Mt. Baldy, Feb. 13, 2010

Tony Crocker

Administrator
Staff member
There may have been powder Wednesday, but as is common in SoCal spring can arrive swiftly. There were spotless clear skies and I dumped hat and sweater by 9:30AM and broke out the spring gloves. And on some of my runs to the bottom I took off my jacket and rode chair 1 up in a T-shirt. Coverage is very good; there are not as many stripped off bare spots as one might expect given the high winds during last week's storms.

I arrived at 7:50 and wound up in the back of the upper lot. The ticket office and chair 1 had opened early so the lines were short and I was at the Notch by 8:10. So I headed for Thunder for some quick laps as I expected lines to build later. The grooming on Bonanza, Robin's and Skyline was the best I've ever seen at Baldy. Note also Baldy's new fan snowgun where the lower Thunder runs merge.
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Bonanza and Robin's were in perfect condition and Skyline was no doubt considerably improved from the wind effect Garry reported Wednesday.

After a few of these I ventured into Emile's. Despite it's sheltered exposure there was quite a bit of hard snow. It rained all day a week ago, and despite 2+ feet of snow since then the wind may have blown a lot of it. The other problem with off-piste runs was the ice cookies that have been falling off the trees during the last 3 days' weather warmup. Those are also the product of last Saturday's rain. Goldridge was better as there were fewer trees nearby to drop the ice cookies.
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View down Goldridge with beginner area, Notch and Chair 4 in background.

I thought lift lines on Thunder would build, but they never got over ~20 people. I left at 10:15 when I thought the chair 4 runs would have soft corn. They were indeed in excellent shape, also assisted by more grooming than usual. I soon found out that Baldy has 2 new grooming snowcats, so it is now more intermediate friendly than historically. Even GPaul would have been quite pleased with this morning's conditions.
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Here's Spring Ridge, groomed wider than before.

I diverted into Holcumac at 11AM, none too soon.
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The off-piste sunny exposures have partially consolidated, and while not quite corn yet still skied well with proper timing where smooth. But navigation is required to find good lines free of the ubiquitous cookies. These runs should improve over the next week of sun (expected ~80F in L.A.) as the snow consolidates and the cookies melt. Getting back to Chair 1 was not easy as lower runs in the shade were still frozen granular.

Back up chair 1 for a quick lunch, then 4 more runs on Chair 4.
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View of tubing park with Thunder runs from Goldridge at left to Emile's at right in background.

Top of Roller Coaster with wind-blasted tree at left and San Gorgonio visible in far distance at right.
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Baldy has used its new groomers on a thin strip of the wind ridge and to build a jump on the lower part of Turkey Shoot.
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Along with the new snow guns, Baldy finally completed it new snowmaking reservoir last summer. Here it is next to Mullin's Mile.
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My last run from Chair 4 at 1:30 was Eric's to the back of the parking lot. Conditions were similar to Holcumac earlier.
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The snow was smoother for most of the run, probably because many of the cookies had rolled to the bottom. I had to pick my way there, but the gully runout was not too bad.

On the ride up Chair 1 I noticed the steep runs were getting afternoon sun, so I tried Nightmare. Snow was more consolidated but there were the usual cookies to dodge. On the way up Chair 1 I observed a classic Southern California Heelslide, leaving its telltale track behind.
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I spent the late afternoon on Thunder, hitting now sun softened runs like Herb's and finally Liftline. I also ventured 2 runs in South Bowl. The top had about 5 turns of perfect corn before degenerating into a mix of slab and cookies.
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My second South Bowl run I traversed most of the way to hit the direct north exposure. There was an occasional powder turn out there, but there were also hard spots, irregularities and the usual cookies falling from the trees.

End of the day run was Bentley's. By doing the periodic traverses left there were a series of smooth lines, definitely the best conditions on the lower mountain. But still spring conditions, so save it for late in the day. Despite the early signs of potential crowds, lift lines never got long and I finished the day with 25,600.

I noted several improvements at Baldy this year: the new snow guns, the reservoir, the new grooming machines, also new snow fences along Skyline and some new trail signs. I heard there is a new investor/partial owner, and by sheer fluke I rode my last chair on Thunder with him at 3:45PM. Needless to say Tom Treaccar and I had a lengthy conversation. He's been trying to get involved for awhile, and finally the family ownership saw the light and let him buy in last year. Tom's first steps are to put some more professionalism into the operation, for example replacing the missing slats on many of the chairs. He is also interested in eventually upgrading Chair 1 and Thunder to fixed triples or quads.

I of course inquired about the proposed backside expansion. Mt. Baldy did have permits for that, but since they never had the money to build the permits expired perhaps a decade ago. Thus a revised Environmental Impact Statement will be needed, and as we all know that is an expensive process. Tom believe that upgrades like the area has done this season will lead to fewer consumer complaints and establish more credibility with the Forest Service. The Forest Service is more likely to cooperate with expansion plans once Baldy management is perceived as more competent than their historical reputation. So the expansion is not imminent, though Baldy will probably take necessary steps to oppose proposals to lock up the Lytle Creek drainage as Wilderness.

Relations with the Forest Service also have relevance to Mt. Waterman's situation. The Stubblefield ownership created a lot of ill will, and the new Metcalf group has had to struggle a lot to turn that around. The Forest Service has not placed much priority plowing the road to Waterman, though in fairness they have their hands full with Station Fire damage on the lower parts of the Angeles Crest. In my early days of skiing Mt. Baldy also had quite a few road delays after storms. Tom and I both noted that cooperation has been good in getting Baldy's road plowed on a timely basis since the early 90's.
 
Beautiful pictures from a great lookin' day! Gotta get up Baldy again myself one of these days. Thanks for sharing!
 
Nice pics and a thorough report, as usual! Thanks also for the update on the backside expansion. Good impromptu interview with the new guy. Sounds like he is making steps in the right direction, although one of the side effects will be even more competition on powder days. That's part of the price of progress, I suppose.
 
On that improved professionalism: I was getting on Ch. 1 Wednesday when one liftie was telling another that they were being monitored at times to make sure they were assisting people getting on the chairs (grabbing/slowing down the chair as it swung around for the next rider).
 
SoCal Rider":6ezicpto said:
On that improved professionalism: I was getting on Ch. 1 Wednesday when one liftie was telling another that they were being monitored at times to make sure they were assisting people getting on the chairs (grabbing/slowing down the chair as it swung around for the next rider).

So glad to learn that they've been getting more professional up there when it comes to assisting patrons with the chairs. Was privy to some horror stories about that subject from some of the staff the last time I was up there. Obvious room for improvement at that time, like a couple of years ago.
 
Can I ask a basic question about ticket sales at Mt. Baldy:

Why does it routinely seem to take 30-45 minutes to buy a lift ticket? I often see people reference the ticket line.

This just seems unacceptable. I don't think I've ever waited for a pass in a line that long anywhere.
 
ChrisC":2stiv3gi said:
Can I ask a basic question about ticket sales at Mt. Baldy:

Why does it routinely seem to take 30-45 minutes to buy a lift ticket? I often see people reference the ticket line.

This just seems unacceptable. I don't think I've ever waited for a pass in a line that long anywhere.

It is unacceptable. They basically have 1-3 (I think) windows that they CAN open. Take a line of 100+ people and you see how long it can take.

Also, on a day with new snow , for some reason they don't sell tickets till they are "open" so you stand in line for a long time for tickets then stand again for the lift. Seems like they need to just sell the tickets first then let you stand in line for the lift, like every other mountain does.
 
it was never that bad. its gotten really bad this last year so much so i often make the drive to big bear/snow valley now vs. dealing with the ticket window lines.

when will they ever get it? they can make 10x as much $ if they were to hire 2 more people to sell tickets.......

welcome to baldy.
 
With regard to the ticket windows:
1) There does appear to be a maximum of 3 windows. Sometimes one of them is reserved for cash only and moves faster. I've occasionally seen them send someone out to the line to handle cash sales. The bottom line is get there early.
2) While they have not expanded the number of windows they did start selling tickets earlier than normal Saturday, probably anticipating a big turnout. Tom mentioned that by noon there were so many snowplayers that the CHP blocked the road and wouldn't let more people drive in even though Baldy's parking was not completely full.
3) On the powder days I'm inclined to see their point about delaying selling tickets. Think of the mess that would ensue if they sold tickets at 8AM, had delays in digging out or deicing chairs and had to deal with a bunch of people wanting refunds or rain checks.

jojo_obrien":39mmgnrw said:
they can make 10x as much $ if they were to hire 2 more people to sell tickets.......
How many days each season would it matter? Not too many by my experience. I think it might make sense to have a couple of the food service people from the Notch work tickets for the first couple of hours on anticipated big days.
 
Tony Crocker":1k9mzjhi said:
With regard to the ticket windows:
1) There does appear to be a maximum of 3 windows. Sometimes one of them is reserved for cash only and moves faster. I've occasionally seen them send someone out to the line to handle cash sales. The bottom line is get there early.
They did this on the Wednesday I was there. Had 1-2 people come out at different times to deal with either cash ticket sales or the special deals from a local retailer. They would have been better off setting up a temp booth to just handle more people on a consistent basis.

2) While they have not expanded the number of windows they did start selling tickets earlier than normal Saturday, probably anticipating a big turnout. Tom mentioned that by noon there were so many snowplayers that the CHP blocked the road and wouldn't let more people drive in even though Baldy's parking was not completely full.
3) On the powder days I'm inclined to see their point about delaying selling tickets. Think of the mess that would ensue if they sold tickets at 8AM, had delays in digging out or deicing chairs and had to deal with a bunch of people wanting refunds or rain checks.
Two things about that. First, every other resort in North America does opens the ticket window early and let's people stand in line at the chair. Why is Baldy different? What is the likelihood that they can't get the mtn open in time to give people value for their money? It's simple. Open the window early. Take the money from the customers who are lining up to give it to you. Communicate. Communicate. Communicate! Ice hold? Tell people. Lift 1 going to open in an hour? Tell people. Put a chalk board up. It's not that hard. Have a policy that if the lifts aren't open by noon, you are eligible for a refund. Not too difficult. The ticket window silliness is so anomalous that it's made its way to legendary status on the Internet. That's awful marketing. Great for me - more snow for those it turns away. Not good for business though.

jojo_obrien":1k9mzjhi said:
they can make 10x as much $ if they were to hire 2 more people to sell tickets.......
How many days each season would it matter? Not too many by my experience. I think it might make sense to have a couple of the food service people from the Notch work tickets for the first couple of hours on anticipated big days.

Ski areas make hay, and establish much of their marketing image, on the handful of big days (weekends, powder days and holidays) when you would be most likely to expect lines. It's important to have the ability to flex the staffing at the ticket window on these critical days to handle these surges. Your suggestion is a good one re: Notch personnel.

Great TR overall. Disappointing to hear the news on the backside expansion. Didn't know the permits had expired and that will be a long, long expensive process to get them back. So expensive, in fact, that it's probably not even worth discussing anymore until halfway through the process. Certainly shouldn't be on their trail maps. That's crazy talk. Also disappointing to hear they are considering upgrading capacity on Thunder. It gets tracked out plenty quick as it is. Upgrading Ch 1 is smart of course. If they could make it a detach for better downloading, even better. Any replacement of Ch 3 should consider moving the base further downhill into that drainage to really bring South Bowl more into play.
 
Communicate! Ice hold? Tell people. Lift 1 going to open in an hour?
They do, and they are infamous for being wide of the mark in either direction in estimating when lifts will open. Last Feb. 17 I went home at 9AM when I was told Thunder would open about 3PM at best, later to find out it opened at 11AM. :evil: :x
 
Tony Crocker":1v4uguuf said:
Communicate! Ice hold? Tell people. Lift 1 going to open in an hour?
They do, and they are infamous for being wide of the mark in either direction in estimating when lifts will open. Last Feb. 17 I went home at 9AM when I was told Thunder would open about 3PM at best, later to find out it opened at 11AM. :evil: :x
You're never going to get it right all the time, but in the absence of information, people invariably assume the worst.
 
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