New Peruvian Lift at Snowbird

[awf170]

Administrator's Note added June 27, 2005: This post and subsequent replies was split off from a discussion/photos of Snowbird skiing June 25, inspired by this photo:

The original photo caption was this:

"The excavation site for the tunnel that will link Peruvian Gulch and Mineral Basin, accompanied by a new high-speed detachable quad reaching that point from the Tram base area (replacing the existing Peruvian double)."

that tunnel looks like quite the project, so that quad is goin to be done by next season? you got a link or anything to the expansion page or anything like that

 

[Admin]

that tunnel looks like quite the project, so that quad is goin to be done by next season? you got a link or anything to the expansion page or anything like that

Nothing has officially been released yet. It will take two summers -- the lift & tunnel won't be ready until the 2006-07 winter season.

It is a rather hefty project. I sure wish that it went up to the ridgeline, but the tunnel idea was floated to take the wind out of Save Our Canyons' sails because it doesn't mar the ridgeline viewscape -- not that it's pristine around there or anything, anyway, IMO. I agree with Marc_C, who would like to see something akin to Little Cloud on the Peruvian Gulch side, allowing you to ski the upper mountain only at this time of year. It sure would serve more interesting terrain than Little Cloud does.

 

[awf170]

that tunnel looks like quite the project, so that quad is goin to be done by next season? you got a link or anything to the expansion page or anything like that

Nothing has officially been released yet. It will take two summers -- the lift & tunnel won't be ready until the 2006-07 winter season.

It is a rather hefty project. I sure wish that it went up to the ridgeline, but the tunnel idea was floated to take the wind out of Save Our Canyons' sails because it doesn't mar the ridgeline viewscape -- not that it's pristine around there or anything, anyway, IMO. I agree with Marc_C, who would like to see something akin to Little Cloud on the Peruvian Gulch side, allowing you to ski the upper mountain only at this time of year. It sure would serve more interesting terrain than Little Cloud does.

ya it would be awsome having something like that up there because i hate how you have to ski all the way down the base when all the good snow and terrian is up there

 

[Tony Crocker]

That top terminal location does leave something to be desired: no direct access to The Cirque, Silver Fox or High Baldy. I guess the idea is to go through the tunnel, into Mineral Basin, then use its lift to get up top. Even there, you have to ski the sun-baked part of Mineral Basin and not the drier stuff out that long traverse skier's right from the top.

I would leave the Peruvian chair alone as it's never crowded anyway, and run the new lift from the top of Peruvian.

 

[Admin]

I would leave the Peruvian chair alone as it's never crowded anyway, and run the new lift from the top of Peruvian.

The purpose behind the planned lift, however, isn't to please folks like you and me. It's designed move a large amount of people out of the Tram Plaza as an alternative to the tram, and to provide a second popular intermediate route to take some traffic off of Gad Valley. Right now, Snowbird is seriously lacking easier terrain, but from where this lift will unload will allow low intermediates to cruise Chip's all the way to the bottom, or head into easier Mineral Basin terrain.

What I was conveying above was more of my personal wish list than anything else. But I understand the need for the new lift. I can see Snowbird through my wife's eyes and understand why it could be initimidating to some.

 

[Marc_C]

I can see Snowbird through my wife's eyes and understand why it could be initimidating to some.

In the relatively few seasons I've been here I've encountered more than one person in tears or nearly so on the upper Chips catwalk switchbacks - terrified of falling off the edge into upper Primrose et al and freaking at being passed by high speed skiers and boarders.

Regarding the Bird lift system, instead of a new base-to-tunnel HSDQ replacing the Peruvian, I'd prefer a mid-to-summit or near summit chair ala Little Cloud as Marc mentioned. I'd also consider replacing the 880 skiers/hour tram with an 8 seat gondola. Obviously I haven't thought at all about how this would cross the Cirque.

I'd also like to see a lift in Collins Gulch to somewhere highish on Baldy Shoulder and one to the top of East Castle next door at Alta - as if those will ever happen in my skiing lifetime! Wouldn't mind one going to the ridge line between Sugarloaf Mtn. and Devil's Castle for that matter, either. As long as I'm dreaming or on drugs, there's the Alta expansion beyond Catherine's pass into the Cath's Lake/Dog Lake B/C between Alta and Brighton, with appropriate lifts of course. Naturally, that would require a change in the gravitational constant of the universe to occur. :lol:

 

[Tony Crocker]

Yes I'll admit that the new top terminal and tunnel will be more intermediate-friendly than the Upper Chip's switchbacks.

But that's another reason the loading station should be at the top of Peruvian. Most of the Peruvian chair runs are at least single black by absolute standards. Intermediates will be most comfortable running laps on the broad blue middle section of Chip's, and just descending catwalks to the base (or Rothman's to Gad Valley) for a lunch break or at the end of the day.

Re: intermediate terrain at Snowbird: Is White Pine a lost cause for expansion?

 

[Admin]

Re: intermediate terrain at Snowbird: Is White Pine a lost cause for expansion?

In today's climate, yeah.

 

[awf170]

Re: intermediate terrain at Snowbird: Is White Pine a lost cause for expansion?

In today's climate, yeah.

whats white pine??
that lift is kinda a good idea, then my mom would be able to ski more snowbird, cause there was no way she was doing that upper part of chips.

Isnt there gondolas in europe that have spands and as long of the cirque, i be t there is something you could add that would have more capacity then the tram

 

[Marc_C]

But that's another reason the loading station should be at the top of Peruvian.

However, that does nothing to reduce the pressure on the Tram - one of the two primary reasons stated for the new lift.

 

[Marc_C]

whats white pine??

White Pine is the next drainage to the west of Snowbird - the other side of the ridge that denotes the skiers' left boundary of Gad Valley. Here's the Topozone map.

Perhaps more importantly, White Pine is undeveloped national forest land that is a buffer between highly developed Snowbird and the Lone Peak Wilderness area. For this reason, any development in W.P. will be bitterly fought.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It is possible that a new lift would attract enough people to Peruvian to back it up, but I doubt it. But I am sure that the intermediates being accomodated would prefer not to have to descend that last 1,000 vertical (which are catwalks if you want to keep the pitch blue) every run. The extra traffic will generate icy spots they won't like either at that lower elevation.

So the new lift should be 2-stage with a midstation, or Peruvian should be left there, maybe upgraded to a triple.

 

[ChrisC]

They are going to build a tunnel? WOW! That seems like it will be one long tunnel to Mineral Basin.

What are ski conditions going to be like in the tunnel? Will the have to make snow/truck it in? Will the bumpers on the rock walls?

This seems like a really strange project -- the tunnel part that is.


Frankly, I wish they would just upgrade the Little Cloud to a HS quad and let people off closer to the top. Therefore, you could use Gad - Little Cloud when the tram lines were really long.

 

[awf170]

They are going to build a tunnel? WOW! That seems like it will be one long tunnel to Mineral Basin.

What are ski conditions going to be like in the tunnel? Will the have to make snow/truck it in? Will the bumpers on the rock walls?

This seems like a really strange project -- the tunnel part that is.


Frankly, I wish they would just upgrade the Little Cloud to a HS quad and let people off closer to the top. Therefore, you could use Gad - Little Cloud when the tram lines were really long.

is there room at the summit for little cloud??

 

[Admin]

They are going to build a tunnel? WOW! That seems like it will be one long tunnel to Mineral Basin.

Not really -- 300 feet IIRC.

What are ski conditions going to be like in the tunnel? Will the have to make snow/truck it in? Will the bumpers on the rock walls?

It'll have a Magic Carpet-style conveyor belt. It'll be used to carry skiers departing the new Peruvian chair who want to ski into Mineral Basin.

This seems like a really strange project -- the tunnel part that is.

Not really. Similar setups exist at various locations in Europe. One that I recall distinctly from personal experience is atop the Klein Matterhorn tram at Zermatt:

The tram summit station is blasted into the tip of that pinnacle of rock in the background. You then walk through a tunnel blasted through the mountain and ski down the backside. About midway through the tunnel there's an elevator for sightseers to stand atop the tip of the Klein Matterhorn itself.


Frankly, I wish they would just upgrade the Little Cloud to a HS quad and let people off closer to the top. Therefore, you could use Gad - Little Cloud when the tram lines were really long.[/quote]

 

[awf170]

Not really. Similar setups exist at various locations in Europe. One that I recall distinctly from personal experience is atop the Klein Matterhorn tram at Zermatt:

The tram summit station is blasted into the tip of that pinnacle of rock in the background. You then walk through a tunnel blasted through the mountain and ski down the backside. About midway through the tunnel there's an elevator for sightseers to stand atop the tip of the Klein Matterhorn itself.

Is there any regulations in Europe.... seems like they can build and blast whatever they want, here you have to fight for 10 years to build a simple HSQ and 5 more trails
Zermatt owns snowbird right???

 

[Admin]

Is there any regulations in Europe.... seems like they can build and blast whatever they want, here you have to fight for 10 years to build a simple HSQ and 5 more trails

Environmental regulations are certainly different. Part of that owes to centuries of inhabitation in the Alps -- there are no pristine areas there anymore.

Zermatt owns snowbird right???

No. Texas oil baron Dick Bass owns Snowbird -- and has since he partnered up with the founder as the resort was being created, then bought him out. The townspeople of Zermatt own Zermatt.

 

[ChrisC]

I have not really skied in tunnels before -- except those created by road crossings for luxury home development. (a la Telluride, Beaver Creek, Canyons, etc.)

Europe has engineered their trams to some amzing places - like Zermatt and Chamonix. You almost expect to walk through a tunnel or tight rope to get to the skiing looking at their summit stations on the way up. It seems intuitive. When at was at Zermatt/Klein Matterhorn, most people were walking through the tunnel. There was only snow on the last 30 feet or so.

In the case of Snowbird, I just feel it is a little non-intuitive to expect tunnel access to the backside. Creative maybe.

Also, magic carpet lifts go so slow. They are great for novice slopes and first timers....but generally most skiers can skate faster.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Yes the regs in Europe are different. For example heliskiing is banned in France and some but not all of the Alpine countries.

In both Chamonix and Verbier, and also the Zugspitze which I visited in August 1999 I get the strong impression that many of these trams were built as much if not more for summer sightseers as for winter skiers. They are close to the top of scenic peaks and all have observation decks at the highest point.

And inevitably you must walk down lots of stairs (170 vertical feet at Grands-Montets) before you put your skis on instead of just onto the snow as at Squaw, Jackson, Snowbird. So it seems to me that the placement of these upper tram stations in Europe was designed for the summer sightseers.

 

[Admin]

In the case of Snowbird, I just feel it is a little non-intuitive to expect tunnel access to the backside. Creative maybe.

Most of the creativity employed in Snowbird's case is in avoiding opposition. Save Our Canyons, the most vocal opponent of just about any ski resort development in the Wasatch (and the most litigious) actually gives this lift their blessing because it doesn't mar the ridgeline viewscape.