Powder Mountain Changes

[ChrisC]

It was nice to see new lifts at Powder Mountain, but they (Reed Hastings) are really changing the character of the mountain. Perhaps the incompetent Burning Man/Fyre Festival/Tech Millenials were better for the mountain.


Surprisingly, the private Raintree Lift does not service much of Cobabe Canyon. It looks like you could cut any private boundary gates and ski Cobabe as before with the usual runout. Most of the private ski lifts are a bit lackluster.

Now you have 'Powder Mountain Will Only Be Open To Season Passholders During Weekends Throughout February' Link

And paid parking every weekend and holiday day: Link

And Substantial Day Ticket and Pass Price increase: Link

The prices are increasing with season passes going from $1,259 this season to an early bird price of $1,399 for next winter (price go up March 5th to $1,499 and will continue to increase with demand). Many of the discounted categories have also been eliminated for college students, teachers, firefighters, cops and seniors over 75:​

​

“Any passholder of a 2023/24 season pass product (full, night, midweek) can purchase an Adult 2024/25 season pass at $1,399 through March 4th. Youth, Teen, Senior, Military and Midweek passes are also available. All prices can be viewed in the Powder Mountain e-store.​

​

On March 5th, Adult 2024/25 season passes will start at $1,499 and will increase with demand – the earlier you buy, the better your price.​

 

[EMSC]

I already wrote in my last PowMow TR I highly doubted I would ever return. These kind of changes simply puts the final nail in that decision tree.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I read through the Unofficial Networks flaming comments. I do not share the assumption that Powder Mt. will be substantially more crowded with no cap on season passes. The February weekend policy and sky high day ticket prices are clearly aimed at discouraging crowds.

However, I certainly feel the pain of the locals who are being priced out.

I can say with some confidence that if Powder Mt. policies remained what they were historically, the crowds would be coming. They came to Snowbasin. Powder Mt. is far inferior to Snowbasin in terrain quality and only gets 8% more snow over the past 15 seasons. But when you look at the explosive growth in Utah skier visits, it's hard to believe that Powder Mt. would escape the trend.

Below are selected good Utah snowfall seasons before and all seasons after the pandemic. The second number is Rocky Mountain visits excluding Utah.
1996-97: 3.0 million, 15.9 million
2001-02: 3.0 million, 15.1 million
2004-05: 3.9 million, 15.7 million
2010-11: 4.2 million, 16.7 million
2016-17: 4.6 million, 17.1 million
2018-19: 5.1 million, 19.3 million
2020-21: 5.3 million, 17.3 million
2021-22: 5.8 million, 19.5 million
2022-23: 7.1 million, 21.1 million
2023-24: 6.7 million, 20.0 million
Those are very modest dropoff numbers in 2023-24 considering the terrible November/December of 2023.

 

[MarzNC]

But when you look at the explosive growth in Utah skier visits, it's hard to believe that Powder Mt. would escape the trend.

The population of Ogden (city limits) went up about 10% is the last decade. Presumably there has also been growth in areas not in the city limits as well.

However, I certainly feel the pain of the locals who are being priced out.

The locals who have been skiing PowMow and/or Snowbasin for a generation or two are clearly not happy. Unlike recent transplants, moving is not an option. Probably for good reason in comparison to how empty the slopes used to be. They often blame Ikon for the longer lift lines and crowded slopes. However, the increased population in the SLC area may well be a more important factor.

I talked to a couple of local senior women at Snowbasin in 2023. In recent years, they had switched to making the drive to Snowbasin instead of dealing with traffic and parking in LCC/BCC. They were ski buddies who only ski groomers.

 

[ChrisC]

I think the crowding in Utah, Colorado, and Washington State is mostly due to locals—especially newer ones—due to population growth. Almost any new arrival can justify getting an IKON or Epic Pass. And it's not like there have been supporting expansions of parking, roads, or even terrain in the last twenty years or so.


Utah's population has grown significantly since 2000, making it one of the fastest-growing states in the country:

2000: Utah's population was 2,233,169
2010: Utah's population was 2,763,885, a 23.8% increase from 2000
2022: Utah's population was 3,381,236, a 21.8% increase from 2010
2024: Utah's population is estimated to be 3.45 million


It's easier to complain about or scapegoat tourists when the enemy causing crowding is yourself. At least the tourists spend money in ski towns, while local daytrippers do little to support the mountain communities.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I talked to a couple of local senior women at Snowbasin in 2023. In recent years, they had switched to making the drive to Snowbasin instead of dealing with traffic and parking in LCC/BCC.

This is an exact anecdotal example of ChrisC's point. The northern Utah locals are being crowded out by the overflow of metro SLC's growth.

I'd be surprised if we destination visitors ever made up a major proportion of Powder Mt. skier visits. We know one person, Elissa, one of the leading posters on the now defunct Mammoth forum, who made annual multiday trips to Powder Mt. I'm fairly sure 2024 was the final time she will do that. The midweek advance tickets she paid $120 last year and $70 the year before that are $160 for next year if you buy today.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

The population of Ogden (city limits) went up about 10% is the last decade.

When I used to frequent the TGR forum in the 00s, Ogden was always referred to as the armpit of the Wasatch Front. Has that perception changed with the region's sizable population increase?

 

[MarzNC]

When I used to frequent the TGR forum in the 00s, Ogden was always referred to as the armpit of the Wasatch Front. Has that perception changed with the region's sizable population increase?

No idea about the perception among travelers interested in budget lodging but downtown Ogden is nothing like it was when I first drove through in 2011. Mostly new buildings as of 2023. There are more restaurants in Ogden in the upscale bistro category than bar & grill style or diner eating places. The change in the dining scene was already obvious the last time I stayed in Eden, which was March 2017 during one of my daughter's high school spring breaks.

 

[ChrisC]

Below are selected good Utah snowfall seasons before and all seasons after the pandemic. The second number is Rocky Mountain visits excluding Utah.
1996-97: 3.0 million, 15.9 million
2001-02: 3.0 million, 15.1 million
2004-05: 3.9 million, 15.7 million
2010-11: 4.2 million, 16.7 million
2016-17: 4.6 million, 17.1 million
2018-19: 5.1 million, 19.3 million
2020-21: 5.3 million, 17.3 million
2021-22: 5.8 million, 19.5 million
2022-23: 7.1 million, 21.1 million
2023-24: 6.7 million, 20.0 million
Those are very modest dropoff numbers in 2023-24 considering the terrible November/December of 2023.

Interesting Ski Numbers - especially compared to overall Rocky Mountain visits.

One argument for the Olympics was to showcase Utah Skiing and increase tourism/skier days.

I cannot discern an effect. It looks like a ~33% increase, but population growth could have supported much of it.

2000: Utah's population was 2,233,169
2010: Utah's population was 2,763,885, a 23.8% increase from 2000

 

[ChrisC]

Interesting chart from The Storm Skiing Journal regarding Utah skier visits.


The weekend/holiday timeframe has become particularly unpleasant in Utah, where the proliferation of cheap multimountain passes, an exploding population, an ever-improving airport, and God’s decision to park one of planet Earth’s greatest snowtraps directly adjacent to a city of 1.2 million exacerbates typical weekend ski area pressures. Utah, a state with just 15 public, chairlift-served ski areas, averaged nearly 2 million more skier visits over the past six seasons than it did in the six seasons prior:

​

It would be really interesting to see the breakdown of in-state and out-of-state. Some vacationers are pushed into a pass due to the expensive lift tickets, but assume more Utah locals are buying these passes. This is what happened when the first discount pass was introduced at Bogus Basin in 1998.

Bogus Basin introduced its revolutionary cheap season ski pass in March 1998​

​

The Revolutionary Pricing Strategy​

Bogus Basin reduced the cost of an adult season pass from $500 to $199, effectively lowering the break-even point to just seven visits.​

​

This drastic price reduction had a profound impact on both Bogus Basin and the ski industry as a whole:​

​

Immediate Impact: Bogus Basin sold nearly nine times as many passes for the 1998–99 season compared to the previous year, with sales reaching 25,000 passes (up from 2,854 in the 1997–98 season)​

​

Financial Success: The new pricing strategy generated almost four times as much revenue from season pass sales, totaling nearly $3.6 million. This revenue was collected six months before the ski season even began​

​

Increased Skier Visits: Total skier visits increased from under 192,000 to over 303,000, a 58% increase​

​

Overall Revenue Growth: Despite an expected decrease in day ticket sales, Bogus Basin's total revenue increased by $2.6 million (55%) to $7.3 million for the 1998-99 ski season​

​

Industry-Wide Impact​

Shirley's deep-discount strategy proved to be highly effective and influential:​

​

National Trend: Resorts across the United States followed suit, lowering their prices for multi-day, multi-area, and season passes​

​

Local Economic Boost: Locally, ski equipment sales increased significantly as skiers upgraded their gear​

​

Long-term Pricing: The $199 price point for season passes at Bogus Basin remained in effect for fifteen years, until it was raised to $229 for the 2013–14 season​

​

This innovative pricing strategy not only transformed Bogus Basin's financial situation but also revolutionized the ski industry's approach to season pass pricing, making skiing more accessible to a broader audience.​

 

[ChrisC]

I thought this was a decently balanced article regarding Powder Mountain and the changes Reed Hastings is making. The Times UK.

"The Netflix tycoon ‘saving’ a ski resort — by wooing the elite"

Link

 

[Tony Crocker]

Interesting article. I would never have thought Powder Mountain was close to bankruptcy, more the opposite. The explosive growth in Utah population and skier visits has reached Snowbasin, at least on the weekends. My impression is that Reed Hastings saw the handwriting on the wall and and decided to use price/parking reservations to preserve Powder Mountain's low skier density. I'm sure it's correct that he's using the the private membership $$$ to fund infrastructure improvements.

 

[ChrisC]

Interesting article. I would never have thought Powder Mountain was close to bankruptcy, more the opposite.

$75M in back taxes? Yikes! Did the Millenials ever pay a dime?

However the kicker quote:

The US ski market is dominated by two companies that offer rival multi-resort annual passes: the Epic Pass allows access to 41 resorts for $1,047, and the Ikon Pass 58 resorts for $1,449. Critics say they cause overcrowding at resorts and make the mountains monotonous. (Hastings says he wishes he’d thought of it first, but admits they are now experiencing “growing pains”).