Snowbird to close early

Not particularly surprising. Yet they really did push it pretty far last year, staying open even with stretches of mandatory walking in Little Cloud and no skiable snow from the Tram down to the top of LC. Even the upper section of the Regulator road from the Tram was melted out. Right now, although going fast, there's still more coverage than on closing weekend last season.

Does anyone know if they'll be allowing ski gear with signing the disclaimer form on the summer Tram rides, as they have in prior years?

Well, we can always boot up the Superior snowfield and Suicide Chute, as an intrepid 3 were doing on Sunday. Two others were boot-packing their way up Pipeline Chute as well when I left. There were also a significant number of tracks on High Rustler and various lines in the Wildcat woods, notably Bridge Shot and Max's.
 
Looks like Mammoth will be the last of the non-glacier ski areas to stay open this season. Plus snow in the forecast this weekend, and flurries all day today.
 
Well, I'm somewhat surprised. Snowbird was still skiable to the bottom last weekend, though perhaps not now. That would imply at least 2 more weeks of cover for Little Cloud.

Comparing Memorial Day reports, I had the impression Snowbird had deeper cover than Mammoth. But Mammoth had 8,000+ skiers over the holiday vs. ??? at Snowbird. Mammoth also has racers training on the mountain now. So I suspect there's more economics than snow involved in Snowbird's decision.
 
Tony Crocker":3fa46yg6 said:
Mammoth also has racers training on the mountain now. So I suspect there's more economics than snow involved in Snowbird's decision.
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I actually haven't seen any race camps on the mountain for the last 5 days...
 
That's a fairly detailed description of the snow, so I'm inclined to take Snowbird management at their word. It's puzzling that it would get that way so quickly after 600 inches, but there are a lot of variables, as I discussed on Mammoth Forum a month ago. One speculation I might make is that the 200+ inches they got after March 22 probably doesn't hold up as well as similar snowfall received during the dead of winter.
 
Tony Crocker":13aj11ek said:
That's a fairly detailed description of the snow, so I'm inclined to take Snowbird management at their word. It's puzzling that it would get that way so quickly after 600 inches, but there are a lot of variables, ...
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The largest factors are how hot it gets, how quickly, for how long, and are there any night freezes, that latter being of real importance. In seasons were we've comfortably gone to mid or late June, April and esp. May tended to be cooler than normal with night refreezes. That hasn't been the case the past several weeks. Add to that some frequent and surprising amounts of rain.

What's surprising about Snowbird's decision though, as I mentioned earlier, is when you compare to last season, were on the last weekend there was 100 yds of mandatory walking on Road to Provo, walking down from the Tram to the top of LC, brown slush and lots of minerals to get to Regulator, and sections of all routes back to LC loaded with rocks, running water, and open patches. Without being up there I can't say, but I also can't imagine it being worse than what I just described.
 
v i was in the eight a.m. tram sunday morning and everything down to the top of suprise gully was frozen solid on my first run, my second , my third run to the bottom no issues to the tram bridge one little spot thirty yards from the bridge. seven trams and three little clouds by noon when i met marc-c going up little cloud for the third trip. definetly economic demons working against the general public and pass holders. time to buy the summer time pass and continue on it's the warm ski season now there's zero competetion for the corn. ninty seven percent of that mtn. is still skiable with little issue and deep bases. skined up to the top of collins late monday afternoon slow at work and came down wildcat gully to the base still full as could be. that will probably be the last skiable line in the canyon that faces north off the tram. with the summer schedule kicking in it's possible now to go after a full days work see the tourist trams board till eight in the evening it doesn't get dark till nine thirty. evening main chutes were just made alot easier i.m.o. . snowbird probably wouldn't let just anyone board the tram with their equipment unless the tram operator knew them and knew he or she knows the mtn. even if he or she signed the waiver good lawyers would chew something like that up and cause grief.based on personal experiences in the past this time of year it's a good thing the tram operator has the final word . you wouldn't beleive some of the characters that show up .
 
I've learned that BobbyD has the most credibility around here for explaining what's happening in the Wasatch. :bow: Thanks for clearing things up.

seven trams and three little clouds by noon
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That's 24,300.

As long as the summer waiver policy continues, not much :-({|= necessary for the Utards about the early closure of "official skiing." Most of you were doing sidecountry type runs and minimal groomers anyway.
 
now for the most part anyone that's got equipment on the tram you can bet they know where there going on the hill. sixty dallars for unlimited tram rides all summer. ya it's rained a little thunder shower type stuff. saturday it snowed on skidog and i on little cloud chair in one of those thunder showers.generally the snow we receive in march has a higher density( hence ) more moisture it takes more warm weather to melt dense snow vs dri snow which is full of air. eighteen inches of two percent sets up to far less base than eighteen inches of twelve percent now which do you think is going to melt faster. and the march snows stick to the mtn. better it doesn't blow away as easily. we all have one thing left to look foward to the season c.d. from the administration this should be interesting at least !!!!!!!!!
 
generally the snow we receive in march has a higher density( hence ) more moisture it takes more warm weather to melt dense snow vs dri snow which is full of air.
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Dry snow is worse for building/maintaining a base, but long term LCC snow density is remarkably consistent by month. Just a touch higher density in November/April, but December through March are essentially equal.
http://www.alta.com/pages/snowhistory.php

Month Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr Monthly Average
Snowfall 28.55" 78.30" 90.13" 95.34" 90.68" 97.52" 72.29" 78.97"
H2O 3.28" 6.59" 7.05" 7.57" 6.94" 7.73" 6.23" 6.48"
Density 11.49% 8.42% 7.82% 7.94% 7.65% 7.93% 8.62% 8.55%

I have been told by a couple of the avalanche researchers that the midwinter snow compresses into a sub-freezing refrigerated core that is very resistant to melting. When that core is gone, the snow is isothermic and the collapse of the last 2-3 feet tends to happen very fast. My speculation in the prior post was that big dumps in December/January might result in a bigger refrigerated core than the same snowfall (assuming same density) in March/April.

This year Alta's average density was 7.56% (February at 5.4% and March at 6.7% were particularly fluffy): below average so that would imply faster meltout than one might expect from the big snow totals. 2004-05 was 9.31%, and no surprise the Utards have been saying that this year's base depths never measured up to that season despite close season snow totals.
 
Deseret weekend.

Evening mainchutes.

Gunsight augusts.

It'll be October soon enough.

Here is a little moon over mainchute, last july 5th.

mainchute.jpg
 
Bobby Danger":2qjs24sl said:
v skined up to the top of collins late monday afternoon slow at work and came down wildcat gully to the base still full as could be. .
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You shouldve called....

M
 
i don't quite know how to type todays activitys ! the skiing was no less than last weekend infact probably a touch better. no fri. skiers or not enough to matter. silver fox first run not skied by anyone all week splended three quarters of an inch champagne corn on a thirty degree morning. the only places it was soft were east facing at eleven twenty in the morning the road off the summit frozen solid down to tower four. there ibailed to east facing. great scott second run. snowbirds closed now so ropes are gone. instead of the normal route there i stopped at the turn dissmounted the skis booted down the ridge thirty yards to a high slot of snow through the rock bands more champagne corn. across andersons to andersons trees stopping at the turn same run as with marc-c last weekend no difference in quality. skiing the bottom of the bird has gotten some what limited. still no issue that can't be dealt with easily skiing all but the last fifty feet of vertical. ( the very bottom) peruivan gulch is still ninty five percent skiable beyond mid-cirque though the ridge is getting bare. south chute is still skiable but some walking would be required to get that far out the ridge. main chute to baldy shoulder to keyhole run three. bailed out of main chute about one hundred fifty yards in . out on the shoulder champagne corn still a clean line down the shoulder to tombstone down to the baldy shoulder to an elongated keyhole from higher than normal. plenty of snow down through keyhole when exiting keyhole you enter highup on a west face the routes are some what limited (black jack) . not alot of diffaculty back around to the top of lower chips for the decent to the base. all of this is done now on a pay as you go system. each ride requires a new ticket . no multi rides no unlimited tram passes that apply to skiing or boarding unlimited tram passes can be purchased for the day at eighteen dollars but skiing or boarding has it's own ticket. no plastic passes will be valid this summer season for skiing or boarding. skiing single run passes are twelve bucks a ride. the past three or four years snowbird has really tried to open up with the summer deals but this year for some unknown lawyer filled reasons people this time of the year are seen as ahigher risk to the policy. when in fact we aren't anyone out there knows the place very well. ](*,) ](*,)
 
12 bucks a ride isn't that terrible a price, though for the dedicated regulars like BobbyD it's going to add up to a big increase over the remaining month or so of worthy skiing.

If the lawyers were really paranoid, they wouldn't allow skis at all. In fact the new policy is a better deal for the less experienced out-of-town visitor there for one day than for the locals who presumably know their way around better. :?
 
I'm sure there's no way to verify, but I'd be interested to know how late-season ops like Snowbird and Mammoth affect their bottom lines. I've always heard that it was mainly used to increase season-pass sales. I wonder what kind of day-pass numbers they get and how much of a loss leader it is to keep a ski area open past, say, late April... when most people start getting out their mountain bikes and golf clubs.
 
i'm looking at three to four hundred more for just this month. there isn't anyone but those who know now! yes if they were that paranoid they wouldn't allow anyone period --- but such a shift in ticket policy :shock: :shock: especially after the past few years of trying to attract more late season people this is definately a step backwards to before admin moved here . six or seven years ago they wouldn't allow anyone period after closing. those were the days of hiking alta to get main chute or anything period. zionist rule in the land of zion. the u.s. freestyle ski team been up on little cloud chair for the past week using the lift all week thank you .... they were there yesterday morning but asked to leave before tram service opened to the public ( will not expose the source on that one only that that comes from the inside ) never mind the photo shoots that have been taking place off little cloud lift. after april there aren't many out of towners so their numbers drop big time . utah doesn't have the same population base to draw from as califorina does . eight thousand for memorial weekend sounds like a nice crowd no way was it even close to that here probably not even half. economics 101 !
 
I'm especially curious from mid-April (when most of the ski areas close due to lack of customers, not lack of snow) to Memorial Day or whenever Snowbird closes down its "official" lift-served ski season. Are they losing money during those weeks -- is the day-pass revenue + the people who buy season tickets because of the spring skiing more than what they're spending on operations? If so, is that for branding reasons -- i.e. they get to claim a really long season (similar to Killington in the old days)?
 
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