortunate to get that combination. And like jamesdeluxe at Banff fortunate to be in one of the few regions not experiencing the March heat wave at that time.

In late March you are generally better off in the colder climate of Banff/Kicking Horse than the PNW influenced Red and Fernie. In 1999 Adam and I experienced a happy exception to that rule of thumb: http://far.redtree.com/1999/reports/cgmrep990329.html

Totally agree. I never thought Washington skiing was very good during March. The new snow was always heavy. The elevations are too low and require low light...near the December Solstice is important. However, this was a late January trip delayed to March due to many reasons.

I found out Feuz Bowl was essentially preserved for us (only open half a day before) and Terminator Ridge too.

I was really impressed with the Kicking Horse Sidecountry/Backcountry. (You know you are in a good spot when only Nordic languages are spoken. (What do they do? Ski hard. Retire with injuries to the best welfare states. They are the powder cockroaches of Europe, being inflicted on Canada, soon invading the US)). Aside: Comparitavely - Telluride locals are bunch of hippie snots, Canadians/Scandis - very accommodating.

How bad does the base area get during the bad years?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Pretty bad. http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... .php?t=608 . KH should be avoided in low snow years unless they put in more upper-mountain-only lift capacity.

My more detailed comments from another 2005 thread:

I found your Chatter Creek report quite consistent with what I observed at Kicking Horse: excellent snow above 7000 ft. The problem is that Kicking Horse's layout forces you to ski down through 2000+ vertical of crap to reload the gondola and get back to the goods.

There was some discussion of this with the Calgary skiers at Great Northern. Supposedly the KH developers are in it for the real estate profit and have cut corners on the ski development, planning to sell and let someone else do the upgrades. Examples cited:

1) No gondola midstation. Seems obvious with the glaring difference between upper and lower mountain conditions. This year it's more extreme but it's a chronic problem and also results in delayed opening of the mountain. One of these years it will cost them Christmas, as it probably did their opening season 2000-01.
2) It may be heresy on this board but KH is undergroomed. This is mostly a midmountain issue. The Calgary skiers said that old logging tree stumps would need to be removed and they didn't want to spend the money.
3) Snowmaking. The lower mountain averages less than 100 inches per season. Sorry, they need it down there.
4) The new Stairway to Heaven chair is a conventional quad. The Calgary skiers said it's easily convertible to high speed, but they prefer to let the next owner pay for the upgrade.

By both our observations in 2007 point #2 above has been corrected. We don't know about #3 because there was so much natural snow this year, but I'm skeptical. Problems #1 and #4 remain. In good years there is an upside as skier density in Feuz Bowl and Super Bowl (20-minute hike required, I haven't seen it) is extremely low. Since Chatter Creek is going to be a annual event for me for awhile, I will have the opportunity to observe future progress at Kicking Horse.

 

[Patrick]

Thanks Tony for pointing out the flaws at KH. #1 was the primary reason why I choose to do a Jasper/Banff trip and not a KH-Banff in late March 2002.

That is alot of vertical for late season snow, especially when the top is so good. Geez, that sounds almost like that last day at Wildcat. :wink: Not that the bottom was so bad, but the variation in snow coverage and quality varied greatly over 2100', so I can just imagine how it could be at Kicking Horse.

Regarding the Kicking Horse development, I've read that the place isn't the gold mine that the developers hoped it would be. It is one of the reasons why I believe that new ski area development in BC should be carefully thought of, the few areas that exists aren't the bonanzas that people would've hoped. Especially when you consider that Mt. Mackenzie (Revelstoke) is apparently now on track. How many new ski area (or expansion) that the economy sustain? And I'm not even talking about the environment.

Sorry for the hijack, back to the regular KH report. KH is on my Western short list (with Red, Fernie and Castle).

 

[Tony Crocker]

March 15, 2002 was my first time at Kicking Horse http://216.250.243.13/discus2/messages/ ... 1016407205 , and Patrick would not have been disappointed if he had gone there that season.

I strongly advise having a car and some flexibility doing these ski trips out of Calgary. The Fernie/Castle climate is quite different from Banf/KH/Panorama and it is not uncommon for the skiing to be great in one of the climate zones when it's subpar in the other. MacKenzie will introduce a 3rd climate zone into the equation, about 1 1/2 hours west of Golden/KH.

To continue Patrick's "hijack," I was informed by a NASJA officer who lives there that Kelowna airport is expanding its flight schedule and will likely become a more popular gateway to Canadian skiing. It's about 2 hours from Revelstoke, and already has Big White, Apex and Silver Star closer. If Revelstoke and Kicking Horse are your ski priorities you're probably better off going through Kelowna than Calgary.

Given the mountain barriers and less than direct roads, Red/Whitewater are much closer to Spokane than any of the Canadian gateways.

That is a lot of vertical for late season snow

We westerners do not view late March as "late season." Only the worst preserved areas or those having poor seasons ever lose any terrain/vertical before April.

 

[Patrick]

To continue Patrick's "hijack," I was informed by a NASJA officer who lives there that Kelowna airport is expanding its flight schedule and will likely become a more popular gateway to Canadian skiing. It's about 2 hours from Revelstoke, and already has Big White, Apex and Silver Star closer. If Revelstoke and Kicking Horse are your ski priorities you're probably better off going through Kelowna than Calgary.

Road into west of Revelstoke passes through Eagle Pass...which isn't to back I guess. However the road to the East through Rogers Pass toward Golden can be very difficult and affected by avalanches and is subject to closures. This info was mentioned to me by a good friend that was a Revelstoke for a few years.

 

[ChrisC]

I heard that Cranbrook - near Kimberley - was also expanding its airport to accommodate larger aircraft and doubling its terminal size.

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/cranbrook/

This would be another desirable access point to the interior Canadian resorts like Red, Fernie, Kicking Horse, etc.

 

[Tony Crocker]

NASJA was promised that expanded air service to Cranbrook back in 2003 when they awarded the 2006 annual meeting to Kimberley. When the time came airfares were high, and with poor connections travel time was 9 hours from LA or 12 from NYC when I checked. I was never going to that meeting anyway because it was the same time as the Egypt solar eclipse. But it's got to be better 99% of the time to fly cheaper to Calgary or Spokane and rent a car, which you will need anyway in that area. Kalispell/Big Mountain is a good gateway too.

I am told that the combination of resort and poor/expensive access resulted in subpar NASJA attendance at Kimberley in 2006.

 

[ChrisC]

NASJA was promised that expanded air service to Cranbrook back in 2003 when they awarded the 2006 annual meeting to Kimberley. When the time came airfares were high, and with poor connections travel time was 9 hours from LA or 12 from NYC when I checked. But it's got to be better 99% of the time to fly cheaper to Calgary or Spokane and rent a car, which you will need anyway in that area. Kalispell/Big Mountain is a good gateway too.

I am told that the combination of resort and poor/expensive access resulted in subpar NASJA attendance at Kimberley in 2006.

I kind of thought that. Unfortunate about the conference. People were probably going to have to go through a Canadian hub to Cranbrook. With layover, flight, transfer and $, probably the same time and a lot cheaper to use Calgary.

Kalispell, MT while convenient is quite expensive. Not just airfares, but car rentals too. I looked into this year. Spokane vs. Kalispell from SFO with a car for 5 days is a 300% difference.

 

[ChrisC]

Pretty bad. http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... .php?t=608 . KH should be avoided in low snow years unless they put in more upper-mountain-only lift capacity.

My more detailed comments from another 2005 thread:

I found your Chatter Creek report quite consistent with what I observed at Kicking Horse: excellent snow above 7000 ft. The problem is that Kicking Horse's layout forces you to ski down through 2000+ vertical of crap to reload the gondola and get back to the goods.

There was some discussion of this with the Calgary skiers at Great Northern. Supposedly the KH developers are in it for the real estate profit and have cut corners on the ski development, planning to sell and let someone else do the upgrades. Examples cited:

1) No gondola midstation. Seems obvious with the glaring difference between upper and lower mountain conditions. This year it's more extreme but it's a chronic problem and also results in delayed opening of the mountain. One of these years it will cost them Christmas, as it probably did their opening season 2000-01.
2) It may be heresy on this board but KH is undergroomed. This is mostly a midmountain issue. The Calgary skiers said that old logging tree stumps would need to be removed and they didn't want to spend the money.
3) Snowmaking. The lower mountain averages less than 100 inches per season. Sorry, they need it down there.
4) The new Stairway to Heaven chair is a conventional quad. The Calgary skiers said it's easily convertible to high speed, but they prefer to let the next owner pay for the upgrade.

By both our observations in 2007 point #2 above has been corrected. We don't know about #3 because there was so much natural snow this year, but I'm skeptical. Problems #1 and #4 remain. In good years there is an upside as skier density in Feuz Bowl and Super Bowl (20-minute hike required, I haven't seen it) is extremely low. Since Chatter Creek is going to be a annual event for me for awhile, I will have the opportunity to observe future progress at Kicking Horse.

We rode the Gondola with a novice snowboard woman from Whitehorse, Yukon (I was totally interested in who spends their life there) but my point is -- she asked "Why no Gondola Mid-Station?" It so glaringly obvious, that it's pathetic from a 2000+ resort planning perspective.

Also, I do not think the gondola runs at typical gondola capacity - 2400 skier/hr. Look at the spacing. Although I think this has to do with the length/vertical rise of lift - I'm no lift mechanic. I would almost argue they are almost at capacity now - gondola-wise. You don't go all the way to Kicking Horse there to be stuck on a crowded lift. I think a mid-station would also solve the capacity issue since it's really two separate lifts, allow more cars and capacity. I would hate to see Kicking Horse go the way of Jackson with its 45-60 min tram waits.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I would hate to see Kicking Horse go the way of Jackson with its 45-60 min tram waits.

Supposedly that happened on opening weekend in December this season. Like Castle Mt. the limited lift capacity can be overwhelmed by Calgary daytrippers. Midweek both places are quite empty.

If KH gets more popular they will have to do something. At Jackson you can get along quite well without the tram when conditions are good. 30-year resident Bob Peters said he didn't miss the JH tram at all the past year.

 

[richedie]

Looks amazing.

For a trip, one problem I have is the lack of snow. I tend to look for resorts of mountains that receive 400-500" a year in frequent dumps.

Are there any in this are that get that much snow?

 

[Tony Crocker]

400-500 inches is a short list anywhere. Most of the places that get that much are on the West Coast and get some rain along with the snow. Kirkwood and the Whistler alpine (you can probably also include Mammoth and Mt. Bachelor with blown-in snow) are high enough to avoid the rain but the snow will still be 10+% water content most of the time.

400+ with lower water content is a rarity. In the U.S. the lift service list consists of Grand Targhee and Utah's Cottonwood Canyons. In Canada Whitewater is closest but that's a small area unless your focus is on AT/telemark side and backcountry.

Fernie's snowfall is just under 400 and the weather comes from Washington State. It's a microclimate that does get more light and dry snow, but also gets a lot of rain.

In Canada the Selkirks and Monashees north of Nelson do get 400+ above 5,000 feet. That's why there are so many snowcat and heli operators up there. The top 2,000 vertical of the new Revelstoke area will be in this zone, but that won't be the first part developed, and the predominant south exposure is a big flaw.

As I've said many times before, there are no guarantees for any ski trip planned far in advance. I've found that out even with the cat and heliskiing.

I'll also repeat Canadian Steve Threndyle's comment that "every western Canadian area has at least one significant flaw." That's why I'm a big believer in the flexible schedule with a rental car.

I guess I should also mention Japan's Niseko, which averages 150 inches per month from December to February. It's low altitude, so months outside that range should be avoided.

 

[ChrisC]

That's why I'm a big believer in the flexible schedule with a rental car.

My trip was supposed to be confined to the Red/Whitewater/Schweitzer area with a snowcat day kicked in - hopefully last minute after a storm.

These plans did not materialize. Instead there were nearly 60F temps, sun and some rain...to be followed by an expected cool down. Frozen spring conditions -without warming- are the worst. Depressing.

Looking around Big Mt and Fernie were similarly screwed. Castle even shut down in mid-March never to reopen. All cats stopped running.


Internet bookings, traveling with just one other guy, and stamina -- got us into some great conditions at Kicking Horse, Lake Louise and Sunshine. Much better than icy death slides into the trees at Red.

 

[richedie]

Are Kicking Horse, Lake Louise and Sunshine near each other????? Might be a future trip!

The thoughts on higher snowfall totals is a big reason i have been to the Cottonwoods, and the Ogden area of Utah. Most of the time, I have gotten good snow and at least found it out of bounds. I have not always been so lucky at Whistler, or California.

For this reason, I return to Utah a lot. I don't get a lot of chances out west so I like them to count!

 

[Admin]

Are Kicking Horse, Lake Louise and Sunshine near each other????? Might be a future trip!

We've got a handy-dandy little tool for just such a question:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index. ... play&pid=7

(Funny that even though that map contains the proposed Jumbo Glacier Resort we had somehow missed including Kicking Horse, but I just went in and fixed that.)

Kicking Horse is a 53-mile drive from Lake Louise to Golden, the town below Kicking Horse, but that's over some high elevation mountain passes via the TransCanada Highway 1 so it can be nasty at times during the winter. One could include Panorama in a loop if so inclined. A number of years ago I did a similar loop from Calgary but further south: Sunshine :arrow: Lake Louise :arrow: Panorama :arrow: Fernie :arrow: Castle Mountain.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I've done the same loop as admin twice, in the opposite direction. Great trip, highly recommended. Fernie/Castle have a substantially different climate from KH/Banff. The latter was way better for ChrisC this year, but often it's the other way around.