Resort help for New Year's Week

[Staley]

I'm trying to plan a weeklong trip for the family starting around New Year's. The only real requirement is that there is sufficient lodging at the mountain (condos or similar preferred). Cushy spa facilities are entirely unnecessary, but there should at least be a few restaurants. This unfortunately rules out Red and Whitewater, and since we won't be relocating midweek, the resort will need to be big enough to not get boring.

Beyond the lodging restriction, I just want to maximize powder potential and pick a resort that is likely to have good coverage by that point in the season.Due to the holiday season, some crowds will exist, but we'd like to minimize them as much as possible.

The Utah locations are the obvious choices, but we want to try something new.

Kirkwood is currently the main candidate, but is their early-season coverage more variable due to the steepness?

How about Fernie, Steamboat or Whitefish?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Kirkwood is currently the main candidate, but is their early-season coverage more variable due to the steepness?

No, it's more variable due to Sierra snowfall volatility. I'm not sure why Kirkwood would be that good as a week long lodging choice. I suspect that lodging isn't particularly cheap, restaurants are surely limited vs. most places, and usually with Tahoe the idea is to get around and sample different places. And since you're here in CA during ski season, I'd use this opportunity in your situation to go somewhere else.

...there should at least be a few restaurants. This unfortunately rules out Red and Whitewater...

Not for that reason. Rossland and Nelson both have a decent range of restaurants, definitely more than Kirkwood. Refusal to relocate the lodging base is the only reason you have to rule them out.

How about Fernie, Steamboat or Whitefish?

All good choices at New Year's week IMHO. Good snow records, all known for tree skiing. Steamboat probably has the most consistent snow record, but would be the busiest at the start of the week and probably the most expensive. Fernie has the most steep terrain among those choices, but has more weather variability with potential for terrain closures. The new lift may help out the latter but it will take a season of Craig Morris' reports before we know how much. Fernie gives you the option to daytrip to Whitefish and/or Castle. So Whitefish with daytrip option to Fernie is viable too.

 

[Staley]

A cursory search of Kirkwood lodging showed some pretty absurd lodging prices, and it would be more exciting to try something far away from California.

Can you comment on the differences between Fernie and Whitefish? I'd love to try Castle, but if it's 1.5 hours from Fernie, my family is probably not going to do that as a day trip. You say Fernie is a little steeper, but is Whitefish still plenty interesting for 6 days?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Trees go to the top of Whitefish; Fernie has some above timberline areas, more now with the new chair. Fernie's base is lower, so more rain incidence and the topography tends to force you down there with some frequency.

Whitefish does have a lot of acreage, so most people would be fine there for a week. If you're a steeps junkie and want what you get at Squaw or Jackson there aren't many places that meet that requirement. I would say Whitefish has more steeps than Steamboat but not a lot more. As at Steamboat you'll be very happy in the trees if you get powder. There should be some people around here with more experience at Whitefish than the 3 days I've had. Fernie I've had 4 days, but I've read 13 seasons of Craig Morris' reports so I think I understand the place quite well.

I'd love to try Castle, but if it's 1.5 hours from Fernie, my family is probably not going to do that as a day trip.

If you're flying in/out of Calgary Castle is a fairly modest detour on the way to/from Fernie.

 

[q]

Whitefish in every single area leads the way over Fernie.

Better town by a mile, better mountain by a country mile serviced by a vastly superior lift system, as good snow generally and less chance of rain.

The base area at Big Mountain is expanding when I visited last winter compared to how I remembered it having been every year between 2000 and around 2005. The Stube is still there, plenty lodging on mountain and lots of options down in town linked by a free bus to the mountain. I've spent I'd guess in total around ~30 days at BM v 10/12 at Fernie and i'd go back there long before I would ever go to Fernie.

Go to a UK based forum, ask the same question and they will all say to go to Fernie, enough said, as good a reason to avoid the place like the plague than any other.

 

[Staley]

Very interesting!

Looks like the week is down to Whitefish and Whistler. I've been to Whistler before, but I was barely good enough to ski single black diamonds at the time. It certainly has Big Mountain beat on snow and terrain, but it's probably just too expensive. With the new Peak-2-Peak gondola, is Creekside a plenty viable option without a car since it'll be less expensive?

 

[socal]

With the new Peak-2-Peak gondola, is Creekside a plenty viable option without a car since it'll be less expensive?

Whistler would be a great choice. I was there before the new gondola but I'd think you'd need a car if you stay there since from what I remember it's not walking distance to the village. Go to Whistler and stay in the village (either Whistler or Blackcomb).

 

[Tony Crocker]

Whitefish vs. Fernie:

Better town by a mile

Inclined to agree

better mountain by a country mile

Not for experts IMHO. More steeps at Fernie, especially with the new lift. JSpin deconstructed my strongly favorable first impression of Whitefish's tree skiing. It's very good, but in about a 1,000 vertical range. Fernie's tree skiing is among the best anywhere. Whitefish is much better for intermediates than Fernie.

serviced by a vastly superior lift system,

Agree, probably a contributing factor to q's impression that Fernie is more crowded.

as good snow generally

Fernie does get more snow ~360 vs. ~300

and less chance of rain.

No question about that. I tweaked my 2003 visit to both areas to take one day away from Fernie and add it to Whitefish due to rain affecting only the lower 1/3 of Whitefish vs. over half of Fernie. FYI Castle is colder and less vulnerable to rain than either.

There's a lot of individual preference involved here. If ripping the wide open steeps at the top of Mammoth is what you like best, Castle is not to be missed. For the tree skiing aficionados Fernie would be top priority. For a group with mixed abilities Whitefish has the best balance.

I agree with socal's comments about Whistler. In 1998 Adam and I stayed at Creekside but we did have a car. With a group perhaps the difference in price between village + transfers and Creekside will pay for the car. FYI one of Whistler's top restaurants, Rim Rock Cafe, is walking distance to Creekside.

 

[Staley]

Well, we've decided on Whistler since getting free flights with miles to Vancouver was oddly cheap for a holiday period. Still have to find lodging, so I'll appeal to you for help with location. If we stay in the upper village near Wizard Express, we can only go up Blackcomb; it would be a long walk to the Whistler Village lifts. If we stay in Whistler Village, there's access to both the Whistler Gondola and Blackcomb Gondola. That obviously appeals, but is there actually a situation where I will want to go up the Whistler side first thing in the morning?

Basically, on powder days when being first is important, will I want to be on the Whistler side for any particular reason? Which side is generally preferred for storm days? I know Extremely Canadian goes straight to the Peak Chair at Whistler on the first day after the storm, but is there sufficient terrain at Blackcomb that will also be untracked (and perhaps see fewer crowds than the Peak Chair)?

 

[Tony Crocker]

If we stay in the upper village near Wizard Express, we can only go up Blackcomb; it would be a long walk to the Whistler Village lifts.

Incorrect. The short Magic chair from the Blackcomb base leads to the Village Run to the Whistler base. I stayed in the upper village on 3 of my Whistler trips, the other one being at Creekside. Some of the upper village properties are up the mountain a bit, fine for skiing but a bit more difficult for evening access to the village. I always say find your property on a village map before booking.

Which side is generally preferred for storm days?

Probably Blackcomb in terms of slightly less frequent closures of upper lifts

I know Extremely Canadian goes straight to the Peak Chair at Whistler on the first day after the storm, but is there sufficient terrain at Blackcomb that will also be untracked

Whistler has more direct access skiing. Not obvious navigation is required to the steeps below Secret Bowl and it takes a while to return to the Spanky's Ladder runs after skiing the Blackcomb Glacier runout. Thus Extremely Canadian believes they can get more powder on the second day after a storm at Blackcomb.

Staley would be a good fit for Extremely Canadian IMHO.

 

[Staley]

Does the Magic Chair open before the other lifts so people can get in line for the Whistler side along with all everyone staying over there?

Extremely Canadian does sound like a great option (especially the Saturday/Sunday 2-day clinic as those will be our first two ski days), if only it wasn't $400 for two days not including lift tickets...

Is there a specific guidebook or online resource that I should read to learn how to get to all the good terrain? I'm sure some of it is obvious, but is something like Secret Bowl obscure enough that I wouldn't find its best spots on my own?

 

[Patrick]

Is there a specific guidebook or online resource that I should read to learn how to get to all the good terrain? I'm sure some of it is obvious, but is something like Secret Bowl obscure enough that I wouldn't find its best spots on my own?

Yes, there is. I know they are two books: one for intermediate/expert...and one for the off-piste stuff be, I believe, the same author. I have one of them at home (the book section of my blog should be up in the next few weeks) - you'll have to wait for the exact reference. I bought at the MEC a few years ago.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm sure some of it is obvious, but is something like Secret Bowl obscure enough that I wouldn't find its best spots on my own?

I wrote the following in response to a question after my last visit in January 2008:

the visibility does create issues in finding the best lines, even with 15 prior days there before this trip. I did a decent navigation job Thursday but not so good at times on Friday. On my own I wasn't going to look for the more technical entrances to steep terrain in the fog and snow. If you turn the navigation job over to Extremely Canadian or other knowledgeable locals you won't be disappointed.

I was lucky that my first 3 days back in 1991 were clear, though with about 70% spring conditions. I do think Whistler is not a good place for beginners (teaching areas are low down where snow conditions are variable) and somewhat less than ideal for low intermediates.

For advanced intermediates and up terrain is unbeatable in North America. And upper mountain snow consistency is first-rate.

Fog, clouds and, at the time of year you'll be there, flat light are to Whistler what wind is to Mammoth. It's usually part of the territory. Some people (admin, for example) are bothered by that more than others. I usually resist wearing goggles, but at Whistler I end up wearing them a lot. The more technical lines with constricted entries, choke points, etc. can usually be scouted while riding lifts at Mammoth or Squaw. At Whistler you are more likely to need to follow someone who has been there before. I've had 16 days there and I'll bet there's a lot I haven't seen yet.

 

[coldsmoke]

I usually resist wearing goggles

That's interesting, you just wear sun glasses most of the time?

 

[Patrick]

I usually resist wearing goggles

That's interesting, you just wear sun glasses most of the time?

with no hat and a one-piece. :wink:

the visibility does create issues in finding the best lines, even with 15 prior days there before this trip.

Fog, clouds and, at the time of year you'll be there, flat light are to Whistler what wind is to Mammoth.

Some people (admin, for example) are bothered by that more than others.

I totally agree with Tony's statements. I've only done a 6 day trip in season and it was flat light/fog on 80% of the time (2 wks in June also). I felt totally disoriented above treeline on that April 1-6 1996 trip. Most of the stuff I know is true my primary ski partner from the 1980s that moved to Whistler for one year in Fall 1987...and never came back East.

 

[steveosiris]

+1... I just stayed at Whistler and had an amazing time. I did have to rent a car, but having a car gave me and my group quite a bit of freedom. Great place, great snow. I would suggest Whistler to anyone that wants to have a great skiing trip!

With the new Peak-2-Peak gondola, is Creekside a plenty viable option without a car since it'll be less expensive?

Whistler would be a great choice. I was there before the new gondola but I'd think you'd need a car if you stay there since from what I remember it's not walking distance to the village. Go to Whistler and stay in the village (either Whistler or Blackcomb).

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[higgins9875]

Tony is too modest. He has written extensively if you poke around http://www.bestsnow.net/ especially his articles on early season skiing.
We have had good luck at Jackson Hole for the New Years week, BTW.