Ski Area Count 2023 Update
- Thread starter ChrisC
- Start date
I missed this while we were on the post Iron Blosam road trip. For the rest of you, please list new areas skied in 2023-24 and I'll update the chart at the top of page 2 in this thread.
That's due to the circumstances of your retirement with your son resident in Utah. My experience is quite the opposite, averaging 4.3 new areas per season while working and 9.6 since retirement
Updated regional ski area count with JimK added (Whistler and Blackcomb counted as two):
| Region | ChrisC | TonyC | James | Patrick | Liz | Lonnie | EMSC | JimK |
| Eastern Canada | 4 | 4 | 18 | 71 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| US Northeast | 67 | 8 | 28 | 32 | 23 | 1 | 35 | 29 |
| US Atlantic+Southeast+Midwest | 25 | 1 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 13 | 16 |
| US Northwest | 18 | 16 | 2 | 4 | 7 | 30 | 2 | 1 |
| US Southwest | 24 | 28 | 0 | 4 | 17 | 34 | 9 | 9 |
| Colorado | 23 | 22 | 12 | 2 | 20 | 27 | 26 | 15 |
| Utah | 10 | 14 | 9 | 2 | 12 | 15 | 11 | 10 |
| Other US Rockies | 23 | 32 | 13 | 6 | 25 | 50 | 7 | 6 |
| Western Canada | 23 | 38 | 3 | 22 | 17 | 26 | 10 | 6 |
| Austria | 6 | 16 | 33 | 2 | 16 | 0 | 0 | 5 |
| France | 27 | 25 | 26 | 16 | 26 | 0 | 5 | 0 |
| Italy | 14 | 16 | 1 | 3 | 16 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Switzerland | 25 | 25 | 44 | 4 | 20 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Other Europe | 0 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Asia | 5 | 11 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Southern Hemisphere | 4 | 26 | 0 | 28 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Total | 298 | 286 | 199 | 199 | 228 | 183 | 118 | 99 |
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Just for giggles I'll contribute my comparatively meagre effort. I'm not a record keeper so this is off the top of my head. I'll group the interconnected areas.
Australia -
Thredbo
Perisher
Charlotte Pass
New Zealand-
Coronet Peak
Remarkables
Mt Hutt
USA-
Northstar
Mammoth
Alpine Meadows
Squaw Valley
Alta
Snowbird
Snowbasin
Brighton
Aspen (x 4)???
Big Sky
Sun Valley
Grand Targhee
Jackson Hole
Mt Bachelor
Mt Hood
Japan -
Niseko (x 4)???
Moiwa
Kirroro
Sapporo Teine
Canada-
Whistler
Blackcomb
Lake Louise
Sunshine
France-
Les Arcs
La Plagne
Tignes
Val DÍsere
Chamonix (x 4)???
La Rosiere
Serre Chevalier (x4)???
Les 2 Alps
Montgenevre
Tre Valleys (x 4)???
Italy
La Thuille
Cervinia (and Valtounenche)???
Dolomites (x 5)
Courmayeur
Claviere
Pila
Austria-
Zillertal (x 5)???
Ishchgl
St Anton (x 3)??
See
Switzerland -
Zermatt
Samnaun (attached to Ischgl)??
If I include the individual areas within the grouped areas I get to about 77. The obvious anomaly given my residency is Japan. I will rectify that. I plan to add at least 9 areas over the next 9 months.
Can I get extra points for effort? I would wager my 'average distance from home to ski area' is up there with almost anyone on the planet.
Australia -
Thredbo
Perisher
Charlotte Pass
New Zealand-
Coronet Peak
Remarkables
Mt Hutt
USA-
Northstar
Mammoth
Alpine Meadows
Squaw Valley
Alta
Snowbird
Snowbasin
Brighton
Aspen (x 4)???
Big Sky
Sun Valley
Grand Targhee
Jackson Hole
Mt Bachelor
Mt Hood
Japan -
Niseko (x 4)???
Moiwa
Kirroro
Sapporo Teine
Canada-
Whistler
Blackcomb
Lake Louise
Sunshine
France-
Les Arcs
La Plagne
Tignes
Val DÍsere
Chamonix (x 4)???
La Rosiere
Serre Chevalier (x4)???
Les 2 Alps
Montgenevre
Tre Valleys (x 4)???
Italy
La Thuille
Cervinia (and Valtounenche)???
Dolomites (x 5)
Courmayeur
Claviere
Pila
Austria-
Zillertal (x 5)???
Ishchgl
St Anton (x 3)??
See
Switzerland -
Zermatt
Samnaun (attached to Ischgl)??
If I include the individual areas within the grouped areas I get to about 77. The obvious anomaly given my residency is Japan. I will rectify that. I plan to add at least 9 areas over the next 9 months.
Can I get extra points for effort? I would wager my 'average distance from home to ski area' is up there with almost anyone on the planet.
I do not separate Niseko or Serre Chevalier but do all the others, aside from Zillertal, where I've never been but looking at maps I see at least 4 substantial but geographically separate areas.
I've been updating the TGR thread on this subject. The vast majority of posters are under 100. Tseeb told me about it a couple of years ago and my first post is on page 7. I'm very surprised no one else over there is over 200. But I'm still an amateur. Jimmy Petterson is at 650 and Arnie Wilson was at 746 when I met him in Iceland in 2015.
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Define good.
James posted this a couple times:
I will say (along with ChrisC earlier in this thread) that I would almost never go out of my way to ski anything below James' Tier 2 above without a very good reason, like this past July 10 for instance.
Those are ski area names.
What is the criteria for each tier?
Putting Plattekill below Stratton and Mount Snow is a joke.
I guess it depends on whether the criteria includes potential for fun.
That list wasn't based on objective or even subjective criteria; rather, the general viewpoints of le grand public. As you're aware, I've made a cottage industry out of skiing third- and fourth-tier ski areas in North America and the Alps. Just because they occupy lower tiers doesn't mean they suck or offer worse ski experiences than the higher-ranked ones; in fact, I tend to avoid the first tier in general. For example, the only reason I went to Val d'Isere last winter was Tony's relentless browbeating.
Ultimately, I was glad I went and it lived up to the hype; however, it's not a place I would proactively choose to visit. Same deal with places like Alta/Snowbird. To once again cite the philosophy of Ricky Roma (Al Pacino in Glengarry Glen Ross), "I subscribe to the Law of Contrary Public Opinion. If everyone thinks one thing, I say bet the other way.”
ChrisC
Well-known member
I would add the following ski areas:
Cortina really breaks down into 3 relatively unconnected ski areas (the exception is the lateral gondola from Tofana to Cinque Torri). Even within these 3 areas, lifts are owned by multiple ski lift companies - for example, Cinque Torri and Lagazuoi are separate entities.
So, I would add the following to my list:
- Cortina - Faloria/Cristallo
- Cortina - Cinque Torri/Lagazuoi
- Arabba/Marmaloda - my home base, skied local slopes and Marmolada
- Val di Fassa/Carezza - home to the Sass Pordoi cable car
- Val Gardena - skied through
- Alta Badia - skied through
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So the criteria for each tier is....popularity?
Dolomites are hard to classify. In the limited Cortina conditions of March 2022 Liz and I skied 4 hours at Tofana. I had counted 5 new for ChrisC in Italy, now updated to 6. I do not yet count Val di Fassa for myself as I skied through on the Sella Ronda, estimate 2,700 vertical looking at a map. Hopefully I will correct that situation in the future with a visit to Sass Pordoi. I have also not yet counted Les Menuires as I had exactly one run there (though it was 3,100 vertical) and only much later learned it has a separate lift ticket option.
I'll defend James on this one. All of his Tier 2 areas are at least close to 2,000 vertical and the Tier 3 ones are generally barely 1,000. In the East, where skiing is primarily on cut trails for the vast majority, vertical drop is an objective measure that works fairly well. I know Patrick looks at it that way too.
Vertical does not work so well as a measuring stick in the West. Some places under 2,000 ski very big due to sprawl and lots of open terrain with varied pitch and fall lines. A-Basin, Alpine Meadows and Kirkwood are good examples.
James also mentions that snow reliability in the East is usually aligned with his tiers. In that regard Gore/Whiteface and upper New England are superior to the Catskills and lower New England.
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You’ve never skied there?
So there you have it. Criteria, as requested.
Now explain Killington vs Whiteface.
I'm guessing about 20 times over the past 23 years, a fair number with FTO's former Admin, whose posse always give you the local's tour, which sometimes includes terrain that's above my paygrade. The two ski areas are obviously popular for a reason but they fall into my "Law of Contrary Public Opinion" buzzsaw.
Yes, however, my tiers include a lot of intangibles (determined by me!) and as mentioned again, I'm often happier at a Tier 3 than a higher tier.
I'll disagree with that one too. Killington clearly has more reliable snow.
In each individual case, it depends upon what the reason is that "Public Opinion" might be wrong. In the case of Alta/Snowbird, for decades the positives have been too compelling. But now there is a traffic/parking issue, which might affect weekend/powder day decisions if not staying on the mountain. At Val d'Isere, if staying in the resort, I see little evidence of overcrowding with the exception of end-of-the-day if it hasn't snowed in awhile. And the James-type places in the Alps may also be subject to end-of-the-day downloading with marginal conditions on lower slopes.
The point where I agree with James is on powder days the desire for less competition is more important than the desire for marquee terrain.
Perhaps this is the time to mention that my percent of powder in the Alps (11.7%) has now fallen below that in Utah (12.9%) though it still exceeds all other US regions. The past 4 Iron Blosam weeks have averaged 2 feet new snow (expectation would be 18 inches) while the only big powder days we have had in the Alps during that time were in Via Lattea in 2023. I believe from 2013-2019 both James and I had a run of above average luck with new snow in Europe. Both Euro and Utah experiences seem to be reverting towards the mean. And it wasn't just Iron Blosam week for Utah. Alta's snowfall was 80% of normal over a stretch of 7 seasons from 2012-2018. But Utah has reasserted its snowfall edge over the rest of North America in a major way the past two seasons.
For the most part true, but there was also that skied-off overcrowded autobahn connecting Val d'Isere with Tignes. My bad leg did not enjoy that.