New Webserver, disappearing archives

[Admin]

Folks, if you're reading this message, you're enjoying First Tracks!! Online Ski Magazine on a brand spanking-new server. Through countless hours of toil and trouble we're now at a new Linux-based web host in Texas. We only lost one recent Liftlines posting in the process! (annemarief, sorry about that - it was yours on kid's equipment and I reposted it on your behalf).

You may need to make some minor tweaks, such as adjusting your preferred time zone, but I'm sure that you'll find the faster, leaner and meaner FTO to your liking.

One (the only) regrettable casualty of our relocation, and switch from a Windows 2000 box to Linux, is our archive of Liftlines postings from 2004 and earlier. The software used to generate those forums is now terribly antiquated, does not qualify for support, and we were unable to get it functioning properly on this Linux machine. The old server will remain up for a couple of additional weeks, so if you want to save stuff from the archives, go to http://216.250.243.13/discus2/discus.pl now and download it.

If you find a thing or two broken, and you probably will...please let me know!

Next up, we'll start working on getting First Tracks!! Online Media's newest project, UtahSkiandSnowboard.com, up and running. It will be accessible via that URL plus UTSkiing.com and UtahSkiingOnline.com. The project was on hold until the server move was completed and will feature ski news and a forum community particularly focused on Utah skiing and snowboarding.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I do not consider this an acceptable situation with the archives. I cannot anticipate in the next two weeks what I might want to look up in the archives in the future.

Surely there are options for storing archives somewhere. For example the early season analysis I wrote for SKIING magazine's website in 2001 was removed a couple of years ago. But I found it here: http://web.archive.org/web/200605270943 ... 38,00.html

 

[Admin]

I do not consider this an acceptable situation with the archives. I cannot anticipate in the next two weeks what I might want to look up in the archives in the future.

I anticipated push-back from you of course, Tony, but there is no option. I've spent countless hours trying to rectify the situation without success. As this move stands to improve speed and operation of the website overall, save us (me) literally thousands of dollars per year, and provide us with substantial room for growth, we'll have to be satisfied with what is currently three years of archives and growing to be maintained online.

Surely there are options for storing archives somewhere.

If there were, I would have taken one. Moving the archive scripts from their current location to anywhere else involves the same problems encountered in trying to move them here. The system is antiquated and no longer supported by its creator, and the old server is soon to be shut down. I don't even have access to the script's documentation anymore. I can't afford to spend several thousand dollars annually just to maintain those archives on the old server.

OTOH, I'll send out the call here for the hell of it: if anyone out there is familiar with the workings of the Discus 4.00.7 CGI script, ca. 2002, on a Linux server, and/or knows of an effective way to import its messages into PHPBB2, let me know.

For example the early season analysis I wrote for SKIING magazine's website in 2001 was removed a couple of years ago. But I found it here: http://web.archive.org/web/200605270943 ... 38,00.html

If you can find old postings via a web archive service, that's one solution to be decided by the individual. Note, though, that even Time Warner (Skiing Magazine) expires stuff and they have far more financial resources to throw at this kind of problem than I do.

 

[Patrick]

I do not consider this an acceptable situation with the archives. I cannot anticipate in the next two weeks what I might want to look up in the archives in the future.

I anticipated push-back from you of course, Tony, but there is no option.

I guess you anticipated my response to this also?

First I want to congratulate you with all the long hours you've put in this website, but Marc....

Please, there has to be a way. [-o< I'm not the type of person to beg....but I'm begging you know, please find a solution.

Please...pretty please...not only for me, but for the Ski Universe and Ski Historians everywhere. Where else can you find ski August TRs in the East, heck, were having more difficulty to find snow in July, let alone ski on it. Those archives are a GOLD MINE...don't give up, please don't give up. [-o< [-o< [-o<

I'm pathetic, n'est pas?

 

[Patrick]

I just noticed I cannot "edit" my spelling mistakes. :mrgreen:

Ah yes, and the pop-up when you're not registered message is out of whack. :roll:

 

[Admin]

Well, it's not optimal, but I do have an idea. I've zipped up all of the messages into an archive. I'm presently uploading the zip file and will let you know the URL to download once it's available. It will be a 112 MB download, so you'll want to retain the file and not download it each time. You can then unzip the files to your local hard drive and have a local copy to search. The unfortunate part is that the links from index pages and between message pages won't work (they'll work only until the online copy is removed), nor will the script's search utility, but as HTML pages are just text files you can use your operating system's file search utility to search within the files for search terms. For example, I just tried using Windows XP's file search to search within the folder for "Steamboat" and it output each posting that referenced Steamboat. The good news is that photos, etc. will be included and will display within each post.

As for the other issues, thanks...I'll look into them.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm pathetic too. I'm willing to grovel at least as much as Patrick on this issue.

I guess the "History of Vermont Snow Conditions" needs to be moved to the top of my web priority list. Comprehensive FTO reports go back to 1999-2000 I think.

There are other applications. For example my Powder Archive Page which references several FTO reports from the epic 2001 eastern season.

Also, one way to maintain a diary of your own experience is to have a simple file with date and the URL of the reports you filed here.

People are constantly drawing rash conclusions based on recent or the current season's weather/conditions. The more past info we have to look up and compare, the clearer picture we get. Throwing out those 5 seasons of reports would be a big loss.

The downloaded zip file will probably be adequate for the nutcases like Patrick and me. But they will be less user friendly and it will be more difficult to share information widely. At a minimum I would expect admin to save the archive on his own computer before the old server goes down. Then, if a solution cannot be found soon but emerges later, the archives are not lost but can be resuscitated.

I have always been under the impression that server storage space was subject to Moore's Law, and thus is becoming more dirt cheap every year. The archives don't get intensive use and don't need to be on the most sophisticated or responsive server. Cheap should be more than adequate.

 

[Patrick]

As for the other issues, thanks...I'll look into them.

I noticed that the "Edit" button was only missing on the post I did in this FYI discussion. :shock:

Well, it's not optimal, but I do have an idea. (...)You can then unzip the files to your local hard drive and have a local copy to search.

The problem with that solution is that it will only become a personal archive. I'm might have though of this, isn't there a way to cut&paste posts? I can just you say..."Are you nuts, you're talking about &*%&?*? posts!!!!" I don't know, just brainstorming here.

The benefit would be the old archives could be into included in the new FTO format.

You just need to need a sucker, erhh, someone to start copying and pasting. :?

As this is by far the most active of our Liftlines BBS sections, I've opted to crosspost the following message from our System Annoucements section.

First Tracks!! Online Ski Magazine is proud to announce that it will transition from a virtual server(...)
We will update you regarding the progress of the transition as it occurs.

 

[Tony Crocker]

You just need to need a sucker, erhh, someone to start copying and pasting.

You mean, like someone who is willing to drive 9 hours roundtrip and hike 5 hours in the rain to ski a 65 vertical foot scrap of snow? Think of how many posts you could have cut and pasted in those 14 hours!

 

[Patrick]

You just need to need a sucker, erhh, someone to start copying and pasting.

You mean, like someone who is willing to drive 9 hours roundtrip and hike 5 hours in the rain to ski a 65 vertical foot scrap of snow? Think of how many posts you could have cut and pasted in those 14 hours!

:shock: :roll: :? ](*,) 8-[

 

[Admin]

The problem with that solution is that it will only become a personal archive.

Unless the poster who wants to reference it copies and pastes the content and reference into their own post.

I'm might have though of this, isn't there a way to cut&paste posts? I can just you say..."Are you nuts, you're talking about &*%&?*? posts!!!!" I don't know, just brainstorming here.

Are you nuts, you're talking about &*%&?*? posts!!!!

OTOH, I seem to have at least one volunteer who's stepped forward. :wink: It would be a bit more than a simple copy and paste operation -- the person entering the data would also have to save and upload any included images. Then there's the problem of heirarchy -- the posts would adopt the date and time of the entry into the new system, not the date and time of the original post.

As this is by far the most active of our Liftlines BBS sections, I've opted to crosspost the following message from our System Annoucements section.

First Tracks!! Online Ski Magazine is proud to announce that it will transition from a virtual server(...)
We will update you regarding the progress of the transition as it occurs.

Yeah, well... at first that web host was responsive and delivered on its promises. Over time that faded. I'm seeing if we can get by on a virtual host again, and thus far the speed of this site since the changeover seems to support that notion. Through all of this whining, have you folks noticed the impressive improvement in speed???

 

[Admin]

OK, there's hope yet. I just found a support forum thread from April wherein a user created a conversion script between the two forum softwares. It's a homemade job, so it's not a polished script or anything, and given my lack of familiarity with certain programming functions involved I'm reluctant to experiment with it here. However, the author of the script took a small fee from another forum admin in my circumstance and did the conversion for him successfully. I'm just PM'd the author via that support forum to see if he'd extend the same offer to FTO as well. If so, I'll take him up on it.

In the meantime, the archived postings may now be downloaded here:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/downlo ... 9-2004.zip

 

[Patrick]

Thanks Marc,

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It occurred to both Patrick and me that parceling out the cut and paste job is an option. There are still questions that would need to be answered. As Marc points out, the post date is going to be the new upload date rather than the original post date. Clearly the archives will need to have separate partitions created. As we all know, uploading of pictures on FTO is very tedious. This is potentially an awful job if it has to be done one-by-one (and in reverse order within post) for each archive report with pics.

I've already downloaded the archive. All the resort reports (East, West and elsewhere) are in one directory. The html file names are numeric, in the order of original post date of the thread. You can find an old thread in ~5 tries, as long as you know when it was first posted. Some of the numeric names are .jpg files. You can ignore those, because the html files do have the pics embedded.

Presumably Marc has also downloaded the archive. Thus I don't view its salvation as an emergency situation with a short deadline. Marc has time to explore an efficient solution. If he can't find one, then we need to think about reloading the reports. Marc should define the new partitions, hopefully find a better way to deal with the pictures, then send out explicit instructions to us peons doing the grunt work.

 

[riverc0il]

While it is a noble effort to save the historical data, I will shed any tears if the achieves are lost. The cost to Marc and FTO is certainly not worth information that only a handful of users probably access. Then again, having all my personal trip reports, pictures, and historical season data dating back to 2000 saved on my own PC and my web page certainly makes me biased. Ski VT-L has a TON of first hand reports dating back well into the 90s if historical data is important (granted you will need to dig through tons of OT topics!). The full download of all the data is a super solution to meet the needs of a few dedicated history buffs. Just my opinion.

 

[Admin]

OK, folks...an update.

1. Bad news: I haven't heard back from that migration script author yet, although I do have a line on reaching him via email now.

2. Worse news: I tried running the migration script myself, and despite my best efforts I've only encountered parsing errors that halt it.

3. Great news: I found some documentation, and after 3 more hours of work I finally got the old forum script to work on the new server! It may now be viewed at http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/

I'm going to keep trying to get a hold of the migration script author. If he can get it to work for a reasonable fee, we'll have the archives fully integrated into the current forum software.

 

[Tony Crocker]

If I read correctly, the crisis is over. We're in the same situation as before the new server. The archives exist in the old format.

The migration script would do what?
Change the archive cosmetics to resemble the new boards?
Archive posts would actually be included in the new boards under the broad topic headings? Thus searches would reference relevant files from all posts going back to 1999?

Like riverc0il I can appreciate the work that goes into FTO. It's a considerable multiple of what I do to support my little niche in the ski world. I'd appreciate the potential enhancements of the migration script, but I'm grateful to have the archives in any form.

We have discussed on previous threads the maintenance of personal ski data. While mine are not as detailed as Frankontour's or as aesthetically pleasing to the outside viewer as riverc0il's or JSpin's, they are somewhat unique in that they date back to the inception of my ski career. Unfortunately they are handwritten in tiny print, with a limited amount of quantifiable data computerized, in complex APL programs that I wrote in 1993. It has occurred to me that I should put all of this into Excel , and that Excel pivot tables can produce all the breakdowns and more that I have now. For each day (since about 2001) having a URL to my FTO post would be a nice feature to include.

But it's still going to take awhile to type in 823 days worth of info. And it's a higher priority (and fortunately smaller job) to get my snowfall stats out of APL and completely in Excel. The APL is a DOS version circa 1990, and every time Windows is updated there is a question whether it will work any more.

So much for the extended summer ramble. Congrats to Marc for solving the problem of the day!

 

[Admin]

If I read correctly, the crisis is over. We're in the same situation as before the new server. The archives exist in the old format.

The migration script would do what?
...
Archive posts would actually be included in the new boards under the broad topic headings? Thus searches would reference relevant files from all posts going back to 1999?

That.

 

[Patrick]

While it is a noble effort to save the historical data, I will shed any tears if the achieves are lost. The cost to Marc and FTO is certainly not worth information that only a handful of users probably access. Then again, having all my personal trip reports, pictures, and historical season data dating back to 2000 saved on my own PC and my web page certainly makes me biased. Ski VT-L has a TON of first hand reports dating back well into the 90s if historical data is important (granted you will need to dig through tons of OT topics!). The full download of all the data is a super solution to meet the needs of a few dedicated history buffs. Just my opinion.

I'm not only thinking about myself (as I stated to Admin on or offline, not sure), but about others down the line. One of the reason I participate in ski forums, is for sharing information, gains knowledge from others and the common good. It might sound corny, but sharing informations makes this forum one of the best. I've seen some forum (which will remain nameless) which disregarded saving previous post way to easily. What is the used to answer a whole bunch of questions when the topic is eventually trashed and you have to reply the same thing over again. The great ski forums have amazing archives and the wealth of information is sometimes mind-boggling. FTO is one of those and that's why I do most of my writing here. As I was evaluating my crazy offer to help, I discovered an old TR on Skiing in Ireland....

http://216.250.243.13/discus2/messages/ ... ?978489461

How many times while someone post something like this???

For all the people that post, there are many more that just look and search for information. I know I do it elsewhere when I can't find it here. This can be seen with Zoneski new format, you can actually see which topic the different users (registered or not) are looking at. I was surprised at how so many old topic were being by non-registered member.

That.

WOW if you can make it happen.

Thanks again Marc for all your hardwork.

 

[Tony Crocker]

That Ireland heather sounds like the New Zealand tussocks at Coronet Peak. It can make off-piste skiing viable on 50cms or so where the subsurface is soft grass instead of rock and gravel.

I was spurred to go through the archives and construct the "History of Vermont Snow Conditions" spreadsheet last night, staring with the 1999-2000 season, the first of the FTO boards. I've been doing my own season progress reports since 1996-97, but only recording the percent of terrain open twice a month since 2003-04. Given the day-to-day variability of eastern conditions, the FTO reports are indispensable in constructing an accurate table.