****** Note to Ski Area Owners and Managers!!!!!!

skibum4ever

New member
************ If You Keep It Open They Will Come **************

I'm talking about ski areas, particularly in the West, only because I am not familiar with Eastern snow conditions.

I skied today at Keystone in the snow, about 6" new, mid-winter conditions. Two days ago I was at Aspen, mid-winter conditions, getting slushy only for the last 200 feet at the bottom, no bare spots. The day before that I was at Vail, about 6 inches of fresh powder, a wonderful day. I remember other springs where Vail was suggesting that people ride the gondola to the bottom because of the lack of coverage, the bare spots, and the heaviness of the slush in the last 1000 feet. Not like that this year; in fact, snow is predicted almost every day for the next week.

Yet all these area are closing on April 13. This is because Easter was so early this year, the earliest possible. Easter could be almost a month later, and in that case none of these major areas would be closing,
particularly with so much base.

I have met so many people on the slopes this past week, who mourn this early end to the ski season. Yes, I know A-Basin will still be open, and that Aspen Highlands will open some weekends later in the month. But that's not enough to draw in the tourists - you need Vail, Aspen, Keystone, Breck, Copper - at least two of these majors areas.

I ski at Mammoth and they make every effort to stay open as long as possible. Last year, in a poor snow year, they moved the snow around and created paths so they could remain open until Memorial weekend. No, they weren't making tons of money by doing this. Most of the snowriders were season pass holders. But they were rewarding their most loyal customers by giving them as much riding as possible. These riders were in turn shopping, eating in the cafeteria, eating out at night, and purchasing hard goods such as ski equipment and t-shirts. So Mammoth (read that as any ski town) staying open longer benefitted not just Mammoth and their reputation, but the hotel owners, shops, and restaurants.

This is an open letter to the ski area owners and managers of the major areas of Colorado. I'm sure many of you are discussing extending your season. Please, for the sake of your most loyal customers, consider staying open until the end of April, or later, weather conditions permitting.

(If you as a reader of this post agree with it and would like to post it on any other snow forum to which you belong, please feel free to copy it, change it, whatever, and post it elsewhere. Maybe we can get the word out that the season should not end this early with this much snow!)
 
You're preaching to the choir here.

November/December skiing is consistently overrated and April/May skiing is consistently underrated IMHO. But the average one-destination-trip-a-season vacationer thinks about skiing when it gets cold at home, and puts the gear away (in favor of his boat, golf, etc.) as soon it warms up.

There is NO market for fly-in destination skiers after the later of Easter/mid-April. Any viable ski area must have a local daytrip population base to support later skiing. Just read the lengthy and heated discussions about Killington on the Eastern boards. You would think that Denver could support at least one of the big areas in addition to Loveland/A-Basin, but maybe not.

I do think we have a different mindset here in SoCal because golf, surfing etc. are year-round sports here. So we're more likely to look at the skiing on its merits than based upon weather at home. Mammoth is probably the only late season area that thrives even on weekenders vs. daytrippers. Note the situation at Bachelor, which gave up on trying to draw the Portlanders away from the closer but far inferior Timberline in late spring.
 
As a visitor to the USA and coming from a country where many people will board in a large fridge for kicks year long I often wonder if we had resorts like here in CO whether they would go into the summer....

However, I think as a business, if there was money to be made then they would stay open. The fact they dont is a pretty good indication that money making is not possible. I've spoken to patrollers all over and they all concur that once it comes to March the golf clubs and bikes come out. Take Vail yesterday, deserted in relative terms...

Many resorts are I believe forced to close at a certain time due to the fact they are on forestry land?

I skied Keystone today as it happens.
 
Why don't season pass holders seem to count when assessing when and whether to stay open late in the season? Or do they? Obviously, some places are more aggressive then others - depends on the market etc. - about staying open late. Some places, based on permits, don't have the flexibility, right?
 
Some places have forest service permit issues, but for the vast majority it's pure economics.

q should be well equipped to discuss this issue because several resorts in the Alps have glaciers and are open for summer skiing. Some trams that serve the higher peaks tend to be open anyway for summer sightseers. So maybe it doesn't cost that much to run a couple of surface lifts for the small fraction of summer visitors that might want to make a few turns.

The more nuanced question is whether these areas scale down gradually as they lose snow at lower and mid elevations. Or is there a sharp cutback in mid-April for the same economic reasons as here? It's possible that Euro ski culture is different. A lot of them are sun worshippers, so maybe they like skiing in April/May more than Americans.
 
Actually, I'm impressed by all the small Quebec hills that are still going. (see Eastern closing day thread).

Bottom line isn't everything everywhere, unless you run Stoneham and Ste-Anne. :roll:
 
SoCal Rider":2mgf07he said:
Why don't season pass holders seem to count when assessing when and whether to stay open late in the season? Or do they? Obviously, some places are more aggressive then others - depends on the market etc. - about staying open late. Some places, based on permits, don't have the flexibility, right?

Season pass holders count, but not this late in the season...my pass paid for itself almost 2 times over at this point.

The skiing that can be had april/may does not draw enough tourists.....no money...no lifts run.

M
 
Season pass holders in general expect basically the equivalent of last years dates of opening more or less. Thus, the huge outcry about KMart back east.

I wondered for a long time why Vail, etc.. didn't do a more phased closing as the visits tail off vs fully open then fully closed, but it makes very good business sense when you think about it. Lets say Vail opens only 4 or 5 lifts starting next week. Who is going to come? Pass holders? Destination tourists? Front Range ticket buyers? Almost exclusively only the first one, and with only a couple of lifts, not all that many of them.

Nearly all destination folks want the whole mtn to be open to justify the flights and costs - not a small slice (Patrick excluded :lol: ). And front rangers that buy tickets are no where near hard core enough to even consider skiing in late April. So a few burgers from pass holders would be about the only incremental income. Plus they would likely have to discount the ticket price heavily in an attempt to bring in even a handful of ticket buyers. Discounting the Vail brand that way (or resort x brand) is not something to be taken lightly in any business. Especially if your business is not flat out failing. Not to mention gaining the downtime for maint and new construction. (side note: the Epic pass is expensive enough at $579 to not exactly make a destination tourist think Vail is a cheap place).

Thus it is more of the mom&pop places that will consider the phased closing. They are typically small, bottom of the food chain (branding wise) places with difficult finances. With a small handful of exceptions like Snowbird, Mammoth and A-Basin who have very good snow conditions late (not just "come ski our remaining piles of heavy slush and/or ice"), and large population centers nearby (or willing to drive excessive distances - gotta love CA).
 
Keystone was fantastic today. They closed North Peak and Ouback for a while due to lightning concerns, then reopened them. We were among the first to reach the Outback. Beautiful untracked snow for at least 3 or 4 runs until a few more people caught on. Then into the trees for some more freshies. Seemed like about 6-8", maybe more in the trees. Keystone has better coverage today than they did at any other time this winter. :roll:
 
I think that maybe econimic concerns are closing some places down early. I know that many colorado mountians are on state and fed lands and are required to shut down for elk migration etc (ie steamboat). Colorado seems to be more guided by enviromentalists then any of the states. Hence no winter olympics ever. I remember keysone and breck open till late april or may and vail closing around the 25th. Also Winter park(mary jayne) has been open till mid may, they are closing soon with no mention if Mary Jane will stay open. Strange
 
Another advantage Mammoth has (also Bachelor, though Powdr chooses to ignore this) is that a large percentage of terrain is accessible from just a few lifts. Close to 2,000 acres at Mammoth are skiable with just chairs 1,2,3 and the gondola. Cut chair 2 out and it's still 1,500. Snowbird gets much less spring business due to its powder-spoiled locals, but look how much terrain is accessible from just the tram. If Vail cuts lift operations, terrain closures would be more proportional.
 
they are closing on Sunday

As is nearly everyone....

But in Colo you do have:

Breck for one more week (4/20)
Loveland for almost a month (5/4)
A-Basin for 2 months (mid-June)

and mid-week from here on out has got to be deserted at any of them.
 
Ours hills - save Baldy - may not impress serious snowplayers, but at least they generally stay open until their grisly, muddy deaths. It should reach mid-60s, maybe 70, on Saturday but Baldy and Snow Summit are trying for one more weekend (unless they say otherwise this afternoon).
 
Snow Summit has about 70% of trails open according to the website. I've never been there late season because there are a lot of flat spots that rate to be very sticky in warm weather.

Baldy has excellent terrain for late season, but March 22 was the good late season day there for me this year. It will be just a handful of runs this weekend. In the big years Thunder still has wall-to-wall skiing in mid-April.

It's usually hard to get excited about limited SoCal skiing when Mammoth is in its full operation prime spring season.
 
EMSC":37mjqvj1 said:
they are closing on Sunday

As is nearly everyone....

But in Colo you do have:

Breck for one more week (4/20)
Loveland for almost a month (5/4)
A-Basin for 2 months (mid-June)

and mid-week from here on out has got to be deserted at any of them.


We are currently back in southern California taking care of some business, but we will be back out to CO next Thurs. We intend to ski:

Breck - Friday

Aspen Highlands - Saturday and Sunday

A-Basin until we get tired of it. I hope Montezuma Bowl will remain open for a while.

Then we get to come back home and ski Mammoth until it closes. So I guess I can't complain too much. :P
 
Tony,

I was at Baldy last Sunday and the riding was pretty darn good. I only had trouble on the beginner run en route to Thunder. I am probably going first thing tomorrow morning, as I have super cheap passes that expire at season's end. If it's bad, I'll just go hiking.

It's not easy for me to get away as far as Mammoth, but I am shooting to do that next month.
 
skibum4ever":vr0u088f said:
13" of fresh powder at Vail this morning and they are closing on Sunday!! :( :o :shock: :evil:

i have friends that live in vail and they don't mind one bit. as soon as the resort closes they get to enjoy thousands of acres of late season pow/corn all to themselves via skins, a packed lunch and a bottle of wine. the resorts that have closed out here have been skiing fabulously for those that like to walk and ski in peace.
rog
 
skibum4ever":1tugpek6 said:
q, did I meet you yesterday at about 4:30 in Silver Mill? We spoke of your Volants and of other things.

No, was'nt me although I'd no doubt have seen you around the Outback area. I wear a red lightweight jacket and ski a Dynastar Legend 4800 with opaque orange Rossi boots. Either that or I propped up the bar in the place beside the Stube for an hour or so at lunchtime!

To get back to some of the points made earlier. Again, it comes back to business. As a business I don't care whether you ski 100 days or 10 days on your season ticket so they won't consider a pass holder in whether to extend a season. Typically season pass holders do not bring in much revenue each time they ski as it is typically the vacationer that will eat on the hill, buy the T-shirts etc.

In terms of glacier skiing in Europe my understanding is that the winter resort closes just as they do in the USA(albeit some maybe keep running a bit longer) and the resort reopens for glacier skiing weeks later. Tignes for example closes in early May, reopens for glacier riding late June to early September and reopens again mid November for normal skiing although in Europe it is more typical that they do not open much of the terrain until Christmas regardless of conditions when low and behold the tourists arrive to make it worthwhile.

It all comes down to money :lol:
 
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