Off-topic: Utah car camping question

[Evren]

I will be doing the rounds in Southern Utah soon and I know people here are knowledgeable about the area. So I have a few questions.

The emphasis will be on scenic drives and day hikes. I've been to many of these places at least once so the idea is to add a few I haven't while my friend sees them all for the first time. It will be an ambitious itinerary:

Arches / Canyonlands / Monument Valley / Hwy95 / Hwy 12-24 / Capitol Reef / Bryce / Kodachrome / Cottonwood Canyon / Antelope Canyon / North Rim / Coral Dunes / Zion / Vegas, baby!

First, is there a place that you would add to this list? A slot canyon less crowded than Antelope? Does Northern AZ around Page have the look-and-feel of Monument Valley (meaning, can I drop MV from the list)?

Second, we will stay at motels/hotels when convenient but to lessen the logistical challenge of finding/reaching one after a long day... I was thinking to put a comforter and pillows in the back of my Outback (with the seats down) and sleep in the car every other night. Is this a reasonable idea? What are the types of places where it makes sense to safely do this with a woman? Campgrounds? Side of a county road? inside NPs?

If you have done this before, what is the one thing you wish or were glad you had brought along?

 

[Marc_C]

It will be an ambitious itinerary:

Arches / Canyonlands / Monument Valley / Hwy95 / Hwy 12-24 / Capitol Reef / Bryce / Kodachrome / Cottonwood Canyon / Antelope Canyon / North Rim / Coral Dunes / Zion / Vegas, baby!

That's a good itinerary for 6-8 weeks or longer. For any amount of time less than that, you'll be doing more driving than seeing. You'll also miss a ton of great stuff. So first, how long? And what time of year? Much of that is crazy to do in the summer.

...while my friend sees them all for the first time.

That is an overwhelming itinerary for a first-timer - I'd cut in half, at absolute minimum. Zion alone is good for 4 days. Arches and Canyonlands is easily a week or more. Which district of Canyonlands - they all have something spectacular. Don't forget the Horseshoe Canyon unit of Canyonlands - one of the most spectacular pictograph panels in the entire southwest. That's also a full day (and undoable in the summer for any mammals one other than mad dogs).

Get your reservations in early for Antelope. It's in Navajo Nation and requires a guide. Same for the tours of Monument Valley - you just can't wander/drive anywhere you want.

Does Northern AZ around Page have the look-and-feel of Monument Valley (meaning, can I drop MV from the list)?

No and no. Page is flat and desolate.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I was in a similar situation as first time visitor to some of these places in 2011 and 2012. First with Richard (very easy hiking) in April 2011:
One afternoon in Arches
One full day in north/central Canyonlands. An hour hiking, about 3 hours driving my then-new SUV on rough roads, notably the Shafer trail.
Morning South Canyonlands with an hour hike, afternoon stop Natural Bridges, 1+ hour before sunset Monument Valley
I spent 4 morning hours hiking halfway down the Kaibab trail in the Grand Canyon, then Richard and I drove home

May 2011 with Liz (much more adventurous):
One afternoon in Bryce
Full day in Egypt3 slot canyon, details in link below
Half a day in Zion with a couple of ~1 hour hikes

May 2012 with Liz:
1+ hour walk up Zion Narrows, our time there was limited by a flat tire in Vegas
Antelope Canyon Tour, the annular eclipse with admin & company at Lake Powell
All day hike to the Wave, illicitly guided by someone who had been there before. There are other interesting and legal hikes in that area but the weather is quite hot by this time of year.
An easy day, touring Glen Canyon Dam and the boat ride out to Rainbow Bridge.
All day hike in Echo Canyon (part trail, part slot)

As MarcC said, you're not going to see everything in one trip. Do some research, pick and choose. Alternate the more rigorous days with easier, more "touristy" ones. It's already hot by now. Hikes need to be mostly at altitude (Bryce, North Rim) or in shaded canyons. Arches/Canyonlands were comfortable in mid-April; I suspect not so much now.

With regard to slot canyons, Antelope is guided and usually very busy. Nonetheless the impressive color effects midday make the tour worthwhile with a knowledgeable guide: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10243

For the more wilderness experience check out these reports from 2011:
Admin in the San Rafael Swell: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9694
Liz and me in Escalante: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9700

We found this guide very useful: http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/index.htm
Read the ratings section carefully and choose something within your capabilities. Liz and I were first timers, both with some fear of exposure and nearly zero rock climbing experience. Egypt3 was near the limit of what we should have attempted, and admin's advice was sound on all counts. I can also say (as one who has had a few solitary and perhaps foolhardy adventures like San Gorgonio 5/24/11) that you do not want to be in the slots by yourself. Two heads are better than one for decision making, and there are a few situations where getting past obstacles is facilitated by teamwork.

 

[Evren]

Thanks for the suggestions. I am aware of the distances involved. But this is not a weekender. It will be an improvised longish trip. We might even do part, come up North to cool down, then go back down again. Plus, the novelty of "red rock" wears off after a few days, so it's not as awe-inspiring to do one after the other.

But yes, the inclination is to plan too many places in one day, making you harried. I've done that before.

Tony, I forgot about the dams. Of course, I'd love to see me some big-ass turbines.

Any thoughts on the sleeping in the car every other night idea? Especially from fellow Outback owners -- wouldn't do it in a sedan. I just want to avoid getting locked into a definite location for each evening, some time in advance. I've always felt very safe in Utah but I will be responsible for another soul. What type of location would be away from prying eyes?

 

[Admin]

You can camp almost anywhere on BLM land with few restrictions, although the Moab area is an exception. Research and know the local rules. I've never been concerned about safety.

+1 Marc_C's comments about Page. It's no Monument Valley.

As for slots I strongly recommend Ding and Dang Canyons west of Goblin Valley. See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9694 - unlike many (most?) slots it's non-technical but I wouldn't do it much beyond now until fall. It may not have the spectacular strata of Antelope but unlike Antelope you won't be surrounded by tour buses. In fact you may be the only ones there. Reference "Non-Technical Canyon Guide -- Colorado Plateau" by Michael Kelsey for more info and for a plethora of other ideas.

As for the red rock sensation wearing off, I respectfully disagree. Over time I've developed a deep affinity for the Southwest desert. Spend a week kayaking the Green River through Canyonlands and you'll understand. See http://www.firsttracksonline.com/2011/1 ... ls-paddle/

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[Tony Crocker]

As for slots I strongly recommend Ding and Dang Canyons west of Goblin Valley. Search for my post here - unlike many (most?) slots it's non-technical but I wouldn't do it much beyond now until fall. It may not have the spectacular strata of Antelope but unlike Antelope you won't be surrounded by tour buses. In fact you may be the only ones there.

The Ding and Dang canyon hike IS admin's TR I referred to in my first post. For the 9 hours we were in and around Egypt3 Liz and I were the only ones there. Escalante, like the San Rafael Swell, is going to be toasty until fall.

The Zion slots we did in 2012 would be more suitable in hot weather. Approaches were mostly in the shade. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10241
I'm sure we have barely scratched the surface of canyon hikes. Go through http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/index.htm or some other guide in detail, find something that's appropriate for your ability and the time of year you will be there.

come up North to cool down

Bryce and North Rim at ~8,000 feet are definitely high enough to cool down.

 

[Marc_C]

As for the red rock sensation wearing off, I respectfully disagree. Over time I've developed a deep affinity for the Southwest desert.

+1
In my 13 years here so far I've never tired of red rock canyon country. Never found it to be a novelty and it never fails to be awe-inspiring. Prior to moving here we took 4 multi-week trips from Connecticut expressly for spending time on the Colorado Plateau. Cumulatively we've spent weeks just in Canyonlands NP and Zion NP. If you haven't done the Angel's Landing, Observation Point, and Narrows hikes, you really haven't seen Zion at all.

 

[Marc_C]

Bryce and North Rim at ~8,000 feet are definitely high enough to cool down.

Not really in July-August, except for the nights.

 

[Evren]

If you haven't done the Angel's Landing

I've gone up to the ridge, then turned around. Despite being with a girlfriend who had done it herself (and the loss of hand associated with that).

This was because of how nonchalant others around me seemed to be. I am one of those people who can handle being next to the cliff but get butterflies when I see someone else there.

As it turns out someone fell 1000 feet to her death just 30 minutes later.

 

[EMSC]

While I haven't done a lot of your proposed itinerary, I've done a couple...

Depends on your tastes (mtn hikes vs slots, etc...), but Zion is spectacular IMHO; several days should be spent there - the narrows are obvious highlight, I did 'hidden canyon' (I think that's the name) for a day hike one day.

I would skip Bryce as it is way too crowded for what it is IMO. You can get a very similar experience with hoodoos and red rock by walking or MTB'ing in Red Canyon ~15 miles west of Bryce on Rte 12. There is a formal FS campground and also a FS visitor office down the road to give you hiking tips. I MTB'd a remote trail through the heart of Red Canyon back a few years and saw only 2 other people the whole time compared to the big crowds at Bryce.

 

[Evren]

I would skip Bryce as it is way too crowded for what it is IMO

Wow, that's quite a statement! On two occasions, I barely made it to Bryce for sunset, one of them spectacular (recent snow, wet rock for those deeper hues). I kinda sorta want to do at least one hike there this time.

But will look into Red Canyon, definitely. Hearing about it for the first time.

 

[Admin]

I concur 100% with EMSC.

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[Marc_C]

I would skip Bryce as it is way too crowded for what it is IMO

Wow, that's quite a statement! On two occasions, I barely made it to Bryce for sunset, one of them spectacular (recent snow, wet rock for those deeper hues). I kinda sorta want to do at least one hike there this time.

And...

I concur 100% with EMSC.

Neither of those guys know what they're talking about. There's a reason it's a national park. Things to remember about Bryce and how to improve the experience:

1. Like all National Parks, Bryce is the most crowded when school is out, thus the summer plus a bit on either side. Don't go during the highest visitation rates. I've hiked in the hoodoos in the main part of the canyon (ie: *the* most popular spot) and encountered no more than a dozen people. It was the week before Thanksgiving. I encountered more people on my Zion Narrows hike in mid September (the only time the water is warm enough and low enough for me!).

2. Likewise, mid-morning to mid-afternoon will be the most crowded as well. Get out early or take a later hike (to anything other than something named Sunset Point/View/etc). Besides, the light for photography is best then anyway. If you must go in summer, do a moonlight hike instead. In June you'll have usable light till 9:30 - 10:00 anyway.

3. Most visitors stick to the roads and the short walks that are very near the car since most are either typically American lazy or making the mistake of having a 25 destination itinerary in 14 days. Get off the beaten track!

3. Bryce is much bigger than most think. But the area of dense hoodoo concentration is admittedly small-ish and thus sees 90% of the visitation. Kinda like Yosemite, where 90% of the visitors in the summer cram into the 5.9 sq mile valley, mostly ignoring the other 1160 sq miles. Go explore!