Snowbird, 1/16/2009

[Tony Crocker]

First of 4 days in Utah. Clear and comfortable with soft packed powder snow on 90% of the mountain. Good enough for me if not for the locals. It was a very quiet day with no lines anywhere, well below what I see on the midweek days when I'm at the Iron Blosam in March. I was not that energetic today, stopped often to rest or take pics and left at 3:30, yet still skied 28,400.

I started with a couple of tram warmups, first Chip's then Upper Silver Fox

Silver Fox has good snow, but a few more rocks than in March.

Everyone knows this weather is my trademark in Utah, and in March the sunny exposures are often difficult. So I made an effort to ski a lot of these places today, since the January sun is not strong enough to mess up the snow. In particular 4 runs in Mineral Basin, all paralleling the lift and 3 ending in those short chutes under the chair. I also took one ride up the Baldy chair.

View of Mineral Basin from top of Baldy

Alta hikers headed up to Baldy Chutes. Admin says first time that's been permitted since before Christmas.

Morning view from Hidden Peak down LCC. Later in the afternoon the Salt Lake Valley got hazy from the inversion.

After lunch I took some Cirque traverses to more runs I rarely ski in March.

Looking down the Tower 3 Chute. East facing but shaded with soft snow in January.

This put me down by Peruvian, so I took the chair up, then through the tunnel for one last run in Mineral Basin.

Next time out the Cirque traverse I skied this Gad Chute. Steep with narrow spots, but very forgiving snow.

The finalCirque traverse was to the Restaurant Roll area, which I have not skied before.

View partway down.

Restaurant Row viewed from Gadzoom lift.

 

[icelanticskier]

looks like a very nice day to get around the mtn. gotta love the low crowds.
rog

 

[Marc_C]

Alta hikers headed up to Baldy Chutes. Admin says first time that's been permitted since before Christmas.

And the first time all season that Little and Dog Leg were open.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Tony's high-pressure jinx is pretty uncanny.

 

[Admin]

Tony's high-pressure jinx is pretty uncanny.

Tell us about it. :roll: When do you think it's supposed to break? Barely 48 hours after he's scheduled to leave.

 

[Patrick]

Tony's high-pressure jinx is pretty uncanny.

Tell us about it. :roll: When do you think it's supposed to break? Barely 48 hours after he's scheduled to leave.

I guess that Jackson Hole event in 2006 might have been a fluke? :-k It was pretty dry in Chile when he was there also.

Mind you, he didn't set the timing for that Jackson trip, it was NASJA. It didn't snow on his ski days before the convention and he was leaving afterward while I was in the skiing a storm in Utah. :mrgreen:

We should see if there is a correlation between Tony's visits (planned by him - not part of tours/conventions) and other days in that same time period. :snowball fight:

 

[kingslug]

Missed the Basin by a day......

 

[Tony Crocker]

We should see if there is a correlation between Tony's visits

It appears to be a Utah only phenomenon. Recall that I went to Whistler during its season from hell in 2005. Its 2-month drought was broken by 33 inches during the 3 days before I arrived.

 

[icelanticskier]

We should see if there is a correlation between Tony's visits

It appears to be a Utah only phenomenon. Recall that I went to Whistler during its season from hell in 2005. Its 2-month drought was broken by 33 inches during the 3 days before I arrived.

ya, before you arrived. what happened while you were there? seconds? thirds? c'mon tony, we want facts and figures.
rog

 

[Tony Crocker]

Whistler 2005 trip:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=881

I don't recall why I didn't post pics. Maybe because Extremely Canadian goes at a fast pace, especially when it's the first decent powder they have seen in 3 months.

 

[Patrick]

Maybe because Extremely Canadian goes at a fast pace, especially when it's the first decent powder they have seen in 3 months.

AH HA !!!

We should see if there is a correlation between Tony's visits

It appears to be a Utah only phenomenon. Recall that I went to Whistler during its season from hell in 2005. Its 2-month drought was broken by 33 inches during the 3 days before I arrived.

Yes, Whistler, Las Lenas...but that was with Extreme Canadian. What was my actual quote?

We should see if there is a correlation between Tony's visits (planned by him - not part of tours/conventions) and other days in that same time period. :snowball fight:

What is the correlation when you set the date (not related with tour, convention, etc). :lol:

 

[Tony Crocker]

I set the Whistler date based upon Adam's spring break. Extremely Canadian runs their Whistler clinics all year. FYI Extremely Canadian did not choose a good week for La Grave last year, though they made the best of it. Sort of like you, Patrick.

 

[Patrick]

Sort of like you, Patrick.

Yes, but I'm not the one that seeks powder trips and is the specialist on when and where to get the "powder"'. :wink:

There is a French expression that does something about a shoemaker with bad shoes. (coordonnier mal chaussé).

 

[Tony Crocker]

La Grave is more about terrain than powder. But if it hasn't snowed for a month, some lines (like the well-known Trifedes couloirs) become too dangerous to ski. So Extremely Canadian got to show us a few spectacular lines, but probably not as many as during an average week.

I've been very outspoken in demonstrating that predicting powder for destination trips is an often futile exercise. That's why I go cat skiing every year, to ensure at least some. The other trips I do a good job from research of avoiding the most unpleasant conditions, and if there's powder that's icing on the cake. No powder these last 4 days in Utah, but some great skiing nonetheless. Even spoiled admin will agree.

If you insist on a steady diet of powder you have to live very near it like admin or JSpin. I'm reasonably content with the 15-20% that I get most recent seasons.

 

[Sharon]

I've been very outspoken in demonstrating that predicting powder for destination trips is an often futile exercise. That's why I go cat skiing every year, to ensure at least some. The other trips I do a good job from research of avoiding the most unpleasant conditions, and if there's powder that's icing on the cake. No powder these last 4 days in Utah, but some great skiing nonetheless. Even spoiled admin will agree.

If you insist on a steady diet of powder you have to live very near it like admin or JSpin. I'm reasonably content with the 15-20% that I get most recent seasons.

I have been pretty lucky lately and have skied more powder days than non-powder days this season. I had been lucky the last few years with planning my Utah trip the first week of Feb. But this year, I planned a 2 week trip, for added insurance. After 5 powder days in a row last year I became spoiled and wanted to increase the chances of skiing powder like that again. The last few years it seemed that more snow fell the last week of January, so that is the week I added onto my trip.

After skiing 2 full days this past weekend and feeling quite exhausted the 3rd day, opting out of alpine skiing (instead did a short backcountry tour), I surely hope that my body will hold up for a 2 week ski vacation. This will be quite a test for me. I'm looking forward to it, and hope to ski at least 10 days, maybe even 12.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Yes, but I'm not the one that seeks powder trips and is the specialist on when and where to get the "powder"'. :wink:

There is a French expression that does something about a shoemaker with bad shoes. (cordonnier mal chaussé).

LOL... brutal. "Doctor heal thyself"

I remember the expression as something like "the son of the shoemaker has the worst shoes." Fixed the French spelling for you, Patrick. :wink:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I just reread the last few posts... the irony is piling up like horse manure. Tony is content with a 15-20% powder day ratio? Couldn't most people get that by throwing darts at a board? Blindfolded?

 

[Tony Crocker]

We've hashed over the definition of powder days in other threads that I won't bother referring to again. I don't think it's reasonable to say a day is or isn't a powder day. I prefer to count how much of the skiing on a given day is actually powder. By that criteria my best season in 1998-99 was 27% powder. 12 of the 26 ski days had at least 7K of powder by my stricter than normal definition, and another 3 had a few powder runs. So by the standards of the majority here on FTO that season was 50+% powder days. I therefore presume a recent average (since 1996-97) season for me is about 1/3 powder days by consensus FTO definition. Recall also that a fair amount of my skiing comes late in the season when I may not be getting any powder but most of you easterners (except those willing to grunt their way up Mt. Washington) have moved on to other recreation due to no more lift served skiing.

Again I make no claim that my number crunching can be used to predict powder days. I believe that I have in fact demonstrated the opposite. If you want more powder than you're getting, you either have to spend the $$$ for cat/heli or set yourself up with a flexible schedule within daytrip drive distance of 250+ inches/year.

Everyone knows that weather is volatile. My track record in Utah is amusing but I don't lose any sleep over it. I go there regularly but Utah represents only 12% of my lifetime skiing. There are cross sections of my skiing where powder days are disproportionately high (1998-99, NASJA West meetings, Aspen, Castle Mt. etc.) but they have no predictive value either.

I'm in complete agreement with Patrick that powder is not the exclusive criterion of a quality ski experience. Taking that view is a recipe for frequent unhappiness IMHO. Interesting terrain combined with adequate coverage/conditions to ski it should be sufficient for most skiers. It's the definition of the latter where Patrick and I have our disagreements. :snowball fight: Racing and terrain parks seem to be the most common ways to make "molehill" skiing more interesting. So no surprise to me that Patrick is an avid racer.

 

[Marc_C]

I'm in complete agreement with Patrick that powder is not the exclusive criterion of a quality ski experience. Taking that view is a recipe for frequent unhappiness IMHO.

I think perhaps it's entirely in the eye of the beholder. For those where getting a powder day is elusive - eg: much of the northeast, unless you have a flexible enough schedule to be able to do your 250 mile drive mid-week - might value it higher. For those of us near enough to the mountains - be it west or east - to be able to grab a powder day for 3 hrs in the morning, maybe not so much. Personally, living 20 minutes from AltaBird, perfect spring corn in April is far more difficult than the run-of-the-mill powder day in February, thanks to our frequent spring storms that cover up any decent corn and turn to unpleasant mush within a day (or even 4 hrs).

Interesting terrain combined with adequate coverage/conditions to ski it should be sufficient for most skiers.

That absolutely pegs it, imho.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

My mistake... I (and apparently Patrick as well) misinterpreted the intent of hundreds and hundreds of posts, tables, reports, and articles that were written or compiled by Tony over the years.

I always understood the upshot of his extensive historical data and analysis to be "how to maximize your chances of scoring excellent ski conditions." Since these discussions took place on FTO (and not Epicski or Alpine Zone), I was puzzled when the line was redrawn from "excellent ski conditions" (what I understood to mean fresh powder or well preserved powder) to merely "adequate coverage/conditions," which is what one can reliably find at Okemo or Big Bear.