Out-of-bounds slide at The Canyons, 15 feared caught

Chromer

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http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6827473/

?Huge? avalanche at Utah ski resort
Rescue crews search for up to 15 who may be trapped
BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC
Updated: 4:35 p.m. ET Jan. 14, 2005

PARK CITY, Utah - An avalanche crashed down a 300-yard-wide swath of mountain near a ski slope at the popular Canyons resort on Friday, trapping as many as 15 skiers under snow, according to local reports. Rescue teams and dogs were searching for the skiers, who were in an area off-limits to them.

Employees of the resort, which became famous during the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City, told NBC affiliate KSL-TV that the avalanche occurred near the top of a ski lift that provides access to an expert area known as Dutch Draw.

KSL radio reporter Jill Atwood, who was visiting the resort, described the avalanche as ?huge,? measuring 300 to 500 yards in width. ?It looked like someone took a knife and sliced off the mountain,? she told MSNBC-TV, adding that the slide took place in an out-of-bounds area where expert skiers were known to ski at their own risk.

Rescue crews were setting off charges to stabilize the rest of the area, KSL reported. At least two medical helicopters were flown to a command post at the scene.
 
After these initial reports, it's now estimated that 1 to 3 were caught. It's in Dutch's Draw, just to climber's left of the Ninety-Nine-Ninety lift. I'm watching live streaming video coverage right now from KUTV in SLC.
 
At a press conference the sheriff just gave, he said that he's "willing to say that there are at least 2" victims, and that the avi debris at the toe of the slide is up to 30 feet deep. The fracture line is 16 feet deep, and per the sheriff is 400-500 yards wide.
 
Does anyone know what the actual circumstances of this slide were? I've been trying to find out if they were strung out along the area below the cornice, or were bunched up going down the slope. Also, how far out from the entrance off of Ninety-Nine-Ninety were they? I can remember skiing down that back bowl back inbounds from where you climb up, but I have not gone far out on the ledge.
 
Basically the snowboarder that was buried and killed triggered the slide himself. Sounds like he was going down a ridge that on the edge of the bowl that slid. He ventured slightly into the bowl and it ripped. There is a very detailed account and video at theTGR Forums. It's about the best account so far.
 
Interesting story from the interview. I notice that the avalance was triggered above them, even though they were going down a ridge line. So even though they nixed going straight into the bowl from where they were, they were actually in a bowl at the time! Avalanches can trigger from above and below a traverse line; I would still like to see a topographical representation of where they were. Avy courses are definitely worth taking (as 2 of the 5 apparently had); there are a tremendous number of variables at play in this kind of structural loading...like a house of cards. I don't know if an avalung would have helped since he was probably crushed, pushing the air out of him and dying from asphyxiation. Still you have to have a pieps and shovel no matter what.
 
I just wrote a nice post, and added a picture from Jan. 20th- 6 days after the slide-- but it was thrown into cyberspace 'cause my photo file was too big- even tho I'd shrunken it down to 3 snowflakes in the center of the slide.
It was huge and scary to look at--
but what was scary and puzzling to me was the location of the *out-of-bounds* slide area easily accessible thru a gate at the top of 9990 lift. it was just a short traverse and climb to the top of the ridge, and from there you simply ski down the bowl and back to the same lift!
So it's CALLED out of bounds, but isn't really, not from the skiers perspective.
From the patrollers view, it's all in an area that they don't touch, blast, or patrol. This must be a resort management decision, since it makes no sense at all. If the area had been controlled all season, the slide would've been smaller, with possibility of survival.
But it was huge, with a 15 ft high fracture, and nasty-looking furrows in the runout zone-- it must've been undiggable hard plaster.
I wonder what ASC (American Skiing company, the owner of the Canyons) has to say.

Yeah, you could say the guy was an idiot for skiing thru a gate with skull and cross-bones, and "YOU CAN DIE" plastered on it.
But it's hard to imagine most 19-year olds, even one with an avie class under his belt, to say "no, I'm scared, even though theres lots of tracks already, and nothings slid, and the powder looks absolutely awesome, I'd still rather ski the tracked up stuff inbounds"


Most out-of-bounds areas have a high hurdle--- a long hike, obscure runout requiring local knowledge, etc. This was too easy.

I don't like having to wait for the patrol to blast before they drop a rope, at the top, wondering if I should ski a run and risk missing out. (now there's a risk!) It's really scary to think how tempted I might have been to ski that, too.
 
An interesting take on the situation (wish I could see your photo!). I've skiied down that way several times when at Canyons (although not all the way round the far side of the ridge). Your comment on the fact that it is essentially lift-serviced is telling. There is more and more of this going on (even used as a marketing tool). I don't think that this is necessarily bad. There is no way to completely eliminate avalanche danger outside the boundary ropes (it's plenty of work within the ropes). Risk-assessment is something that Americans seem to be pretty weak on (anyone checked out our Iraq policy lately?).

I agree that it would have been pretty hard to withstand the temptation, especially seeing other folks in the bowl.

My approach has always been that after big dumps, take the most conservative approach, ask a patroller/guide, and live to ski another day.
 
There has been a lot of talk about the gate and the lift placement in regards to it. That seems to be the biggest problem with this gate is the proximity to the lift. There is not much of a hike to deter people from going up there, and chairlift riders can see people out on the ridge and that bowl. Lot's of temptation there. I guess in the planning stages several people stated fears about having the gate an the chairlift top so close together. They suggested that the chairlift end several hundred feet earlier to help discourage people from going out. Went on deaf ears. This not to say that ease of backcountry access will get people to use it. Steamboat and Aspen Highlands both have backcountry access points that are easy to access right off of trails that see plenty of traffic. But none of these spots have the lure of a nice bowl that is easily visible from the entrance point or a chairlift.
 
The lift is too close to the out-of-bounds gate. Too bad.

Of cource nobody in America takes any responsibillity for their actions.

I really refuse to hear that it is American Ski Co.'s fault for any of this.

In Telluride --- the backside of the mountain is VERY easy to access - from lifts 9, 6 and 14. Beautiful powdery bowls which turn into near vertical chutes or cliff bands. People trigger avalanches and get themsleves killed falling over the the cliffs. Dug out/thawed out in the spring. People die in the Bear Creek drainage all the time.

Should Telluride not exist becuase one mountain face probably could kill you?


Too bad beacons are not more affordable to the males 20-35 who typically killl themselves in avalanches.

Resorts with some really good policies: Sunshine, Alberta and Bridger Bowl, Montana -- the backcountry gates do not open unless you have an avalanche beacon.
.
 
OK. i was gonna wait awhile to comment, but i can't hold out anymore. here we go:

Risk-assessment is something that Americans seem to be pretty weak on.......

great point, and this is one point that lots of bc users see the need for
more of it being involved in "basic" avi courses. decision making
:!: something we all seem to have a problem with when we see a
fresh powder field or a sweet line from a chair.......and especially if it
takes minimal effort to access. i remember seeing some sweet lines at
JH, but i knew there wasn't enough coverage and didn't know the terrain
all that well, so i opted to skip it. i knew my limits that day and saw that i
could easily get in over my head at JH, but didn't have even a basic
knowledge about the terrain i was googling at. knowing your limits is
important. good thing i wasn't riding with any females, cause the
probability of males taking risks around females is even higher. (sorry, no
numbers to back that up right now) i don't know to much about that face
at Telluride either, but if it's easy to access and people die there all the
time, then you've just proven the point. we, as adrenaline junkies/powder
hounds/extremist's/idiots make some poor decisions to get our fix. some
people don't know thier own ability and try to test thier waters in places
WAY over thier heads sometimes. i agree with pushing the limits. how
else will we improve our skiing/riding ability? there are steps that will
get you there
, not just going out and doing it. just cause you can hit a
big jump in the terrain park doesn't mean that you can now go throw a
corked 5 over it. this is what the "SMART STYLE" is all about in the
terrain parks. still, some just don't know thier limits and the potential for
the consequences of our actions...and those are the ones we hear about
as sad statistics. same goes for all other types of terrain(extreme, big
mtn. bc, whatever you want to call it). know your limits.

the whole "skull and crossbones" sign might not be the best way to get
the message across. a short little explanation about what you are getting
yourself into when you cross the boundary might have a little more effect
on the situation and decision we might choose to make. although, there
is always the "human factor".

They suggested that the chairlift end several hundred feet earlier to help discourage people from going out. Went on deaf ears. This not to say that ease of backcountry access will get people to use it.

if there's a gate to enter into the backcountry through (easily accessed or
not) then i believe that the ski area has the responsibility of informing
folks the danger that they are about to put themselves into. especially at
very popular resorts that attract many 'vacationers' who expect to ski
powder.....as advertised. a short description about the terrain and how it
is unpredictable and an avalanche rating for the day (low, moderate,
considerable, high, extreme) might be a couple suggestions. the sign
might also suggest that if you don't know what these ratings mean than to
please stay in the boundaries. ( http://www.avalanche.org/usdanger.htm )
some people need to be told, and
shown thier own common sense sometimes.......especially when you can
see a fresh bowl from the lift. 2' of new snow doesn't say a whole lot
except for........sweet turns.......to most people. a few other things that
might be overlooked include, but is not limited to: recent stress on
snowpack, what kind of surface is the snow lying on, what have the
winds been like before/during/after the dump and in what direction, is it
an exposed slope, slope exposure, etc, etc. these thoughts do not go
through most peoples minds when they see a fresh bowl from a chairlift
just outside the boundary. things more like: this is our last day, we're
all "expert" riders, i've done some bc/ob skiing before, it's just outside
the ski area , and my favorite......there's already tracks on it might be
going through most peoples minds.

it's all a blurr after the decision has been made, whether a good one or a
bad one. we all hope they are good ones!

Too bad beacons are not more affordable to the males 20-35 who typically killl themselves in avalanches.

i know it. i wish all my friends could afford one, and thier sisters, and
her friends, and my cousin, and eveyone else who could ski. then we can
all have freshly tracked up snow all winter long....and hike for it.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

THERE ARE TO MANY FOLKS IN THE BC WHO ARE SIMPLY UNAWARE TO
BEGIN WITH. THAT'S ALL WE NEED...... TO MANY FOLKS PUT TO MUCH
EMPHASIS ON THE IMPORTANCE OF THIER EQUIPEMENT AND "SAFETY"
GEAR. THE BEACON IS A VERY CHEAP INSURANCE POLICY.......ALONG
WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR PARTNERS YOU CHOOSE TO GO OUT
WITH. IT IS AN INSURANCE THAT DOESN'T GUARANTEE ANYTHING
THOUGH. YOU CAN STILL DIE. YES, EVEN YOU!
NEXT TIME YOU'RE AT THE TOP OF A RUN IN THE
BACKCOUNTRY, ASK YOURSELF IF YOU WOULD STILL TAKE THAT RUN IF
YOU WERE TO HAND OVER YOUR BEACON TO YOUR BUDDY. AND ASK
YOUR BUDDY TO TURN HIS BEACON OFF TOO. SEE HOW HE/SHE
RESPONDS. NOW, what does my signature say?

i'll add this to it as well. don't put yourself in the situation to begin with.
pick your days, pick your lines, and pick your partners.

Resorts with some really good policies: Sunshine, Alberta and Bridger Bowl, Montana -- the backcountry gates do not open unless you have an avalanche beacon.
everything at Bridger is in bounds. there is no backcountry, nor is there
backcountry gates. it is all controlled area, although they do require a
beacon, shovel, and partner to hike the Ridge........IN BOUNDS terrain
inwhich you paid for. i hike for free thank you very much!
 
ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
The lift is too close to the out-of-bounds gate. Too bad.
The point is some people had some foresight to see that this could be a problem. It's exactly what it has become. From what I have read this is not the first avalanche incident related to this gate.

ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
Of cource nobody in America takes any responsibillity for their actions.
That is for sure.

ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
I really refuse to hear that it is American Ski Co.'s fault for any of this.
I agree that they should not be held liable. There are plenty of warning signs there. Still using a little sense would have made this a less likely scenario. I'm sure trouble was bound to happen there at some point.

ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
In Telluride --- the backside of the mountain is VERY easy to access - from lifts 9, 6 and 14. Beautiful powdery bowls which turn into near vertical chutes or cliff bands. People trigger avalanches and get themsleves killed falling over the the cliffs. Dug out/thawed out in the spring. People die in the Bear Creek drainage all the time.
Yeah I remember, that was a few years ago. Lot's of resorts have easy access gates.

ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
Should Telluride not exist becuase one mountain face probably could kill you?
That's just stupid. No one is suggesting that The Canyons shouldn't exist.

ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
Too bad beacons are not more affordable to the males 20-35 who typically killl themselves in avalanches.
Beacons are great for recovering bodies. 4 full burials this year, with 4 bodies recovered. Beacons really do make the bc safer. At least your family has something to bury. Though you should always have any gear in the bc, education is still your best defense.

ChrisC":1czrqe9t said:
Resorts with some really good policies: Sunshine, Alberta and Bridger Bowl, Montana -- the backcountry gates do not open unless you have an avalanche beacon.
.
I think one of those gates would be the best solution for the Canyons at this point.
 
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