More Telluride Mismanagement

[ChrisC]

In my continuing series of Telluride's owner mismanagement, I'd like to document the most recent craziness/debacle.

In this case - it has to do with Guiseppe's Cafe at the top of Lift 9/Plunge lift. It's really one of the most scenic ski restaurants in the U.S. The structure was an old coffee/espresso shop that sat at the base of Lift 7/Coonskin until Telluride expanded in 1986 and dragged it up to its 11,900 ft setting. It served Telluride well in the 1980/90s when skier days were 100-200k skier days, but its 30 seats do not really accommodate everyone today. But great outdoor space on sunny days.

Some photos: (A bit of Europe in the SW San Juans)

One of the best menus (New Orleans influenced) and most reasonable on-mountain restaurants n Telluride -- and perhaps the United States. Known for Black Bean Saute.

I even have a picture of Guiseppe's on my home wall:

Well somehow in the i2022/23 installation of Chair 9 / Plunge, the owner/mgmt/construction crews decided to destroy it!? IWTF?! It's now gone. Again, it just shows that Telluride cannot install a chairlift without complete chaos.

Chuck Horning (Telluride Owner) said he was going to rebuild and it would be the best, most scenic on-mountain restaurant in the United States. Architect selected. Very innovative design - a cross with a kitchen in the middle and 4 wings with varying views. Price: $20M.

Result: No. We will put up tents.

So Telluride destroys an iconic on-mountain restaurant - for a lift that took until February to open - without a planned replacement.

Now we have tents at 12k - great for cold weather days. Telluride also has permits for a 500-person restaurant at the top of Chair 5 - it's just an umbrella for 50.

He's way too focused on operational efficiencies versus the overall commercial value of the property. I cannot get into a real estate thing.....


Conclusion:

Everyone is waiting for Chuck Horning to get sick and retire - and sell. His sons are about as sharp as marbles. So it's now just a waiting game......and Telluride has to wait for its owner to go.


Next episode:

America's oldest 1st generation HS Quad - the death chair. Most likely to fall off a cable.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Shockingly reasonable menu prices, especially for the U.S.

 

[ChrisC]

Shockingly reasonable menu prices, especially for the

It’s Pre-pandemic, but you can still find places in Telluride….,

 

[jimk]

I was at Telluride in April 2019. Sorry I never stopped in at Guiseppi's. I got a photo of it though:

 

[Tony Crocker]

We had some gumbo at Giuseppe's in March 2019:

 

[ChrisC]

I am researching how Jackson Hole was sold. (I can do this!)

Think it’s a footprint for Telluride.

It’s easier raising money for Telluride than some tech startups.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I am researching how Jackson Hole was sold. (I can do this!)

The big picture, no financial details.

The Kemmerers wanted to keep JHMR under local family control and thus sold privately to some people who were already on the board of directors there.

Given everything ChrisC has said about Chuck Horning over the years, won't he eventually sell to the highest bidder, likely Vail, maybe Alterra?

 

[ChrisC]

It’s my side project.

But I would like to see if there is interest….

 

[jamesdeluxe]

We had some gumbo at Giuseppe's in March 2019:

Funny that a thread has developed about this tiny place -- what's the capacity, 20? I understand that it's a symptom of a more general problem there, but still.

 

[jimk]

Funny that a thread has developed about this tiny place -- what's the capacity, 20? I understand that it's a symptom of a more general problem there, but still.

As you can see from the photos, it was one of the most scenic and quaint in-bounds places to grab a snack in US skiing. Stunning views on a clear day! I hope whatever they replace it with does justice to the location.

By the way, in the upper right corner of Chris' first photo you get a good look at San Juan Chute, skiable by only the bodacious.

 

[ChrisC]

We now have water slides at Telluride. Late addition to the summer program:

Telluride is more IKON in ethos/spirit, but they need the operational efficiencies of a Vail to just get it together.


Last night, a failure in our snowmaking system resulted in a mudslide with debris going down the front hillside toward the base of the Lift 7 area. The system failure has been addressed, and clean-up is underway. Fortunately, no one was hurt. There was minor damage to a few buildings in the Lift 7 base area. The ski resort is handling all clean-up and is communicating with the HOAs of the damaged buildings.

 

[EMSC]

a failure in our snowmaking system resulted in a mudslide

Why is the snowmaking system pumping water in early Sept?

minor damage to a few buildings in the Lift 7 base area.

That would be interesting to see as the mud slide looks contained to the hill in the picture.

 

[ChrisC]

Ok. I am going to retract some of the above.

Telluride shared some of its plans regarding the replacement of Guiseppe's.

It's going to be good, perhaps too good. Why? While it will be much larger, the views over Bear Creek will be exceptional (see red circle in pic#2) and might lead to constant 'full' capacity. Especially since other high-on-mountain restaurants are sit-down and pricey. We will see what the menu is like.....TBD.

It will be available 2024/25.

If I had to pick a North American equivalent, it might be a bit similar to Kicking Horse's summit restaurant in size, aesthetics, and views.

Plans highlighting views to Bear Creek

 

[ChrisC]

Just an update:

If you need more evidence that Telski management is a sh-tshow, look at a simple on-mountain eatery renovation/reconstruction.

Almost 2 years later, this is still incomplete. And in the process, Telski neglected to get essential permits, so they pissed all authorities off.

We are just waiting for Telluride’s present owner to depart- however, whenever quickly. He’s a first-rate imbecile who alienates and repels everyone in the ski industry.

Guiseppe's (Winter Only) | Visit Telluride

Located at the top of the Plunge Lift 9, this local favorite offers comfort foods, snacks, beer and wine.

www.telluride.com

GUISEPPE'S (WINTER ONLY)​

Located at the top of the Plunge Lift 9, this local favorite offers comfort foods, sandwiches, soup, chili, snacks, beer and wine. Stop by to relax and soak in the views that stretch all the way to the La Sal Mountains in Utah.

*Please note: Guiseppe's is currently closed*

 

[ChrisC]

I thought I would provide an update because the level of mismanagement is so high! It is slightly comical and train wreck fascinating.

Late 2010s: Telluride Owner claims Giuseppe’s Replacement will be the finest on-mountain lodge in the USA.

Price comes back from vision statement : $30M+

Early 2020s: Scaled down Giuseppe’s replacement and plan. Maybe 25% of original?

Construction occurs in 2023.

Town or another authority cannot grant operational permit until a septic system is installed. Previously there was just outhouses and no running water. Telluride Owner refuses to spend $1.5 M on the system. So a half-constructed shell just sits there. Truly ridiculous!

I think Telluride is a perfect Harvard Business School case study on how not to run a ski business. Think Chuck Horning has managed to somewhat plateau skier days - while Jackson Hole with its Disney-trained CEO has installed a high-speed lift or lodge every other year … cresting 800K skier days. Telluride = Jackson Holes numbers in the 2000s at about 400-500k skier days.

Below - the most Beautiful Ski Lodge in America. I really think this sums up the ‘Tenure of Horning’. Vision to Execution. The Level of Incompetence is stunning;

We still have a functional Out House!

Small shack in middle - if Telski cut a window in it - it might be the most scenic John in the country.

 

[EMSC]

The Level of Incompetence is stunning;

Especially given the size and scope of a place like Telluride.

In the past I would have put the owner of Eldora as at least as incompetent, but then he finally sold to Powdr Corp and things have turned around for the good in a dramatic way under them. But now I get to worry about who the next owner will be since it's for sale.

 

[ChrisC]

Especially given the size and scope of a place like Telluride.

Telluride is a special place. Residents, Town Council, Alliances, Owners, Historical Review Boards, etc., all combine to create one of the most beautifully dysfunctional resort towns I know.

Makes San Francisco or Berkeley radically sane.

 

[ChrisC]

There is HOPE.

Everyone is tired of current management, and it’s time for a change.

Supposedly Aspen (not sure if Alterra) was in town last week doing due diligence and presenting a proposal. I heard this from a few sources (residents, brother, developers, ex town council members) so it seems more legitimate than most rumors.

Chuck Horning is 81 yo and people are ready for him to cash out. Don’t think his sons are interested.

I hear the number/offer from Aspen/Alterra is north of $300m - about $325m for an exact amount.

Jackson Hole just was sold to locals so I’m sure that’s a comparable.


It’s become very humorous to Telluride Locals that they are begging to be acquired by Aspen. At one point, Telluride prided itself being the Anti-Aspen.

 

[EMSC]

It’s become very humorous to Telluride Locals that they are begging to be acquired by Aspen.

I'm sure plenty of grumbling would occur no matter the new owner, but Alterra/Crown family do run things pretty professionally by comparison!

I hear the number/offer from Aspen/Alterra is north of $300m - about $325m.

I'm still wrapping my head around numbers over $100M for a tiny place like Eldora (the rumored price is in the ballpark of $125M).

 

[ChrisC]

I'm sure plenty of grumbling would occur no matter the new owner, but Alterra/Crown family do run things pretty professionally by comparison!

Aspen appears to do a pretty good job. They often extend seasons for locals during high snow years, constantly update infrastructure, have good on-mountain eateries, etc.

They have been slow to update Aspen Mountain - Hero's/Pandora expansion took forever (approval process), replacing Chair 1A with a Chondola further into town - Lift One project (town approval process) and just letting Ruthie's restaurant close.

I'm still wrapping my head around numbers over $100M for a tiny place like Eldora (the rumored price is in the ballpark of $125M).

It would be interesting to see the valuation models supporting these ski resort prices - especially when there is sometimes little developable real estate to go with them. Allreds and Wells (old owners) kept much of the desirable real estate before selling Telluride in 2001. Do they try to calculate some network/pass effects?


The best Era of Telluride was the following: Hideo "Joe" Morita Era (1999-2004)
In July 1999, Allred and Wells acquired a joint-venture partner, Hideo "Joe" Morita of Morita Investments International (MINT). By March 2001, Morita had purchased 100% of the Telluride Ski and Golf Company (TSG).

In his short tenure, he opened the Prospect Bowl, Gold Hill, Bald Mountain, Chair 12 Hike-To's, Snowmaking and installed 5 High-Speed Quad Chairs, 1 Triple Chair, 1 Surface Lift. Morita is responsible for making Telluride a destination mountain. The mountain is almost entirely reliant on this infrastructure from almost 25 years ago.