Long term powder destinations - Targhee vs. Wolf Creek

[kmartshopper]

Assume a brother has decided that a more snow, lower crowds, non-extreme, place like Grand Targhee is just perfect... except for the fact that he is well aware that "Grand Fogee" has earned it's nickname.

So on paper, it would seem to the uneducated that Wolf Creek CO is of similar stature as Targhee. (assuming a brother was going to ignore pay-per-view cat served terrain at Targhee).

So we are speaking in the 1500-2000 acre range... The 450 - 500 inches snow range. The less than 'wtf, am I back in New England' crowd range (ie. all of Utah except for powmow, imho). The "I have no need to post gopro vids to youtube to prove my masculinity' range. The "I friggen love me those flowy blue powder turns so much more than dropping big colouirs" range.

With those assumptions, I'm really wondering... Could Wolf Creek really be as awesome as Targhee, but with 2X-3X as much sun? Is elevation the leveling factor? Seems to good to be true. Also wondering how they might ride in the spring? Can the elevation alone (WC) really make CO a better bet late season? I'm really ready to go all-in on Targhee at this point, even with the fog... but will readily admit that the visibility (or lake thereof) is a notable downer. If I could find similar vibe/conditions at Wolf Creek with lots more sun, I'd be all over it.

Just looking for any experiences you all might have.... please don't factor in the fact that you can legally grow 6 plants for private use in CO. Or so I've read.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Targhee skis much bigger than Wolf Creek. It gets more snow (472 vs. 392) and is much more consistent (standard deviation 21% of average vs. 27%).

Is elevation the leveling factor? Seems to good to be true. Also wondering how they might ride in the spring? Can the elevation alone (WC) really make CO a better bet late season?

Actually in regional context you could argue that Targhee at 8,000 - 10,200 in the Northern Rockies is higher than Wolf Creek at 10,350 - 11,775 in the Southwest. BUT Targhee's exposure is west (longest fall lines are more SW) and Wolf Creek's is north. If you get "Grand Foghee" the exposure won't matter, but the stronger the sun is, the more likely you'll get heavy snow or crust. If powder is your priority, you want the fog/overcast at Targhee, just like you want it to be very cold at Jackson Hole.

February or earlier I'd pick Targhee, March 15 or later Wolf Creek. Early March is a tradeoff: Targhee is likely better most of the time but the downside (sunny weather) will be more difficult than Wolf Creek, which has exceptional snow preservation with its altitude/exposure combination. No guarantees here: I've had the fog/overcast and good snow at Targhee in March and the sun crust in January. But when exposure is the issue, you want to avoid late season if planning ahead. In bad exposure 1-2 hours of sun is enough to kill the powder in spring.

 

[EMSC]

It's been quite a while since I've been to targhee, but I would add that my memory thinks that their are longer fall lines at targhee - though neither are all that big in vertical.

Wolf Creek also tends to get a lot of its snow in huge dumps vs more frequent 6-12" refreshers. So the powder is incredible when it comes, but more variable in frequency.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

longer fall lines at targhee - though neither are all that big in vertical.

I can only address Grand Targhee (never skied WC), but GT's fall lines are very consistent, no flats that I can recall, with the pitch all in the "flowy blue" range that you're looking for. Here's an article from two years ago, if interested.

 

[Tony Crocker]

James' Targhee trip was in December, when Targhee is one of the very best ski options.

 

[EMSC]

GT's fall lines are very consistent, no flats that I can recall

Exactly. WC has more true steeps 'shots' than GT (many take some effort to get to though), but also plenty of flat run outs, traverses, etc...

 

[TRam]

I am assuming you need to plan this out in advance? I personally don't mind storm skiing/fog, unless I am skiing stuff with lots of exposure/cliffs/crowds. Targee dosen't have that and if I recall the tree skiing there is nice and that can help some with contrast in a storm. Tony is correct that the cloud cover helps perserve the snow there.
That said I am a big fan also of So CO where you could always have six plants. Why not do a day in Silverton as well and take out the Go Pro ( I know you want too.)

 

[takeahike46er]

Can't speak for Wolf Creek, but I have considered it as a way to hedge my bet if I ever gamble with a trip to Taos again.

Grand Targhee is a blast with a fresh snowfall. It's one giant powder glade. The fog can pose some visibility challenges for the top couple hundred feet off the Dreamcatcher lift, but otherwise Targhee has plenty of trees to provide frame of reference. Without recent snow and lots of sunshine (like this January) I am not sure that Targhee would be all that fun. I could be wrong, though. In my opinion, there's not a ton of variety in-bounds. At least there are other options near by.

I was at Grand Targhee two weeks ago, and it snowed steadily over the three days I was there for a total of 35". It was exactly what I was looking for. Big Sky delivered with 24" over the following three days. Gopro video included with cliff-hucking and colouir-dropping. :wink:

[vimeo]http://www.vimeo.com/59362700[/vimeo]

 

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[takeahike46er]

Thanks for the tip! Was missing the www.

 

[kmartshopper]

I wasn't really clear that I was talking about spending eternity, or at least all winter in one spot. Also that I've spent time in Targhee enough to move it to the top of my list. I haven't been to WC though, and thought it sounded similar so had me wondering.

Only real downside was the fog for me. I can manage, and there are plenty of trees... but who does't live for blue bird days... so thought if all else was equal, WC might rule. The farming options are somewhat of a secondary consideration.

At Targhee, even the blacks are essentially flowy blues - nothing too aggressive inbounds with the exception of one cliff section that I avoid and one little coloir which I do. Like some of you said - it does have a nice even pitch and traverses are snowboardable (except the return from Sacajawea when it's soft). Sounds like WC might be a bit worse in that regard.

Interesting point about the frequency and size of dumps. WC just did just get 48" over a few days from the last storm. Definitely would prefer four 12" storms spaced out.

I find myself wondering from Tony's reply is whether the better altitude/exposure at WC is enough to overcome the sunnyness and latitude so the chop stays as soft for as long as it does at Targhee between snows (on average, across the season). Also, just generally, is it really that sunny in the mountains in CO? Seems amazing it can snow that much and still be that sunny.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Tony Crocker]

For an entire season, I think Wolf Creek is a really small mountain. And when you want to ski somewhere else for a change of pace, Jackson 1+ hour away vs. Durango or Monarch 2+ hours is really no contest. Silverton is an attraction (probably 3 hours), but it's not cheap and probably would be just once or twice a season.

And what is the definition of an entire season? If more of it falls before Feb. 28 than after March 15, that's another argument for Targhee.

Tony's reply is whether the better altitude/exposure at WC is enough to overcome the sunnyness and latitude so the chop stays as soft for as long as it does at Targhee between snows (on average, across the season).

Probably the same in snow preservation through February, with Wolf Creek being progressively better after that. But the dry intervals between storms will be longer at Wolf Creek.

Also, just generally, is it really that sunny in the mountains in CO? Seems amazing it can snow that much and still be that sunny.

2 issues here:
1) Does it snow more frequently and gradually or more in big dumps with longer dry spells in between? Targhee and most of Colorado fall into the more frequently group, with Wolf Creek a conspicuous exception. The Sierra is a prime example of the big dumps group, as are the Alps and most extreme the Andes. Some think of Utah as a "big dumps" region, but in fact snowfall standard deviations in Utah are similar to Colorado. Snowfall is equally consistent but just at a much higher level in the Cottonwoods.
2) What is the weather like when it's not snowing (at least half and probably more like 2/3 of days)? By my observation this is mostly driven by latitude and secondarily by being on the windward or leeward side of a mountain range. Nearly everywhere in California, Utah and Colorado tends to be sunny when not snowing. Western Canada and the Pacific Northwest tend to be overcast, as does Targhee. In those climates I think the overcast is more prevalent early and midwinter than in late season. A whole lot of these northern areas have less than ideal exposures which doesn't matter so much midwinter but can be a problem in March with both more sun and stronger sun.