Mt. Baker, 1/9/08

[Tony Crocker]

After 10 years of correspondence with Gwyn Howat verifying the highest documented snowfall of any lift service area, I finally made it to Mt. Baker.

Though it was a Wednesday the parking lot was at least half full and the local powderhounds were out in force in the morning.

Mt. Baker had its typical midwinter weather, fog and intermittent snow all day long. I was curious to see how it measured up terrain-wise to Mt. Baldy. It's definitely bigger, with 3 chairs comparable to Thunder at Baldy. And pretty serious too, with numerous mid-mountain cliffs if you don't navigate properly. In that respect similar to Red Mt., but with 1,000 vertical fall lines vs. 2,000.

Fortunately I was skiing with Gwyn for 2+ hours and didn't get into too much trouble. Nonetheless I got a sore back from too many "skiing by feel" runs in the bad visibility. It probably didn't help that I had just 2 days skiing on manmade before this to start the season. 19,800 vert, 10K of powder.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Midmountain cliffs IB?

How does it compare to Crystal?

 

[Sharon]

Chair 5s "choke" points are easily navigated and the cliffs are pretty well signed. You basically just head for the lift, as that is where the clear passage is. It is steep and narrow, but plenty of snow.

Compared to Crystal, it is a whole different place. It is a small area with less vertical, slower lifts and much more laid back. There is no development around the ski area itself besides the base lodges.

Crystal is more resorty, has much more terrain, more variety, more and faster lifts, bigger and fancier lodges, and the out of bounds area is avy controlled.

Here's my resort feature on Crystal
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index. ... e&sid=2985

and here's my resort feature on Baker
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index. ... e&sid=2867

I was out there with Acid Christ in Dec 2006 after some big early-season snow.

Tony, is Gwyn Duncan's daughter??

 

[SoCal Rider]

Do people duck the ropes and drop the cliffs?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Yes, Gwyn is Duncan's daughter.

There is a constant issue of ducking the ropes. Gwyn was on the phone to ski patrol several times about it while we were skiing.

The ski area's position is as follows: You may duck the ropes if you have all the avy gear, a partner and know the day's snow safety report.

Because of the readily accessible sidecountry and abundant snowfall, Mt. Baker runs one of the most active snow safety courses in the country: http://www.mtbaker.us/mec.php .

Even with the normal rope policy there are times the sidecountry must be closed. There is currently a bad layer down there from a heavy rain event December 2-4. When I was there January 9 Gwyn said it had snowed every day since December 14. All of that snow was with low snow levels, so the snowpack is less marine in nature and thus less stable. Therefore several OB sectors are off-limits when they would normally be open at this time of year or with this much base depth.

Crystal is more alpine. It reminds me a lot of Squaw Valley. The lifts at Mt. Baker barely reach timberline. So there is more of a learning curve with numerous blind entrances through the trees. Tree spacing is good, but there are cliff bands. Thus the analogy to Red Mt. Both Baker and Crystal are very expert weighted, though Crystal is much bigger.

 

[Sharon]

Do people duck the ropes and drop the cliffs?

I don't know if they do, but some of these cliffs are not at all friendly to the average skier. Cliff dropping would be of the extreme nature requiring expert level abilities and awareness of said risk, not your regular yahoo going for some air.

I skied with Wayne Grevey when I was at Crystal. This guy has dropped 70' cliffs. In my mind, that is crazy, but that is the life of a professional extreme skier. The guy has also broken quite a few bones and is one of the best skiers I've ever skied with.

I keep my skis planted firmly on the ground 99.9% of the time.

 

[Tony Crocker]

When my skis leave the ground, that's usually a sign I'm in trouble :lol: . Since I have a far more talented son, he went to Mike Douglas' camp at Whistler to learn how to do it right. Adam can do moderate drops with good form and stable landings. However, at the camp week he learned that he does not have the acrobatic talent to do tricks while he's in the air. As opposed to admin's stepson Michael, who has both ski and acrobatic ability.

 

[SoCal Rider]

I wouldn't do it myself, although I was pondering a Baker/Crystal/Stevens trip. But maybe not the best choice, as I'm what you might call a permanent intermediate, a condition developed from lacking a true thrill-seeker instinct, as well as from riding mostly non-Baldy SoCal hills. Fairly low-angle powder fields with some nearby well-spaced glades are my dream terrain, just as long as I don't get stuck — like Scotty's at Mammoth, or what's depicted in Schuwba's Brundage TR.

 

[Sharon]

Fairly low-angle powder fields with some nearby well-spaced glades are my dream terrain

You might pay a visit to Bachelor...I understand this is the type of terrain you are interested in. I also found well-spaced glades at Heavenly when I was there many years ago.

Baker and Crystal's terrain does not really qualify in your ideal terrain dream.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I was going to say Mt. Bachelor also. Bachelor was the first place I saw a snowboarder, at Christmas 1985. As at Baker, I think the motivation for snowboarding there was the copious dumps of high water content powder.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Oh, did I forget to mention my dreams riding with Terje Hakonsen?

Like most people, I benefit from a hero-snow bump. You could have said Timberline, too, but I went there two years ago and can deal with more challenging stuff.

I am going to Tahoe in two weeks but my brother is in Truckee, so we're probably going to do some combo of Boreal/Northstar/Squaw with maybe Alpine or Sugar in the mix.

 

[ChrisC]

After 10 years of correspondence with Gwyn Howat verifying the highest documented snowfall of any lift service area, I finally made it to Mt. Baker.

Though it was a Wednesday the parking lot was at least half full and the local powderhounds were out in force in the morning.

Mt. Baker had its typical midwinter weather, fog and intermittent snow all day long. I was curious to see how it measured up terrain-wise to Mt. Baldy. It's definitely bigger, with 3 chairs comparable to Thunder at Baldy. And pretty serious too, with numerous mid-mountain cliffs if you don't navigate properly. In that respect similar to Red Mt., but with 1,000 vertical fall lines vs. 2,000.

Fortunately I was skiing with Gwyn for 2+ hours and didn't get into too much trouble. Nonetheless I got a sore back from too many "skiing by feel" runs in the bad visibility. It probably didn't help that I had just 2 days skiing on manmade before this to start the season. 19,800 vert, 10K of powder.

Glad to see you got to Baker - Mr. Snowfall Guru. Perhaps overdue.

Also, you hit it well. To be honest, you are never really skiing much more than 8-12" in dense NW snow - even if it snowed 28". Although those snow levels have been so low and low moisture....I'm jealous.

But a cloudy day after a 40+ temp spike...Baker sucks. I've done my Baker spring when 100+" base = bare spots all over the east faces. Yep, a 100"+ base can mean no snow on strong east exposures...not south, but east. (I think I got upset that day when 100" snow reports meant brown spots.)

I do not consider anything really cliffy but chair 1. 100 footers with some lines between them. The Canyon near Pan Dome has cliff walls, but otherwise it's mostly rocks. Not too significant. They exist for sure, but easily changeable.

Anyways, PacNW is skiing new snow in cloudy conditions. And you got the best of it.

 

[ChrisC]

Crystal is more alpine. It reminds me a lot of Squaw Valley. The lifts at Mt. Baker barely reach timberline. So there is more of a learning curve with numerous blind entrances through the trees. Tree spacing is good, but there are cliff bands. Thus the analogy to Red Mt. Both Baker and Crystal are very expert weighted, though Crystal is much bigger.

Not sure if I agree with this. I do not think it is wrong, but just I never made the connection with Crystal and Squaw being my drive-by hills.

Squaw is just way too sunny and punctuated by long fair weather periods. Steeps and hucks/hits and maybe a few feet of snow.

Crystal is cloud layers, a few inches here and there, non-developed. Traversing to OB/Side Country - (or what with new lifts...they saved the best part). I always thought it was more intimate.

Red Mt...hmmm...I think that is different too....more Fernie than Crystal.

 

[Sharon]

Red Mt...hmmm...I think that is different too....more Fernie than Crystal.

I do agree that I don't see much of the comparison with Red. Red is it's own animal. I have never skied any place like it. The trees there are so awesome and steep. It is more like eastern tree skiing on steroids. Much bigger trees and much better quality/quantity of snow. But the trees are pretty tight by western standards.

Whitewater is similar, but lacks in the steeps and vertical that Red has, but makes up for it in the amount of snow they get.

Fernie has some tree skiing, but really cannot compare to Red/WW.

I think Fernie is more like Crystal than Red.

-Sh

 

[Tony Crocker]

I meant that Baker is a scaled-down Red Mt, Crystal is a not-as-much-scaled-down Squaw.

Crystal's exposure is worse than Squaw's; main fall lines are east, with almost equal north and south. Only the Southback sidecountry wraps around to predominant north exposure. Squaw is about evenly divided between north and east exposures. Both my days at Crystal were sunny with heavy spring conditions. And one of them was on February 8.

Squaw skis much better than Crystal in spring conditions with the better exposure and higher altitude. On a powder day I might prefer Crystal, particularly with the less competitive sidecountry options.

So I do know that the low elevation and coastal proximity can do a number on PNW snow. And that I did relatively well at Baker for snow last Wednesday. I could still tell that the powder in the Whistler/Blackcomb alpine was noticeably lighter than at Mt. Baker.

a 100"+ base at Mt. Baker can mean no snow on strong east exposures...not south, but east.

I just realized that I had no clue what exposure the ski area had given the weather when I was there and for the previous 3 weeks. A Google Earth view informs me that chairs 1 and 5 face north, while chairs 6 and 8 are almost east. The fall line where Gwen is by the snow-laden tree snag probably faces slightly south of east, but I would never have known with the weather. In terms of weather Niseko might be a good analogy for Mt. Baker. Stick to the dead of winter for a steady diet of powder, but take a pass in spring when the low elevation snowpack won't hold up well.

Red is it's own animal. I have never skied any place like it. The trees there are so awesome and steep. It is more like eastern tree skiing on steroids.

Please keep this comment (from a dedicated easterner) in mind when comparing eastern and western tree skiing.

 

[ChrisC]

So I do know that the low elevation and coastal proximity can do a number on PNW snow. And that I did relatively well at Baker for snow last Wednesday. I could still tell that the powder in the Whistler/Blackcomb alpine was noticeably lighter than at Mt. Baker.

The snow quality is almost always better at Whistler (alpine) than WA resorts.

March is an iffy month in the NW. Yes there can be great days. But one or two days of sun followed by a week of clouds can leave a coral reef surface. Also, the storms are warmer too by then.

a 100"+ base at Mt. Baker can mean no snow on strong east exposures...not south, but east.

I just realized that I had no clue what exposure the ski area had given the weather when I was there and for the previous 3 weeks. A Google Earth view informs me that chairs 1 and 5 face north, while chairs 6 and 8 are almost east. The fall line where Gwen is by the snow-laden tree snag probably faces slightly south of east, but I would never have known with the weather. In terms of weather Niseko might be a good analogy for Mt. Baker. Stick to the dead of winter for a steady diet of powder, but take a pass in spring when the low elevation snowpack won't hold up well.

The spring brown spots I was referring to occur in the following areas: some of the better bumps under Chair 3, and lower areas of Chair 8.

On heavy snow days, I like the Chair 6 area a lot - lots of open areas and some trees.

The Chair 1 area had nice open powder areas and then you thread your way through the significant cliff band.

I've only down the easily accessible sidecountry c-5/c-8. Generally, I would not do this unless the weather was stellar.