New skis for kids

[Admin]

(Note: I'm posting this for Annmarief, who posted this on our old server and this message was lost as a casualty of our switch to the new server. - Admin)

How do you know when your children need new skis? Do you base it on the condition of the skis, the length, the ablity of the skier? My kids have been on their current skis since they began sking. The skis are 2 years old, and have been used every weekend in the winter, and on 3 trips out west. They are getting pretty beat up; however, they still get them down the hill. But, they a lot better skiers now also! (The kids are 4, 7, & 7)

Advice? Thanks!

 

[Tony Crocker]

I can recall the progression detailed below for my son Adam. Key points:
1) Most of this is before the shaped ski era. I don't know how much kids' sizes have come down.
2) Adam was small for his age before puberty: 65 pounds at age 10, 5'1" and 90 pounds at age 15. He's now 6'0" and 140.
3) He was skiing expert terrain (Climax at Mammoth, North Face of Crested Butte, Spiral Stairs at Telluride) at age 7.

The smallest skis were always purchased cheap at fall swap meets.
Age 4-6: Started at 80cm, moved to 90 and 100 but don't recall the exact timing.
Age 7: 100cm, clearly overpowering the skis by the end of that season.
Age 8: 120cm.
Age 9: 140cm in early season, but it was now evident that swap meet skis weren't going to cut it anymore. So he got 150cm Rossi 7SKjr. at a midseason sale.
Age 10-12: Stayed with the 7SKjr. But before the age 10 season he had to go to junior racing overlap boots. Usually he could get 2 seasons out of a boot, but at least twice he would ski his first day in December, and we would have to get a new boot RIGHT NOW because his foot had grown enough to make it painful.
Age 13-15: 170 cm Rossi Viper C. This had some sidecut but was still mostly a conventional ski. In 1999 and 2000 Adam demoed a lot of new shaped skis.
Age 16-17: 173cm Salomon X-Free, first shaped ski. He beat them up some at Mike Douglas' camp learning railslides. I picked up a used pair of Salomon 1080's for him after that, but he hasn't pursued the park scene that much. Adam hit his growth spurt and was overpowering the X-Frees after a year.
Age 17-21: 183cm K2 Four. These were my ex-wife's ski for one week in Colorado in 1997. She quit skiing afer that season and Adam claimed them in 2001. After a 10-year layoff his mom skied a couple of days this season. So Adam returned the Fours to her, remarking that he had "softened them up for you a little." The Fours were serviceable for 3 years of college GS and skiercross.
Age 19+: 170cm Rossi 9S. Purchased used and nearly exclusively skied for college slalom.
Age 20+: 178cm Dynastar 8800. Lots of demos the previous season to find a big mountain/soft snow ski.
Age 22+: 175cm Volkl Allstar Titanium. These replaced/upgraded the K2 Fours.

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure. At the young ages, ask around and see what the appropriate length is for height/weight. Pre-season swaps are the way to go. This works for boots too, with a reasonably normal foot shape.

You and/or instructors can observe if your kid is overpowering the skis. Mostly from lack of stability when the speed picks up on the groomers. For off-piste they are going to bounce around more than adults just from their light weight.

The tougher decisions come when the kids' ability requires higher performance equipment. In SoCal there was never much of a swap meet market for this, so I had to buy new, and more frequently than I'd like in the case of boots. I suspect JSpin will have better luck in this regard with Ty in Vermont.

The good news is that the high performance gear will still be in decent shape when outgrown and can usually be passed down to the next kid in line.

Patrick should comment since his daughter is 9 and in a race program.

 

[Annmarief]

Thanks Tony. Based on what you have said, I think the length of their skis will probably be fine. Boots....growing feet are a given. Last year we bought boots for 2 of the 3 of them.

My 4 yr. old is skiing on 90 cm which was the smallest I was able to find 2 years ago. At Whistler in April, she liked skiing gladed blacks, that she could get in and out of during the toughest parts. (ie. Arthor's Choice which is next to a blue hill). However, she parallels much better on blues. She is tall & thin for her age (41").

My son who is 7 (almost 8 yrs. old), is more of a "fun" skier. He loves the groomed blues, jumps, gladed hills, and the terrain park. He is skiing on 100cm skis. His skills are great, he would rather relax and have fun than push his abilities....fine with me That is what it is about in my opinion. He is small for his age in both weight and height.

His twin sister is skiing on 110 cm. She is 3-4 inches taller than him and VERY competative.....and aggressive....in anything that involves racing. She is getting bored on anything not black. She likes to race, however, I only let her do it a few times a year. She loves moguls, trees, & steep. Her favorite hill at Whistler was Little Whistler Bowl & skiing powder...anywhere. Her only negative is that she only weighs 50 pounds. She is 49 inches tall. I am wondering if she would benifit from a more challenging ski, but in the same length?

I guess I am more worried on the condition of the skis. They are pretty beat up. They have skied on them almost every weekend from Christmas - spring break for the last 2 years. And, they have been out west skiing with them 3 times where they skied every day. We have skied in some pretty lean snow conditions...terrible on their skis.

I never was interested in racing....I don't know that much about equipment. (I do love my skis, but I did the demo thing to choose them when I was in CO in 2006). I don't really know how to choose skis for the kids.

Any suggestions on determining wear? If I do need to get them new skis, what do I look for? I must admit, it would be nice to get by with just buying boots that are necessary again this year!

Thank you again!
Ann

 

[Tony Crocker]

Your older daughter will be wanting/needing for racing the high performance gear soon. Since racing is a much bigger part of the scene in Michigan than SoCal, maybe you have a chance of getting the gear at swaps.

But racers are pickier than most skiers about condition of equipment. I think Patrick is better served to give you advice:
1) His background was in racing.
2) Ottawa's ski culture is probably similar to yours.
3) He has a 9-year old daughter in a local organized ski program.

 

[J.Spin]

At the young ages, ask around and see what the appropriate length is for height/weight. Pre-season swaps are the way to go. This works for boots too, with a reasonably normal foot shape.

We hit the first swap of the season last weekend at South Burlington High School, and got some new/used stuff for Ty (age 4) because he’s been on his current skis for two seasons and it seemed like time to move up in size (both skis & boots). When we inquired about current recommendations in sizing at the swap, the associates indicated that the general rule of thumb (not sure if this was what they were recommending for just kids or for all skiers) was going with a ski height between the chin and nose. They said that if Ty liked shorter turns (trees, etc.), go for the chin height, and if he liked longer turns (groomed, fast, etc.) go for the nose. I haven't felt that Ty is that specialized yet, but there were only so many sizing options anyway – he’s now in the zone where the ski sizes seem to jump up in steps of 10 cm (80 cm, 90 cm, and 100 cm skis). The 90 cm skis were right at his mouth, so that seemed like a good option. There were at least a couple dozen pairs to choose from in 90 cm alone, both new and used, which was really nice. I just went with a model that had a nice, deep looking side cut (I’ve literally been able to watch how the generous side cut on his current skis has enabled him to carve). The pair I was most interested in (and fortunately Ty liked as well) turned out to be a new set of Dynamics, but as far as new or used went, all these skis are so inexpensive that it probably doesn’t matter too much unless you have a really large family. The new pair of skis with bindings was $129, and in general the used pairs in nice shape were going for around $79. I’m not opposed to buying new when we’re likely to get roughly four seasons out of them between him and his brother. The bindings on his skis and many of the available kid’s skis were like demo-style bindings with a lot of adjustable heel positions; this is probably good for changing boot heel size before they outgrow the skis. Actually, I was blown away by the options in kids skis they had at the swap. We bought Ty’s previous pair of skis new at our local ski shop in Montana, and got them in a 76 cm, which was the smallest size they had in that line. Once again there were at least a couple dozen pairs of skis in this size range alone at the swap, and I was amazed that there were even smaller pairs (probably around 70 cm) available.

You and/or instructors can observe if your kid is overpowering the skis. Mostly from lack of stability when the speed picks up on the groomers. For off-piste they are going to bounce around more than adults just from their light weight.

While I haven’t specifically noticed these signs with Ty, we just figured that after two years he had probably grown enough that we’d better look into new skis (his boots are getting small as well, so we knew those needed to be changed). After getting the sizing advice at the swap, it certainly looks like it was time for him to upsize as his 76 cm skis are now well below his chin. It will be interesting to see how things go on the new 90 cm skis. We also decided to finally get him some poles at the swap, so that is really going to be an interesting experiment. Deciding on whether or not to use poles seems incredibly arbitrary when compared to ski sizing. But, this will be Ty’s fourth season on skis, and he has certainly been observing and inquiring about poles throughout his skiing development. The smallest styles of poles they had available at the swap last week were just a couple inches too long for Ty, so I cut them down to fit. But, at least he’s roughly in the range of available pole sizes so I don’t think getting them is too much of a long shot at this point. I don’t doubt that Ty will able to use them to some degree for weighting and timing from what I’ve observed with him, we’ll just have to see if he’s willing to actually focus on that and commit to it, or if he’s just going to forget about them in his hands. In any event he will really enjoy finally having them for traversing/skating, as he’s noticed that they are extremely useful in that regard. That will potentially save those of us that ski with him some work, and let us focus more on Dylan’s skiing.

The tougher decisions come when the kids' ability requires higher performance equipment. In SoCal there was never much of a swap meet market for this, so I had to buy new, and more frequently than I'd like in the case of boots. I suspect JSpin will have better luck in this regard with Ty in Vermont.

It was interesting that in Montana, while there must have been some ski swaps, I have only the vaguest recollection of possibly hearing about one up in Missoula, so I’m guessing they must be much less frequent than in Vermont. I’m not even sure if we would have been able to get Ty his previous pair of skis out there through a swap instead of through our local ski shop (where I believe we still had to either order them or get them from another store). I’d never really focused on kid’s skis back when I used to frequent the ski swaps here in Vermont before our time out in Montana (Ty and Dylan hadn’t been born then), but I was honestly blown away by the selection of kids skis we found last week. There were probably 75-100 pairs of new and used kid’s skis up through the 100 cm range at that first swap alone, and there’s basically a ski swap every week around here in one place or another out through November. I’m not sure about the higher-performance subset in this range, but there was a wide range of ski types so I’d be surprised if some weren’t performance oriented. Many of the swaps around here are put on by ski/race clubs, so I’d think those would be especially likely to have performance gear. We also found that there was a huge selection of ski boots in Ty’s size range (he was in a mondo 14.5, now he’s in a mondo 17) at last week’s swap. We got him a used pair of ski boots that look to be in very good shape and are of the two-buckle design – which seemed to be the more performance-oriented boots in this size range when I was getting his initial boots a couple of years ago.

In terms of other performance/specialized gear, the swaps also seem to carry plenty of Telemark and Nordic equipment. Ty has been inquiring about Telemark skiing, so we will probably get him some Tele gear to try as soon as he is in the size range. We told him that this season was too soon (smallest sizes I’ve seen in the Garmont kids line of Telemark equipment are around mondo 19-22) but he will probably be very close next season so introducing him to Telemark at that point is the plan. I even saw a couple pairs of kid’s Telemark boots at the swap last weekend, so that’s a good sign that there is used stuff out there too. E and I are pretty set in terms of needing any new alpine stuff, but we’ll be hitting the swaps for Telemark equipment so we can make sure our Tele skills are up to snuff when Ty starts. We both enjoyed Telemark skiing the times we did it at Lost Trail in Montana, and Bolton Valley is a hotbed of Telemark skiing around here (they have weekly Thursday night Telemark clinics/lessons that they call Tele-Thursdays) so it should be a good fit. E scored a nice pair of Garmont Telemark boots last week at the swap for $69, but we haven’t found a super Telemark boot deal for me yet, and we’re still looking for some nice deals on Tele skis and bindings for both of us. We actually may get some standard Nordic gear for Ty to let him get the feel of a free heel if we find stuff in his size at one of the swaps. If we get even half the snow we had last season, there should be plenty of opportunities for Ty to join us in cross country skiing trips from the house on days that we don’t head up to the mountain. I’m not sure if Dylan is ready to try Nordic stuff yet however, I think the freedom of movement in the boots seems to make it tougher than alpine. We’re actually off to the Milton ski swap in a couple of hours to continue our searching; swaps are certainly one of the greatest concepts around in terms of getting ski gear.

J.Spin

 

[Annmarief]

Thank you for all of your advice. And, you are correct....my daughter is asking for new equipment. However, after talking to a High School Ski coach, several ski shops, and some friends, I have finially come to the conclusion to wait one more year before investing in new equipment again. I decided she didn't need to go longer. So, it became a performance issue. Not one ski shop I spoke with could put her into a ski that they felt would be an advantage to her (with the exception of that it is a new ski.) They said, "wait until she is big enough to handle a 120 ski, then get her a racing ski." I did get her new boots & new polls (she lost one pole last year and her feet grew.) And, I promissed I would get her gear waxed EVERY time she races. She was happy with that Well, I should say, she will be happy with that until she sees her best friends new skis! However, all kids need to learn to deal with a bit of jealousy, it is good for them!

Think Snow!