Mt. Baldy, CA, April 14, 2012 (Pics added)

[baldyskier]

Day 6
I debated whether or not to go to Baldy on Saturday, but I'm glad I did. It was definitely a day for rock skis/boards, but it was also a decent powder day. I arrived at about 8:30 AM, waited for the short ticket line, then went up chair 1. Thunder Mtn. wasn't open yet, so I took a run down the face. It wasn't bad, although I did hit a couple of rocks. I ended up taking a couple more runs on chair 1, traversing all the way out to Bentley's, and found better snow. It was good powder, though rocks and fallen trees needed to be avoided.

The snow off from chair 3 was nice once the lift started running at about 10:30. I took a run down the main slope, then headed for South Bowl. There was about 15" or more, and it skied well for a few hours. There weren't a lot of people up there, so no liftlines. I did laps on South Bowl until the untracked got hard to find at about 1:30. By then the snow was getting wet near the bottom of the run, though still good up top.
I did a couple laps in the Gold Ridge trees. The powder was good there as well.

I headed down from the Notch at 2:30, once again skiing down Bentley's. The snow was heavy and wet, but still worth doing. I hit a few more rocks near the bottom, but it didn't take much away from the day (that's what rock skis are for). I got in 15,200 feet, nearly all powder.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Sounds like it was worth it then. My 7-year-old reminded me that I promised to take her skiing during spring break, so went to Big Bear instead. Funny: Allegedly around 30 all day (3-layer day for me), plenty of fog and clouds to go along with sun down low, and the snow still got heavy and bumped out.

 

[baldyskier]

Sounds like it was worth it then. My 7-year-old reminded me that I promised to take her skiing during spring break, so went to Big Bear instead. Funny: Allegedly around 30 all day (3-layer day for me), plenty of fog and clouds to go along with sun down low, and the snow still got heavy and bumped out.

You made the right choice. I took my daughter to Baldy once when she was about 10 years old (after taking her cross country skiing when she was younger). I put her in lessons, but she didn't enjoy it. I think she overheated from climbing up the little beginners area (Baldy has no true beginner's lift, so first time skiers have to climb up a small slope near the lodge) with clothing that was too warm. I'm thinking that she may have taken more of an interest in the sport had I started her out younger, and at a place with a better beginner's area. I took her to Snow Summit a couple of years later, but she still didn't take to skiing. I think that the key is starting them when they're too young to be scared, at an area with a true beginner hill. My daughter is almost 16 now, and isn't at all interested in skiing.

BTW, the temperature at the parking lot at Baldy was only 32 degrees at 3:00 PM. I guess enough sun got through at various times in the day to turn the powder to chowder on much of the mountain. April sun nails the snow a lot harder than midwinter sun, due to its higher angle.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

You made the right choice. I took my daughter to Baldy once when she was about 10 years old (after taking her cross country skiing when she was younger). I put her in lessons, but she didn't enjoy it. I think she overheated from climbing up the little beginners area (Baldy has no true beginner's lift, so first time skiers have to climb up a small slope near the lodge) with clothing that was too warm. I'm thinking that she may have taken more of an interest in the sport had I started her out younger, and at a place with a better beginner's area. I took her to Snow Summit a couple of years later, but she still didn't take to skiing. I think that the key is starting them when they're too young to be scared, at an area with a true beginner hill. My daughter is almost 16 now, and isn't at all interested in skiing.

Quoted for truth. This is the primary reason why I'm generally found slumming it at Mtn High West these days. When I can get out w/o the family, it's Baldy, Waterman or Mammoth. But with a 4 year old just getting her ski legs under her, Mtn High has by far the best set up in SoCal, IMHO. Basically have three lifts (2 magic carpets and 1 double chair) to themselves, pretty much separate from the numbskulls who generally characterize the customer base there. They allow for an ideal progression from the 1st magic carpet to a combo of the 1st and 2nd (upping the vert to a whopping 50 ft!), and finally to the beginner slope off the double. She's now been bitten by the bug and I think a major reason is that I've avoided Baldy like the plague thus far. As soon as she has the chops to ski the intermediate pitches off 3 and 4, we're there, but no need to scare her off before then.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Mike,

I commend your bravery and fortitude taking a young child to Mountain High West. I just don't even think of doing that. We've skied at Snow Summit and Valley. She could handle a few of the runs, but a thin snowpack on Thunder-only is not the best intro, obviously.

She has gone from a "banzai" 6-year-old to a in-control but cautious 7-year-old. I'm excited to see how she progresses next season. Saturday, she made it down Log Chute, Timber Ridge and Miracle Mile at Summit. Now she needs to develop her "inner-steeze" (since we're talking Mountain High). She was disappointed that Summit didn't rebuild the small rollers and tabletops in the family fun park area.

One day at Baldy is a bummer, but I've been looking forward to riding with my kids for a long time. (I've got two more future shredders waiting to join the party.). She lit up when she made it down the "black diamond" portion of Miracle Mile without falling. What do you think was the first thing she said to mom when we got home?

 

[Tony Crocker]

I wouldn't recommend Mt. High West with a 4-year-old but the 300 vert Discovery chair at the top of Mt. High East is one of the best spots to bring young kids. Out of the way, much more

separate from the numbskulls who generally characterize the customer base

at Mt. High.

The 400 vert upper chair at Mt. Waterman is similarly attractive. These 2 lifts have the additional advantage of being high elevation well above the crappy snow that often characterizes the base areas of SoCal ski resorts.

She's now been bitten by the bug and I think a major reason is that I've avoided Baldy like the plague thus far. As soon as she has the chops to ski the intermediate pitches off 3 and 4, we're there, but no need to scare her off before then.

Adam had one day at Baldy at age 4, skied 6 runs Fire Road/Bonanza and 3 on chair 4, but he was "bitten by the bug" at least a year earlier (7 partial days with a leash at Mammoth on chairs 11 and the old 6 at age 3). One day at age 5, now able to do Robin's as well. Two more at age 6, now comfortable on Skyline and Sugarpine below chair 1 (good deep base conditions in "miracle March" 1991). During those age 4-6 years Adam had also one day at Waterman, 3 at Mt. High and 7 at Big Bear in addition to one destination trip and 2-3 weekends at Mammoth per season. Total 14 days age 4, 18 days age 5, 12 days age 6, the latter lower because of the California ski season before March 1991 being even worse than this year.

Age 7 was the breakthrough year, 24 days (9 of them in local in a very good SoCal season) and 420K vertical. On his first day at Baldy that season he skied 20,700 including 3 runs each of Emile's and Bentley's.

She has gone from a "banzai" 6-year-old to a in-control but cautious 7-year-old.

Interesting. Garry Klassen and I observed with our kids that ages 5 and 6 were the "cautious" years.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

I would agree with most of the observations and opinions above. Three deciding factors have driven us to Mtn High West.

1) Daughter wasn't really ready for 300 verts at a time when we started this year (would have been in the last month or so, but East is closed) and the beginner chair at West is about half that.

2) Extremely easy access to hot chocolate replenishment at the base of West vs. having to download for same at East

3) Mtn High (West or East) is exactly 75 minutes from my house and is therefore an easy trip for a quick half day or even a night session. Big Bear, OTOH, is generally a 2.5-3 hr trip in normal traffic/weather conditions, so really not worth the extra haul given the terrain we're skiing on right now.

4) Waterman was closed all year

Obviously the upper Waterman lifts would be an ideal fit to, and in fact I took her there last winter for a day. Would have returned this year if they had opened. Alas. With access from Angeles Crest Hwy now restored, I figure it's a few ticks less than the 75 minutes it takes me to get to Mtn High.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Daughter wasn't really ready for 300 verts at a time when we started this year

300-400 verts I did not see as an issue if terrain is appropriate. At age 3 the leash was the effective method of maintaining control, might help with a first time 4 year old too. The key issue at ages 3-4 is time; most of them are not able to handle a full day. So Mammoth, Snow Summit and most of the destinations worked well because they had day care; he could be out skiing with me as short or long a time as he wanted to be. There were occasions, as the very first time off the leash at Mt. Waterman, when Adam wanted to be out the whole day. I have heard that unfortunately daycare is one of the costs of skiing that has increased significantly since I was using it ~20 years ago.

Waterman was closed all year

While I like to hit the local places when they are good, the fact remains that 30+% of seasons are like this one where the natural terrain in SoCal never really gets adequately covered. So even in the family years we did the one destination trip (normally school spring break) plus a handful of Mammoth weekends to ensure at least some quality skiing each season.

But there was still an impact as evidenced by Adam getting 12 days in the delayed 1990-91 season vs. 24 in the very good 1991-92 season. As we have seen since JSpin has set the standard for teaching kids to ski. Being 20 minutes away from a reasonably reliable ski area with a family season pass is the ideal way to get young kids up to speed at an early age. Those kids were getting 25-30 partial days per season at ages 3+ and it showed from their progress. In retrospect it's obvious that Adam's breakthrough occurred on Memorial Day 1991 at the end of that age 6 season with 12 days, so likely earlier if he were getting out more often like JSpin's kids did.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Interesting. Garry Klassen and I observed with our kids that ages 5 and 6 were the "cautious" years.

She took after her uncle, who at 6 pointed his tips down and zoomed off. (He's now in his early 30s and way better than me, splitboarding and all, so perhaps a sign. Or not.) There were times when I trailed her in no-fear mode. I dunno what changed this year. She had one confidence-draining moment in March (day 3 out of 4) when she mistakenly took off toward Chair 7 at Summit on hardpack, picking up a lot of speed. She fell, but a skiiing mom helped her get to the lift. She seemed to shake it off and we had a fun day after that.

I put her in another lesson at the beginning of the season with hopes that that would put her on a path of improved turns. She's not there. During turns, she often assumes a wide stance and brings her skis off the snow, on purpose or not. So maybe a private or small group lesson next season? I'm not a skier, so it's hard for me to coach her.

 

[Admin]

Look around your area for a multi-week program where she's placed with kids her own age. Same instructor, same kids for one day a week 4 or 6 weeks in a row. She'll bond with the kids (read: she'll have fun and develop confidence by feeding off their energy) and the instructor will get to know what she needs and be able to pick up where they left off the week before. It works wonders.

 

[EMSC]

Look around your area for a multi-week program where she's placed with kids her own age. Same instructor, same kids for one day a week 4 or 6 weeks in a row. She'll bond with the kids (read: she'll have fun and develop confidence by feeding off their energy) and the instructor will get to know what she needs and be able to pick up where they left off the week before. It works wonders.

+1, consistency for the kids is a huge factor.

I would also suggest that these 6 week or so programs run by ski school are good for a couple of years. After that entry level racing programs become appropriate. Ski schools can be super wonderful for a while, but at some point in the progress the groups tend to start skiing 'down' to the slowest person's ability in each group instead of pushing each kid to ski the best that they can the way racing programs are set up to do... Just my opinion, but that's what I've generally seen at nearly all (but not literally 100%) of resorts that I have detailed knowledge of their kids programs. (I've race coached for a bunch of years so have seen quite number of programs).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Thanks for the tips. When I wrote "skis off the ground," I meant skis on their inner edges. Hope that makes sense.

After her lesson, the instructor said that she was so far ahead of the other kids that she had an instructor to herself. But I'm afraid she wasn't really pushed, as I'm pretty sure they stuck to the beginner lift.

She is fascinated by the youth racing groups, but we are 2 to 2 1/2 hours one-way from any ski area, so I'm not sure that's realistic; same goes for a multiweek program, but that sure sounds like a good idea if doable.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Logistics and probably quality of instruction make admin's and EMSC's constructive suggestions very difficult in this region.

we are 2 to 2 1/2 hours one-way from any ski area

Yes, I suspect Big Bear would be the only chance of that type of program here.

Ski schools can be super wonderful for a while, but at some point in the progress the groups tend to start skiing 'down' to the slowest person's ability in each group instead of pushing each kid to ski the best that they can

I have no doubt whatsoever that is what happens at the young ages 3-6. At those ages Adam was far better off (and he clearly said so at the time) with me doing the instruction myself. I'm sure he got more skiing in too, average 6,200 vert per day age 4, 8,800 age 5 and 12,900 age 6. His average per day of 17,600 at age 7 was more than the 16,100 during my own breakthrough season in 1978-79.

Garry Klassen used to instruct kids at Baldy, so I consulted him for advice periodically. During those years the only external instruction that stood out to me as conspicuously aiding Adam's progress were 2 days at Vail in the age 5 season.

Of course as any parent knows you need a highly motivated kid to take ski instruction from a parent. Andrew was less motivated, so ski school was the appropriate answer there as he would be more in the middle of a group anyway.

After the age 7 breakthrough I believe I was not particularly qualified to continue Adam's instruction. I figured correctly that advanced level lessons at expert-oriented mountains would be small groups and high quality instruction. Thus Adam got some of that at Squaw age 8 and 3 days in Jackson age 10 that he particularly enjoyed. The next year age 11 was the first one at Iron Blosam. He and the 2 other level 9 kids would take a day of lessons at Snowbird on each trip that nearly always consisted of just them and an instructor.

 

[Staley]

I started at age 10 and did ski school for the first 3 years (probably ~12 total days in ski school). For the last one or two days of the week-long trip, I'd generally ski with my parents instead of doing ski school. My parents certainly weren't really aggressive skiers (as in we'd stop to regroup every 30 seconds or so, take lots of hot cocoa breaks, etc.), and I still noted that I probably got twice the amount of skiing in with them than with ski school. I'm sure it's a good deal when you're abnormally good for your age and will be in a small group, but for me, ski school was really just follow-the-leader in a big group; I never got any instruction from it.

 

[SoCal Rider]

I started at age 10 and did ski school for the first 3 years (probably ~12 total days in ski school). For the last one or two days of the week-long trip, I'd generally ski with my parents instead of doing ski school. My parents certainly weren't really aggressive skiers (as in we'd stop to regroup every 30 seconds or so, take lots of hot cocoa breaks, etc.), and I still noted that I probably got twice the amount of skiing in with them than with ski school. I'm sure it's a good deal when you're abnormally good for your age and will be in a small group, but for me, ski school was really just follow-the-leader in a big group; I never got any instruction from it.

We were lucky that it was early Dec. and there were plenty of instructors hanging around and a shortage of students. I wish, though, that I could have arranged for her to do the top-to-bottom Summit Run with an instructor. But that didn't seem to be an option at Little Bear Camp; maybe privates only. Not sure.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

300-400 verts I did not see as an issue if terrain is appropriate. At age 3 the leash was the effective method of maintaining control, might help with a first time 4 year old too. The key issue at ages 3-4 is time; most of them are not able to handle a full day. So Mammoth, Snow Summit and most of the destinations worked well because they had day care; he could be out skiing with me as short or long a time as he wanted to be.

I think when you consider the added cycle time of the ride up and then the download back down, it changes the dynamic somewhat. Your window is only so long with 3-4 year olds, and is probably a touch shorter with girls due to having less leg strength. Also, since I was more familiar with West, that made it an easier process overall, especially considering that East wasn't an option for our night missions. Next season, East is likely a "go to" spot for us due to lower crowds and fantastic views available from the top.

I have heard that unfortunately daycare is one of the costs of skiing that has increased significantly since I was using it ~20 years ago.

It's downright confiscatorial these days. Starts at $100/day, and I don't think that includes any lessons or equipment. The latter isn't an issue for me b/c we've invested in kids equipment that we'll get 3-4 seasns out of between the two girls, but it's prohibitive for folks with less of a commitment.

 

[baldyskier]

Logistics and probably quality of instruction make admin's and EMSC's constructive suggestions very difficult in this region.

we are 2 to 2 1/2 hours one-way from any ski area

Yes, I suspect Big Bear would be the only chance of that type of program here.

There is a program called Blue Angels that has bus transportation from a number So. CA cities to Mountain High, where they have a 5 week program for youth ski/snowboard instruction every season. My daughter had a soccer teammate a few years ago that had done it with a sibling and enjoyed it. Here's a link:

http://www.blueangelsnow.com/program_info.html

They also operate in No. CA, utilizing the Sierra-at-Tahoe ski area.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

Logistics and probably quality of instruction make admin's and EMSC's constructive suggestions very difficult in this region.

we are 2 to 2 1/2 hours one-way from any ski area

Yes, I suspect Big Bear would be the only chance of that type of program here.

There is a program called Blue Angels that has bus transportation from a number So. CA cities to Mountain High, where they have a 5 week program for youth ski/snowboard instruction every season. My daughter had a soccer teammate a few years ago that had done it with a sibling and enjoyed it. Here's a link:

http://www.blueangelsnow.com/program_info.html

They also operate in No. CA, utilizing the Sierra-at-Tahoe ski area.

Minimum age of 7 though. From a quick search, it doesn't appear as though Snow Summit has any seasonal or multi-week programs. Grumble.