Mt. Bachelor to refocus on spring skiing
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SoCal Rider
New member
I was going to post earlier (guess I am now) that Mr. C wouldn't be especially impressed with anything before first weekend in June.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I do not think May 17th is that exceptional. If you cannot keep it open until Memorial Day - you really are not really a player in late season skiing.
They have the snow but not the population. Seattle skiers would rather go to Whistler. And Portlanders have to drive right by Mt. Hood.
Mammoth can stay open since they have the 2nd largest city hostage as a ski center.
They have the snow but not the population. Seattle skiers would rather go to Whistler. And Portlanders have to drive right by Mt. Hood.
Mammoth can stay open since they have the 2nd largest city hostage as a ski center.
rfarren
New member
I would fly to bend in mid june if they had reasonable skiing. From what I've read, Bachelor would be able to stay open almost year round during very good years. I believe this year has been a very good year for them.
IMHO that is true. Doesn't snowbird routinely stay open till june?
ChrisC":8mnmax88 said:
IMHO that is true. Doesn't snowbird routinely stay open till june?
SoCal Rider
New member
This year, I'd would probably still go to Mammoth following Memorial Day, but I would love to visit Bend sometime, and lifts turning in late May would eventually get me to visit.
No change from recent years. They have to go that long to serve the Pole, Pedal, Paddle event. Closing earlier would be the final straw in alienating the Bend locals. This mountain has 3,000 vertical of natural skiable snow at Memorial day 95% of the time, and 4th of July well over half the time. They need to have the U.S. Ski team there in June.
I'm not sure this is a change either. In order to access 360 degree corn from the Summit, Northwest has to be open. The bottom of that lift is at 5,900 but in a big year like this it's probably skiable to at least first weekend in May.
This is total crap. Mammoth adjusts its closing hour based upon the daily condition of the snowpack. Memorial Day closing hours are generally in the 2PM to 3PM range. I've been over 30K on Memorial weekend a couple of times, and twice in June also. The trimming of closing hour from a normal 4PM begins mid-May or so on average at Mammoth. I skied Bachelor April 14-15 in 2007 and it was still over half winter conditions, for christsakes!
Cutting the operating hours April 20 is nothing more than Powdr Corp penny-pinching IMHO. If I'm going to throw down for airfare to go up there (which I did in 2007) it will not be for reduced hours, and probably not if Northwest is closed. The reduced hours will be less of a deterrent for you golfers and other multisport enthusiasts. Bend has an abundance of other sports available in spring afternoons.
rfarren
New member
I'm glad to see Tony's reaction. I don't see what is so special about may 17th. Killington used to stay open that long. I didn't even realize they are closing early, and aren't keeping open all available terrain. It's a real shame because I would love to go to bend in june and have my cake and eat it too. I guess though I'll have to wait until pwdr crap goes belly up.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Mt. Bachelor closing date.
I am sure someone ran the numbers and found it is not $. However, they should look as a marketing problem.
They have the product. How do they move the numbers to make it at least $ neutral. And whatever analysis they are doing - they probably should add 1-2% increases for the entire season. (Articles, publicity, Top-of-mind awareness, ski culture, etc)
Marketing? Like Tony suggested. Make it the official training site of the US Ski Team. Other ideas: XGames - try to add an extreme sport year round festival. Get it on TV. Snowboarding - build a giant super park/pipe for year round training. Get a population of athletes in Bend. It's cheap(er) than most places these days. (A lot of Dartmouth athletes came from/went to Bend) Promote multi-activity vacations. There are a lot of ideas here - desert, golf, Bend, skiing... But this requires non-financial skills. And it requires an investment in Bend/Bachelor.
This decision: non-pass skier days * rate > operting costs. And do they spread their fixed costs into this analysis? As long as they cover their variable costs - just go for it. Ski areas are not that sophisticated -- a lot of companies do crap financial analysis.
Some combined Bachelor/Bend entity should think about late season again.
Bend - there has got to be a bunch of under-water condos and 2nd homes. It's overbuilt and really has no industry/jobs besides retirement/tourism. It's the NW Miami, Vegas, etc. The area has to be desperate. They should consider it....it's in the entire community's interest.
I am sure someone ran the numbers and found it is not $. However, they should look as a marketing problem.
They have the product. How do they move the numbers to make it at least $ neutral. And whatever analysis they are doing - they probably should add 1-2% increases for the entire season. (Articles, publicity, Top-of-mind awareness, ski culture, etc)
Marketing? Like Tony suggested. Make it the official training site of the US Ski Team. Other ideas: XGames - try to add an extreme sport year round festival. Get it on TV. Snowboarding - build a giant super park/pipe for year round training. Get a population of athletes in Bend. It's cheap(er) than most places these days. (A lot of Dartmouth athletes came from/went to Bend) Promote multi-activity vacations. There are a lot of ideas here - desert, golf, Bend, skiing... But this requires non-financial skills. And it requires an investment in Bend/Bachelor.
This decision: non-pass skier days * rate > operting costs. And do they spread their fixed costs into this analysis? As long as they cover their variable costs - just go for it. Ski areas are not that sophisticated -- a lot of companies do crap financial analysis.
Some combined Bachelor/Bend entity should think about late season again.
Bend - there has got to be a bunch of under-water condos and 2nd homes. It's overbuilt and really has no industry/jobs besides retirement/tourism. It's the NW Miami, Vegas, etc. The area has to be desperate. They should consider it....it's in the entire community's interest.
schubwa
New member
So is schubwa, but only because they are "trying", otherwise it's still an awfully early closing date considering how good the corn can be in late May and beyond. I think the fact that the US Team (I presume now the Alpine squad) is here (only until May 17?) is probably the best news. They prefer to train here rather than at Timberline; last year they were turned away. The Nordic guys are here again this June, which provides salted and groomed surfaces for our local skate skiers to enjoy (for a $5 donation). Powdr grooms the PPP course a few times a week after the Nordic Center closes in mid-April, but otherwise those skiers are ignored. Maybe the team's presence will be the catalyst to later close dates in the future (wishful thinking).Admin":1v1tl0lo said:
Yep.ChrisC":1v1tl0lo said:
Here's where I diverge from Tony. I don't see the point of running lifts after the snow gets really soft. The riders just kick up piles that freeze into coral reefs the next morning. Corn is best served smooth and creamy. We have high-speed lifts here and you can really pound out the runs, leaving time to go golf, bike, paddle, hike, etc. later in the day. But I'm a spoiled local who never skis all day except when I'm on vacation and paying for a lift ticket!Tony Crocker":1v1tl0lo said:
Chris, I invite you to come and visit. We already are the defacto official training site, even if it's only been a couple of days. We have an incredible assortment of skill and endurance events all year long, with more added all the time, so I don't feel this is a weakness. There is already an unbelieveable local athletic population and culture that IMHO makes Bend THE individual sports capital of the nation.ChrisC":1v1tl0lo said:
There is some truth here, but let me explain. There are basically no condos in Bend, it's a real town with all the trimmings and this sets us apart from the Jacksons, Vails and Ketchums of the ski world. Like many of the desirable places in the west, we are overbuilt due to the recent "loan boom". There are quite a few entreprenurial clean businesses that have located here to balance out the construction/tourism/investment income industries that replaced the timber/mill economy that busted in the 80's. Again, the area is home to tons of people who live here because it's a great town in a super location and not because of Mt Bachelor. Times are tough, but I haven't talked to one person who wasn't super bummed if they were forced to leave the area to find work!ChrisC":1v1tl0lo said:
To continue with their theme of a gradual shutdown why couldn't they keep just Pine Martin open for another few weeks? How much could it cost to keep 1 lift spinning. They could essentially shut the lodge down, and really reduce their operations staff.
I know last year was a huge year, but I was up in the end of June and there was probably 4-6 feet still at the base. I know that isn't usual, but I'm pretty sure they could spin until Memorial Day every year.
I like their idea of setting up a spring super park, the problem is if they want to attract people away from TImberline they need to be able to be open until the end of July and have some camps come over. Some of the camps that rent lanes up at Timberline would love to have more space and flexibility to do their own thing.
There are definitely ideas out there that would make it viable to stay open much later and draw a lot of people to Bend, powder just needs to not be afraid to break the conventional ski area mold and realize that Bachelor isn't your typical ski area.
I know last year was a huge year, but I was up in the end of June and there was probably 4-6 feet still at the base. I know that isn't usual, but I'm pretty sure they could spin until Memorial Day every year.
I like their idea of setting up a spring super park, the problem is if they want to attract people away from TImberline they need to be able to be open until the end of July and have some camps come over. Some of the camps that rent lanes up at Timberline would love to have more space and flexibility to do their own thing.
There are definitely ideas out there that would make it viable to stay open much later and draw a lot of people to Bend, powder just needs to not be afraid to break the conventional ski area mold and realize that Bachelor isn't your typical ski area.
No. Summit is what sets Bachelor's spring skiing apart from nearly anywhere else. Better than winter when it's closed half the time for wind/visibility/snow stability.
I would think that top of Summit down to Pine Marten base is close to meeting FIS downhill specs. This should be usable the better part of June in most seasons.
Bachelor used to salt the groomed runs on warm spring days like Mammoth, not sure if they still do that.
I've observed this over 30 years at Mammoth. It's rare for snow to be that sticky on a widespread basis until sometime in May in the spring climate of Mammoth/Bachelor. Schubwa should know well that it often keeps snowing in April too. You want to close at 1:30 on a powder day? Mammoth is flexible with spring hours based upon conditions; Bachelor should be also.
I totally agree that Bend and Bachelor should promote the multisport spring tourism. There's nothing comparable in North America IMHO.
In 2007 Bachelor went to reduced lifts and hours on April 22 and closed after the PPP event. The current press release is just PR; no real change in philosophy of operations.
EMSC
Well-known member
FIS Mens DH min is 800 vertical meters (a little over 2600'), Women's min is 500 meters (a little over 1,600'). So technically just enough - not that that matters much, anything with good rollers, jumps and interesting terrain that the US team could get time on even if only say 1500' verts would be good at that time of year. More about skill & confidence building than crushingly long full length course needs in May/June. Though just remember that if they did take a run top to bottom, public would only be able to get from one side of the mtn to the other at the very top or very bottom when actually running training (and Bachelor is laid out so that many want to criss-cross in the middle elevations).
schubwa
New member
These are the problems you want to have, if the US Team's training presence somehow prolongs the season here at this mountain. All the downhills I have seen here start on the West Ridge above the Skyliner top station and continue down Cliffhanger Run, but this would only be possible if that lift were open. Otherwise they could run it down to Pine Martin. Either way, it's not that disruptive to skiers jogging across from one side to the other. They just have a flagger where the comeback trail crosses the course, like they do on most weekends during the busier regular season. The amount of terrain and or access impacted off the Summit Chair for the paying public would be minimal. Just like when the Nordic Team came last spring, they just create more enjoyable conditions as the amount of grooming and salting increases, and they quit early.
Tony, Mammoth didn't used to be flexible with spring hours. During the McCoy era the mountain would operate from 8:00 am - 2:00 pm starting May 1 and after Memorial Day the hours would change to 7:00 am - 1:00 pm. The longer hours during spring season started when Intrawest got invovled with the mountain. It was then also that they started to consistently operate all of the lifts (except Chair 20 and sometimes Chair 7), every day, during the regular season.
I don't think Mt. Bachelor is as deserving of the beating you're giving them.
Also, screw the Bend locals... Locals aren't the bread and butter of a ski resort operation and spring operations often eat away at the bottom line.
I don't think Mt. Bachelor is as deserving of the beating you're giving them.
Also, screw the Bend locals... Locals aren't the bread and butter of a ski resort operation and spring operations often eat away at the bottom line.
I've been skiing Mammoth since 1978. Canyon Lodge and chair 9 were open in May of 1978 and 1983. With winter conditions in early May 1983 I was up there 2 of those weekends and I don't think it closed at 2PM. I would agree in general that pre-Intrawest there was more spring flexibility in terms of open lifts and since then perhaps more flexibility in operating hours. But in general I do not see much change in mountain ops over the years at Mammoth.
Bachelor is very different; dramatic change, nearly all negative, since Powdr Corp came in. My high school classmate has lived in Bend since the early 1980's, is an astute businessman and is just as scathing in his comments about Powdr Corp as any ski bum local. Bachelor's lift system was probably the best in the country in the early 1990's (even recognized as such by one of the ski mags, surprising for a regional area). Perhaps Powdr Corp has responded to the lift maintenance issues, but as far as spring operations are concerned, no. An area that was open to July over half the time closing before Memorial Day is a major change. And cutting hours back when much of the mountain still has winter conditions.
Mammoth can only bring in ski teams for training in June in big years, yet they manage to do it on a few months notice when they have the snow. Bachelor could do it nearly every year, with more vertical and much greater reliability, yet they don't bother.
Read the lengthy Killington threads on several forums after Powdr took over there, and you'll see some of the same issues.
Bachelor is very different; dramatic change, nearly all negative, since Powdr Corp came in. My high school classmate has lived in Bend since the early 1980's, is an astute businessman and is just as scathing in his comments about Powdr Corp as any ski bum local. Bachelor's lift system was probably the best in the country in the early 1990's (even recognized as such by one of the ski mags, surprising for a regional area). Perhaps Powdr Corp has responded to the lift maintenance issues, but as far as spring operations are concerned, no. An area that was open to July over half the time closing before Memorial Day is a major change. And cutting hours back when much of the mountain still has winter conditions.
Mammoth can only bring in ski teams for training in June in big years, yet they manage to do it on a few months notice when they have the snow. Bachelor could do it nearly every year, with more vertical and much greater reliability, yet they don't bother.
Read the lengthy Killington threads on several forums after Powdr took over there, and you'll see some of the same issues.