Off-roading Mary Ellen Gulch (soon to be Snowbird) UT 9/14

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Mrs. Admin and I had hopes of camping up in Mary Ellen Gulch behind Snowbird this weekend. When the weather refused to cooperate we took advantage of a window of dry weather this afternoon to head up there on a recon mission instead.

Bobby Danger calls Mary Ellen Gulch "Futurebird" because of Snowbird's plans to put a lift in there. It's one drainage immediately to the west of Mineral Basin, and is accessed in summer via American Fork Canyon. AF Canyon is paved as far east as Tibble Fork Reservoir, and is a dirt Forest Service road (number 085) beyond there. Several miles up 085 the Mary Ellen Gulch Trail (FR-111) branches off and heads north.

FR-111 was at one time a road to access the mines in Mary Ellen Gulch, including the Yankee, Silver Bell and Globe Mines. Today it's a jeep/ATV trail that quite frankly is about as tough rock hopping as I really care to do in my truck. The Taco performed admirably, but there were a couple of tricky spots -- including a washout across the road, loose rock next to severe dropoffs, and bouldering up rock ledges that my skill level was barely up to snuff for.

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Loose rubble on the Mary Ellen Gulch trail

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This is a road?

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Steeper than it looks.

We were rewarded, however, for reaching the end of the navigable road at 9,000 feet with the splendor of an alpine cirque in which to have lunch. Several folks who arrived at our lunch spot on ATVs -- the only people we'd see on the trail all afternoon -- commented on how tough it was even on their vehicles.

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At our lunch stop, at timberline at 9,000 feet.

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Upper Mary Ellen Gulch. The ridgeline at photo right center middleground is the backside of the Sunday Cliffs in Mineral Basin at Snowbird.

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The Yankee Mines. The ridgeline in the background is the south side of 11,483-foot West Twin of American Fork Twin Peaks.

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The Globe Mines

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The Globe Mines

I would've loved to have acquiesced to Mrs. Admin's pleading to climb up to the mines, especially as I heard that there's an old grave marker for one of the miners next to one of the buildings still standing, but I wanted to be out of there before the weather turned.

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Looking back down Mary Ellen Gulch as the weather says that it's time to leave.

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Arriving back in American Fork Canyon

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Lower Mineral Basin

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Upper American Fork Canyon

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Mary Ellen Gulch (left) and Mineral Basin

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Mineral Basin from the Baker Fork Trail. The lifts on the ridgeline are Snowbird's (L to R) Little Cloud, Mineral Basin Express and the Aerial Tram.

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American Fork Twin Peaks and Mary Ellen Gulch from the Baker Pass Trail

Sure enough, right after we ascended Baker Fork and topped out at 8,939-foot Pole Line Pass the skies unleashed. It was slow going on the slippery dirt roads all the way to Midway via Snake Creek behind Alta, and for the first time since I bought the truck in March I actually had the wipers on high.
 
Just found this video online which gives you a better idea of what the "road" is like than my still photos can:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaZkZLAYWr0[/youtube]

Keep in mind that unlike these guys, my truck is stock.
 
Tony Crocker":wrz4rz01 said:
I guess the modest 10-inch high clearance of my air suspension isn't quite enough for that road!
Going beyond where Marc stopped generally requires 35's or better and at least a rear locker. The road becomes impassable at 10,200' (assuming you value your life).
 
Today was spent cleaning and repairing the truck.

1. When trying to gun it around a blind curve through a mud puddle be sure that there are no overhanging branches around the corner that are there to reach out and snag your newly installed $350 roof rack. :oops: I thought that the damage was limited to two of Yakima's Landing Pad mounts that are bolted through the roof of the camper shell, no big deal at $35 a pair. In addition, however, I partially fractured the structural metal on one of their Control Towers, which come in packs of 4 for $229. I've got to call them this week to see if I can buy just one before we hit the White Rim in early November, as I'll be carrying water and spare fuel up there in a gear basket. The torque actually bent two of the 10-32 stainless mounting screws nearly 90 degrees (they're two per rack foot), and crushed the fiberglass beneath two of the landing pads by up to half an inch.

2. I of course acquired the usual scratches from brush on a narrow trail, but one was particularly nasty and looked like someone keyed the entire length of the passenger side. It fortunately went no deeper than the clear coat. That required washing, wet sanding, rubbing compound, polishing compound, washing again, and re-waxing. It sure looks great now, though, as I managed to remove some pre-existing scratches at the same time.

Throw in the usual interior vacumming/wiping down, etc., and it was pretty much an all-day job.
 
Tony Crocker":2v5svtds said:
I guess the modest 10-inch high clearance of my air suspension isn't quite enough for that road!

Tony, I've seen your friends' SUV get buried (more than once) in beach sand that I got my Ford Taurus through. :lol:
 
Admin":zmbue4a1 said:
Today was spent cleaning and repairing the truck.

1. When trying to gun it around a blind curve through a mud puddle be sure that there are no overhanging branches around the corner that are there to reach out and snag your newly installed $350 roof rack. :oops: I thought that the damage was limited to two of Yakima's Landing Pad mounts that are bolted through the roof of the camper shell, no big deal at $35 a pair. In addition, however, I partially fractured the structural metal on one of their Control Towers, which come in packs of 4 for $229. I've got to call them this week to see if I can buy just one before we hit the White Rim in early November, as I'll be carrying water and spare fuel up there in a gear basket. The torque actually bent two of the 10-32 stanless mounting screws nearly 90 degrees, and crushed the fiberglass beneath two of the landing pads by up to half an inch.
Impressive. That must have been either a big branch or a lot of speed. That's the one thing that still has me on the fence about mounting a racj to my fiberglass hard-top vs an expedition frame mounted to the A-pillars and rear bumper on my JK.

Admin":zmbue4a1 said:
2. I of course acquired the usual scratches from brush on a narrow trail, but one was particularly nasty and looked like someone keyed the entire length of the passenger side. It fortunately went no deeper than the clear coat. That required washing, wet sanding, rubbing compound, polishing compound, washing again, and re-waxing. It sure looks great now, though, as I managed to remove some pre-existing scratches at the same time.
Um, 4x4 wheeling does kind of require a certain amount of disregard for vehicle body damage.
BTW, I know someone who broke one of their CV joints on that same trail you were on.
 
Marc_C":1p41gkp2 said:
Impressive. That must have been either a big branch or a lot of speed.

Big branch. I couldn't have been doing more than 5 mph.

Marc_C":1p41gkp2 said:
That's the one thing that still has me on the fence about mounting a racj to my fiberglass hard-top vs an expedition frame mounted to the A-pillars and rear bumper on my JK.

Honestly, as firmly mounted as that thing was I'm glad that it wasn't even more solid, otherwise the damage would've been worse. That might be a factor for you to consider. It's good to have something that you know or suspect will give.

Marc_C":1p41gkp2 said:
BTW, I know someone who broke one of their CV joints on that same trail you were on.

I can believe it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2
 
When you first posted this, I wondered if you could have made it through some of the areas in your pictures without damage under your truck. I know I would not attempt it in my SUV that does not have low-range and has some very expensive a and unprotected aluminum cases under the engine, transmission and rear end. I did recently take a rental car over a mile down an unpaved road on the island of Hawaii trying to get close to a temple on the North Shore. It was a good thing I stopped where I did and walked the rest of the way because we passed a couple of puddles that went most of the way across the road and were littered with car parts, mostly plastic spoilers.
 
tseeb":14crut7d said:
When you first posted this, I wondered if you could have made it through some of the areas in your pictures without damage under your truck. I know I would not attempt it in my SUV that does not have low-range and has some very expensive a and unprotected aluminum cases under the engine, transmission and rear end.
Skid plates are *meant* to be used!
 
tseeb":1vyah2bz said:
When you first posted this, I wondered if you could have made it through some of the areas in your pictures without damage under your truck.

a) Reasonable ground clearance;
b) Careful wheel placement when picking a line; and
c) Skid plates.
 
I declined the $1,000 skid plate option, but I doubt I will take on anything more sketchy than Shafer Trail in Canyonlands.
 
Tony Crocker":1t1phcr4 said:
I declined the $1,000 skid plate option

One word: "aftermarket." A mega-buck for a skid plate is insanity.

Tony Crocker":1t1phcr4 said:
but I doubt I will take on anything more sketchy than Shafer Trail in Canyonlands.

And that's a different story. For that you'd also need to ditch the highway tires and get that thing more than 10" off the ground.
 
Admin":uza61vjq said:
Tony Crocker":uza61vjq said:
I declined the $1,000 skid plate option

One word: "aftermarket." A mega-buck for a skid plate is insanity.
That would depend on exactly what that kilobuck option includes. Even if it's just a single plate $1K may not be excessive if it covers multiple tender components. My JK Rubi has stock gas and transfer case skids. I'm adding an engine evaporator (aka carbon canister, as it was once called) skid, armored front differential cover/skid and rear diff skid, front suspension and electric swaybar disco skid, and probably oil pan. Doubt I'll go for steering box and lower control arm skids. What I just outlined comes close to $1K even using aftermarket components. Also some of those I either cannot or do not want to install myself.


Admin":uza61vjq said:
Tony Crocker":uza61vjq said:
but I doubt I will take on anything more sketchy than Shafer Trail in Canyonlands.

And that's a different story. For that you'd also need to ditch the highway tires and get that thing more than 10" off the ground.
And the tires should be LT or off-road rated - those trails will tear up regular passenger tires. Not knowing what kind of vehicle we're discussing, the Shafer, especially if going down, also does require real 4x4 and not AWD due to the unrelenting steepness. You need the gearing of 4x4 Lo for engine compression braking to keep your brakes from burning up and becoming useless. That happened to one unfortunate person back in the 60's. RIP.

Don't sell the "easy" Shafer Trail short. Depending on rains, run-off, and the last time it was graded, it can hold some surprises and bite you, despite the NPS keeping it in generally decent condition. For example, over in the Maze district, the Flint Trail at one time was notorious. I did it in the mid-90's after much improvement and didn't think it much more difficult than the Shafer. Right now however, while the Flint is still passable, due to recent biblical rains there, the NPS is recommending chains and both front and rear lockers.
 
The Cayenne has differential locking options, including a full lockup admin told me to use for sand at Lake Powell. The transmission is 8 speed, so first is really low. For off-road downhills there's a variant of cruise control that holds one's speed without the driver applying the brakes, in the case of Shafer I usually had it between 6-8 mph. While there was no recent rain/runoff I drove very conservatively (close to 2 hours) as it was my first time on that kind of road. I'm not planning to modify the car, so I won't be looking for anything beyond Shafer in good weather.
 
Tony Crocker":3l2f9s9h said:
For off-road downhills there's a variant of cruise control that holds one's speed without the driver applying the brakes

Or the gas, if it's similar to a feature in my dearly departed Land Rover (RIP).

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2
 
Even though they sold a lot of 2003-2008 Honda Pilots, I have not found anyone making skid plates except for one that mounts below bull bar and does not protect anything. But without low range and having exhaust hanging below frame plus being wide and not having very good rear departure angle, they are made for streets and highways, snow-covered roads and smooth dirt roads, not off-roading. There are a couple of aftermarket skid plates available for 2009 and later Pilots, but they require removal to do some routine maintenance and one only includes installation instructions in Russian.

Since there are fewer Cayennes sold, it may be hard to find anything other than high-priced Porsche OEM skidplate. The downhill speed control must use your brakes which means there is a possibility of over-heating brakes without knowing it since you are not controlling them. My year Pilot does not have traction control which uses brakes to prevent wheelspin, In heavy slush or mud if not implemented well traction control can make your brakes come on so much to take away most of your power.

Picking a good line and knowing your limitations is probably more important in off-roading than skiing if you want to return without damage.
 
tseeb":30vzuuss said:
Even though they sold a lot of 2003-2008 Honda Pilots, I have not found anyone making skid plates except for one that mounts below bull bar and does not protect anything. But without low range and having exhaust hanging below frame plus being wide and not having very good rear departure angle, they are made for streets and highways, snow-covered roads and smooth dirt roads, not off-roading. There are a couple of aftermarket skid plates available for 2009 and later Pilots, but they require removal to do some routine maintenance and one only includes installation instructions in Russian.

Since there are fewer Cayennes sold, it may be hard to find anything other than high-priced Porsche OEM skidplate. The downhill speed control must use your brakes which means there is a possibility of over-heating brakes without knowing it since you are not controlling them. My year Pilot does not have traction control which uses brakes to prevent wheelspin, In heavy slush or mud if not implemented well traction control can make your brakes come on so much to take away most of your power.

Honda Pilot? Porsche Cayenne????
I thought we were talking about real 4x4's, not mall runners.


tseeb":30vzuuss said:
Picking a good line and knowing your limitations is probably more important in off-roading than skiing if you want to return without damage.
Exactly. I've seen Subaru Outbacks in some very unlikely spots and I've seen videos of idiots rolling Rubicons due to poor driving or clueless spotting.
 
Bobby Danger":1jwgmp7h said:
time will tell which of the catagories you fall into , in your second statement ...
Momentum can be your friend, as can bouncing up obstacles.....until you give it too much gas and go into an uncontrolled bounce.
The notorious Potato Salad Hill claims yet another:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZKO9NeBhHg[/youtube]
 
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