I am interested in going to PowMow this season. I'm very interested in Powder Country (where you catch shuttle bus) and snowcat rides to Lightening ridge. However, I 've read somewhere that heading down towards road in Pow Cntry, it is possible to get lost if you don't know where you're going. Any tips would be appreciated. Also, I'm interested in the wide open bowl areas off Lightening ridge. any tips as to how to access appreciated.
Powder country at Powder Mountain
- Thread starter ste43nou
- Start date
ste43nou":2skpd5fp said:
Welcome, ste45nou! (Oh, man...how to pronounce that nick?)
Really, you've got to work hard to get lost in Powder Country. There are two Powder Country zones, one each to the east and west of the access road (that runs north/south). Unless you somehow get completely disoriented and end up on the wrong side of the ridge that lies west of the road...and that's hard to do...you end up on the road in the pick-up zone for the buses. Should you end up on the wrong side of that western ridge you still end up in civilization but at the bottom of the access road beyond where the buses pick up. The name of that drainage escapes me at the moment.
On the eastern side of the road, you have to work pretty hard to end up one drainage too far west, but again...you just end up too low on the access road for a regular pick-up. Just put your thumb out and catch a ride.
Otherwise there are a couple of marked bus stops along the access road. Once your run ends at the road simply ski down along the shoulder of the road until you encounter one.
As for Lightning Ridge, the snowcat shuttles drop you off at a point about 700 verts below the summit of James Peak. From here you have numerous options. You could hike the peak and ski ENE-facing lines on its face. You could hike partway up to gain enough altitude to traverse as far north along the ridgeline as you want before dropping in, while being mindful to not get so far north that you can't return via the lowermost lift, Paradise. By that point, though, you're well out of bounds (and beyond avi control) even though there's not a boundary rope or sign to indicate so. You could also descend right from the drop-off point, which puts you on some of the only north-facing lines off Lightning Ridge.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for the reply. I've been to PowMow before and have seen the access to Pow Cntry from top of Hidden lake lift by the lodge there. I assume you just go thru and head down to eventually hit road. Any tips as to direction heading down? Also, for Lightening ridge, what is terrain like going down from where snocat drops you off. Probably looking for easiest way down to start off. Thanks Steve
Here, this should help:
You can click on that map to open it full-size.
I've drawn the approximate boundaries of the west Powder Country in purple, the east Powder Country in yellow, and Lightning Ridge in orange.
To answer your specific questions:
Correct.
As you can see from that topo, from the Hidden Lake gate you have to work pretty hard to screw up. Don't stray too far from the obvious fall line and you're fine. It starts off incredibly gentle, not getting steeper until you get close to the road...and it never gets nosebleed steep. The lines are a bit steeper and far more consistent through the Sunset gate.
The south-facing bowl directly south of the top terminal of the Hidden Lake lift is where PowMow runs their new all-day snowcat safaris.
Well, that varies. If you drop straight down from the cat onto the lines that face due north on that topo, that's forested with some open slots, and it drops in a series of stair steps. A more consistent open-slope experience would be obtained by skiing down northwest for about a hundred yards to where the James Peak bootpack starts (you can see the obvious saddle on the ridgeline on that topo) and then descend the ENE-facing flank of James Peak into the drainage. It's much gentler than the north-facing trees, but if that's been sun-baked I'd reckon that would be more difficult than the woods.
And that name that escaped me before is Wolf Creek Canyon. That's great skiing but is technically OOB and is thus not avalanche controlled. Those without knowledge of avalanche travel protocols and some snow science savvy should avoid the area as it's rather steep.
You can click on that map to open it full-size.
I've drawn the approximate boundaries of the west Powder Country in purple, the east Powder Country in yellow, and Lightning Ridge in orange.
To answer your specific questions:
ste43nou":2kcl3vro said:
Correct.
ste43nou":2kcl3vro said:
As you can see from that topo, from the Hidden Lake gate you have to work pretty hard to screw up. Don't stray too far from the obvious fall line and you're fine. It starts off incredibly gentle, not getting steeper until you get close to the road...and it never gets nosebleed steep. The lines are a bit steeper and far more consistent through the Sunset gate.
The south-facing bowl directly south of the top terminal of the Hidden Lake lift is where PowMow runs their new all-day snowcat safaris.
ste43nou":2kcl3vro said:
Well, that varies. If you drop straight down from the cat onto the lines that face due north on that topo, that's forested with some open slots, and it drops in a series of stair steps. A more consistent open-slope experience would be obtained by skiing down northwest for about a hundred yards to where the James Peak bootpack starts (you can see the obvious saddle on the ridgeline on that topo) and then descend the ENE-facing flank of James Peak into the drainage. It's much gentler than the north-facing trees, but if that's been sun-baked I'd reckon that would be more difficult than the woods.
And that name that escaped me before is Wolf Creek Canyon. That's great skiing but is technically OOB and is thus not avalanche controlled. Those without knowledge of avalanche travel protocols and some snow science savvy should avoid the area as it's rather steep.
I presume Wolf Creek Canyon is what Admin & Co. skied when I did the end of the day pickup down the road.
Judging from that topo I'd say that Powder Country and Lightning Ridge each comprise about 20% of Powder Mountain acreage, and slightly steeper on average than the pure lift service. So the pure lift service is ~3,000 acres I'd guess. You could also take the view that there's really more than the 5,500 acres advertised adding in the OB bowl north of James Peak that we skied, still accessible to Paradise, plus Wolf Creek Canyon, accessible with car shuttle pickup.
Judging from that topo I'd say that Powder Country and Lightning Ridge each comprise about 20% of Powder Mountain acreage, and slightly steeper on average than the pure lift service. So the pure lift service is ~3,000 acres I'd guess. You could also take the view that there's really more than the 5,500 acres advertised adding in the OB bowl north of James Peak that we skied, still accessible to Paradise, plus Wolf Creek Canyon, accessible with car shuttle pickup.
Tony Crocker":335vbait said:
You presume correctly.
Tony Crocker":335vbait said:
Well, I have no way to prove or disprove this, but I'd be willing to bet that the 5,500-acre figure often quoted includes all of Dr. Cobabe's former land holdings, whether they're on the trail map or not. That would include all of Wolf Creek Canyon and the area where the snowcat safaris now run. Technically, all are skiable from the current marked ski area and all return you to the access road.
I'll buy that. 5,500 is a lot, roughly the size of Vail, and I do think you would need to include all of the above to get that high. Pure lift service at Powder Mt. looks/feels more like 2,000 acres.
None of this nitpicking changes the message of Powder Mountain, which is all about super low skier density. Those who are drawn by this attribute will naturally be attracted to the Powder Country bus shuttles, Lightning Ridge cat rides and OB car pickups as well.
The key caveat with Powder Mt. is the wide range of exposures and not that high altitude. You don't have to worry about the snow getting tracked out, but you do need to pay attention to how much sun, wind or warm weather there has been since it last snowed. During storms can be good, as there are enough trees for visibility and not nearly as much avalanche exposure as in the Cottonwoods.
Marc_C
Active member
Which means that sometimes, the lack of skiers is actually a liability. When the snow suffers because of sun, wind, warm weather, et al, a more heavily skied line will ski better than punchy crud. This is the approach we use at AltaBird when conditions suffer. With the paucity of skiers at PM, when conditions get poor, they stay poor longer.Tony Crocker":2c1dcr00 said:
ste43nou":1w5ybqi5 said:
Here is shot of James peak. Cat drops you off to the left. About 30 min hike from cat. Anything here will still get you back to the lift. We hit that V to far right in the pic and it was really sun baked
We actually found the snow to be better below where the cat drops you. We were hitting some shaded chutes that had nice snow. You run down the ridge from where the cat drops you. The trees admin described are on your left. You continue down the ridge to the end and may have to go over some rocks and cut back a little to the right and will have some options. Here is a little video of the area
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIs5uDP3lC0[/video]
icelanticskier
New member
Marc_C":19boy0t2 said:
hmmmm. i never knew the conditions in utah could suffer. i'll have to keep that in mind when planning my next trip. :mrgreen:
rog
Bobby Danger
New member
being this is way to public a forum i hesitate to post to much info. on stashes at pow mow. but i personally have skied pow there two weeks after no snow. the finest setteled in silk you can buy for 42$ a day with no hassle.one should have some knowledge of powder country accesed from hidden lake. staying to far left can quickly get you to a place you don't wanna go.powder country is only the begining to the un-known realm of pow mow. 2800 verts in a single shot are not far fetched. where the video was shot that same chute that leads out on to an apron that's 1200 to 1400 verts below them skied that waist deep untracked last winter 4 to 5% density helicopter quality. happens earlier in the year due to elevation & exposure as you found out. but man when you hit the right day it's no less quality than little cottonwood. 8) 8)
icelanticskier
New member
Bobby Danger":23rkeysa said:
sounds better than lcc and on par w/bcc for pow preservation but, lcc is way better man. :lol:
rog
Marc_C
Active member
Comeon rog! You know damned well that sometimes it can downright suck. Just go back through the posts here ever since Admin arrived and notice the number of times where Marc called it a day after 3 or 4 runs trying to search out non-existent good snow. Of course what some visitors consider good we locals consider marginal, but even so...icelanticskier":rs6qckba said:
As but one example:
After 5 days of bright sun and temps of 40F at 8.5K, we get a predicted storm that drops the temps to 8F overnight, rising to 10F by the time lifts turn; but instead of the predicted 12" - 18" we get a whopping 2" 'cause the storm split before it reached us. I'm sorry, but that's gonna suck by anyone's definition.
icelanticskier
New member
Marc_C":2bgur93n said:
in all of my days skiing the wasatch, i've only encountered truly bad conditions once and that was a day in late april of 2001 when i worked at solitude. craig and i toured up the griz road which had been cat groomed for the 1st time for the next seasons cat operation testing. we toured up and considered the snow on all aspects to be really unskiable and toured back down. breakable death crust everywhere and to this day the worst conditions i've ever encountered anywhere east or west.
on any other day however, i've skied nothing but, untracked pow or corn but,i do tour 90% of the time and only resort ski when i'ts refill all day/puking. even in a warm spell in jan of 01 when pow was limited and or crusty on northerly aspects, craig and i just went and lapped perfect supportable corn in se facing snakcreek canyon till it got cold/snow again. as is true in the east,and i've proven it. there's always good snow somewhere.
rog
A basic principle of skiing after spring storms. Day 1 you hit the pow. If it was a sunny day you want to be on groomers or skier pack for a few days after that. Those 2 weekends at Mammoth in April/May 2005 were a good example. Management helped out by leaving most of the mountain alone after the storm and then grooming intensively after we chewed up the pow on the sunny Saturdays. This also applies to the late spring/summer, when skier packed lines will not have the suncupping present in many other locations.
What all of this means for out-of-state visitors to Powder Mt. is that the sweet spot for conditions is generally Christmas through President's week. The aforementioned holidays are especially attractive for crowd avoidance.
Bobby Danger
New member
admin digging in the archives. that snow didn't suck ! pure silk probably six days after the last storm
rfarren
New member
That video looked pretty good to me.
I would like to go to powmow this upcoming season, but I don't think I'll be heading to Utah until mid march, which pretty much negates skiing Powmow. If I make it out there in January.... then for sure, but having dealt with snowbasin in march I think I'll stick to the cottonwoods.
I would like to go to powmow this upcoming season, but I don't think I'll be heading to Utah until mid march, which pretty much negates skiing Powmow. If I make it out there in January.... then for sure, but having dealt with snowbasin in march I think I'll stick to the cottonwoods.