Snowmass, CO 3/31/08

[tseeb]

I don't think I have time to write the whole story but I'll post some pictures and say that Snowmass had 12-13" new on top of 6-7" previous day and 6-8" fell during the day. Cirque did not open, but I made it to Hanging Valley twice and totaled 25,650 vertical. I also hit a small knoll opposite Gwyn's that was totally untracked late in the day. I'm wondering if it's worth the logisitics of going to Arapahoe today where they have 3" new today on top of 6" yesterday.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It's amazing this year how the western end of the I-70 corridor is getting dump after dump while the Continental Divide gets the short end of the stick. I'd stay put if I were you and ski the bounty you have there in Aspen until you have to leave. That's what I did in January 2005 when I was a Tahoe during a huge storm. On my last day I spent an hour digging out the car and left at 1PM to drive home to L.A., but the intervening 3 hours of deep pow were still worth it.

 

[tseeb]

I'm now in airport. Last night we had a two hour dinner in Edwards waiting for Vail Pass to open. There was a 50+ car accident westbound with a fatality that began with truck jack-knifing. Eastbound was closed for about four hours and alternates also had jack-knifed trucks. It took me two hours to drive the 45 miles to Dillon where we had room to use or lose. A-Basin for three hours today was great.

 

[TRam]

great shots! looked close to epic. How was the snow densisty? Sorry to hear about your I 70 ordeal that sounded nasty. Got PIcs from Abasin?

 

[tseeb]

Snow was very light on High Alpine, Hanging Valley and Big Burn and heavier and more wind-affected on Sam's Knob. Our first ride up Big Burn, the guy we we riding with said groomed runs had 8 inches of powder and ungroomed was closer to 18. I made one run with my wife where she took Dallas Freeway and I skied the ungroomed. Next run I exited Big Burn skiers right onto K2 gully where patrol has just dropped the rope. The chute was good but too short, then I followed a traverse to High Alpine, crossing many untracked slopes. I started down The Edge and thought about following ski patrol down Baby Ruth, but found plenty of untracked on left side of run. I hiked to Hanging Valley next run and got tips from somebody whose e-mail starts with powderplease. He was the one who launched the rock and I got his e-mail to send him pictures. I followed him and his friend through Frog Pond Glades and Wierd Woods before coming out on cliffs . He told me to go down ridge a couple of hundred feet to find the untracked. It was steep and deep for about 20 turns into some big trees. It was a long traverse back to Alpine Springs lift. I called my wife who was supposed to meet me at Gwyn's. Since she was still on lift, I took one more on High Alpine where I found untracked alongside Reidar's that got better near bottom.

After lunch, my wife joined my on High Alpine where we took Green Cabin, the only intermediate run. Signs at the bottom said expert only. My wife struggled with flat 500-1000 foot hike to downhill part of run and then struggled further in 12-18" on run. I tried to give her powder tips while floating in some of the deepest of the day on the left side. It took her about 30 minutes to get to flatter, semi-packed part of run below Gwyn's where I left her for another lap on Hanging Valley. I got to High Alpine for a run on Showcase where tracks from morning where almost filled in. I cut left toward Gwyn's and after bouncing off a covered fence, found untracked knoll at almost 3 pm.

On the way down, I went just below a closed sign and ended up in mostly untracked woods to skier's left on Green Cabin than got me to Coney Glade lift. I skied down run's to Sam's Knob lift. From the top I went farther into Campground than ski patrol would have approved at that time, but found bumps on Wildcat were still showing. For last run, I went with local who approved of my choice of Powerline Glades which are off Big Burn chair and overlooked by powder hounds.

 

[ChrisC]

I have a pretty favorable impression of Snowmass. It surpassed a lot of my expectations. After Vail, I think it is one the best all things to all people places for Colorado.

However, 12-18" might really be too much for some of its intermediate runs.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Green Cabin, the only intermediate run....with flat 500-1000 foot hike to downhill part of run

That makes Green Cabin an outstanding area to ski mostly untracked snow on a wide open not intimidating slope with little competition IMHO. Green Cabin was one of my few powder successes back in 1980 with a comparable 12-18 inches of new fluff. If she can't enjoy powder there, your wife needs some lessons before trying any more.

I'm not in agreement with ChrisC's overall assessment of Snowmass. The blues are in general very flat, with Green Cabin and the Burn being the exceptions with more normal intermediate pitch. The expert terrain is a big pain to get to, hard to get many runs in a day there.

The upshot is an overall recommendation not unlike the discussion we just had about Solitude. A great place on powder days because the good stuff doesn't get tracked out very fast. Somewhat tedious otherwise.

 

[tseeb]

Sam's Knob chair is fast and steep and Campground, while still a slow chair, is not as long as it used to be. I remember it had great views of Snowmass Peak which along with most of the Aspen scenery like the Maroon Bells was not visible on our trip.

We only had 5-10 people pass us during the long time we were on the upper part of the run. I thought my wife could ski powder as she followed me earlier this year though low angle trees between Sky Chair and Ridge Run at Heavenly, but that was only 3-4" new. She also went down Motts Canyon once and Dipper Woods a couple of times in 6" but couldn't handle the deeper stuff especially after walk at 11,775'.

She tried getting lesson that afternoon at Snowmass, but all the instructors were tied up with Disabled Veterans who were skiing there including some that were bombing the powder under High Alpine chair. She did get some tips from instructor whose assignment had ended and she rode the chair with including "Don't be afraid to fall" and "What is the worst that could happen?" He left our my favorite powder tip: "Speed is your friend".

What is the best way to get powder lessons? Is it to be at Kirkwood and arrange a lesson on an uncrowded day after or during a storm? Or would signing up for a one, two or three-day women's clinic be a better way and hope they find some fresh snow? Or hit Targhee in Jan. when the cold temps may be too much for her?

 

[Tony Crocker]

All 3 of those are reasonable ideas for powder lessons. If you go to Utah Powder Mt. would be a good choice for unintimidating and non-competitive powder slopes. It also goes without saying that she should rent fat skis.

 

[TRam]

tseeb-Spent a few hours with my mom(56) at Alta and snowbasin in powder. Can be very diffcult to teach, she is on Fat Loves and they float like snowboards. I couldn't get here to charge turns, she would try to turn up the hill as soon as she got moving (2-3 turns in). I tried to tell her that speed gives you more control. I think like most things it takes time and being put in positions where you have to do it. If you are not having fun then do it another day. Women can be really hard to teach IMHO although my wife loved sking powder at steamboat right of the bat. Maybe a great place to learn as well. Gentle sloopes and nice amenities. I have learned that most women really value that more then the killer terrian.

 

[tseeb]

Thanks for the ideas. My wife is on fatter skis than me and weighs 80 lbs less so she should float better, but was also turning up the hill too much and was skiing way too stiff for powder. She does pretty good on steeps without bumps or exposure and on up to 6" of powder. We will think about Powder Mountain as my friend can get a timeshare very close to there.

 

[egieszl]

I have a pretty favorable impression of Snowmass. It surpassed a lot of my expectations. After Vail, I think it is one the best all things to all people places for Colorado.

However, 12-18" might really be too much for some of its intermediate runs.

Chris let me give you a little hint. Vail sucks. Snowmass beats Vail hands down. When the locals of Aspen/Snowmass say "Vail Sucks" the people at Vail think it is just a competitive spirit, but the truth is they really mean it. The people who like Vail can stay there.

So here is why Vail sucks.

- It is super crowded because of its location. A 45 minute line is a regular event, but at Aspen/Snowmass you'll be lucky to find any lift lines and 10 minutes would be exceptionally long.

- Powder... what powder at Vail? On a powder day you'll be lucky to get two runs. It's gone within 90 minutes. At Aspen/Snowmass you'll find untracked stuff all-day and for days after a major storm.

- There is nothing difficult in Vail. Zilch. They actually groom a double diamond run in Vail. At Snowmass we've got a great variety of terrain including the very difficult Burn Side Cliffs and Hanging Valley Wall.

- Cat tracks are every where. A complete run without a cat track section is almost unheard of on the front size of Vail.

- The Bowls face south. On a typical day after a storm the snow turns rotten within hours because of the high amount of traffic and the south exposure.

I could go on and on. The ONLY thing that is better at Vail is on mountain dining. However, that too is a very crowded experience that can be very frustrating. Beaver Creek is actually a better mountain than Vail.

Aspen/Snowmass is the best kept secret in Colorado. Four very different mountains on one lift ticket and Snowmass is arguably the best mountain in Colorado.

Yes, I ski Snowmass a lot. I skied more than a million vertical feet this year and 34 out of 38 days were at Snowmass.

 

[ChrisC]

I have a pretty favorable impression of Snowmass. It surpassed a lot of my expectations. After Vail, I think it is one the best all things to all people places for Colorado.

However, 12-18" might really be too much for some of its intermediate runs.

Chris let me give you a little hint. Vail sucks. Snowmass beats Vail hands down. When the locals of Aspen/Snowmass say "Vail Sucks" the people at Vail think it is just a competitive spirit, but the truth is they really mean it. The people who like Vail can stay there.

So here is why Vail sucks.

- It is super crowded because of its location. A 45 minute line is a regular event, but at Aspen/Snowmass you'll be lucky to find any lift lines and 10 minutes would be exceptionally long.

- Powder... what powder at Vail? On a powder day you'll be lucky to get two runs. It's gone within 90 minutes. At Aspen/Snowmass you'll find untracked stuff all-day and for days after a major storm.

- There is nothing difficult in Vail. Zilch. They actually groom a double diamond run in Vail. At Snowmass we've got a great variety of terrain including the very difficult Burn Side Cliffs and Hanging Valley Wall.

- Cat tracks are every where. A complete run without a cat track section is almost unheard of on the front size of Vail.

- The Bowls face south. On a typical day after a storm the snow turns rotten within hours because of the high amount of traffic and the south exposure.

I could go on and on. The ONLY thing that is better at Vail is on mountain dining. However, that too is a very crowded experience that can be very frustrating. Beaver Creek is actually a better mountain than Vail.

Aspen/Snowmass is the best kept secret in Colorado. Four very different mountains on one lift ticket and Snowmass is arguably the best mountain in Colorado.

Yes, I ski Snowmass a lot. I skied more than a million vertical feet this year and 34 out of 38 days were at Snowmass.

I agree with a lot of your points. Very correct and relevant. But I think it is hard to go wrong at Vail. It's not gnar, but it does a good job. It's a little splitting hairs.

 

[TRam]

Never ski Vail on a weekend, BC is better option. Vail on a weekeday with powder is a real treat. YOu can find untracked at 4 in the afternoon. Some of the back bowls faces are plenty steep ~40 is my impression and the run for a good 1200 vert. Only been to snowmass for 2 days you have a real good mountain there. To say Vail sucks is like saying Jackson sucks or Snowbird sucks, they all have pros and cons.

 

[ChrisC]

I'm not in agreement with ChrisC's overall assessment of Snowmass. The blues are in general very flat, with Green Cabin and the Burn being the exceptions with more normal intermediate pitch. The expert terrain is a big pain to get to, hard to get many runs in a day there.

The upshot is an overall recommendation not unlike the discussion we just had about Solitude. A great place on powder days because the good stuff doesn't get tracked out very fast. Somewhat tedious otherwise.

OK. Fair.

I agree that some of the intermediate terrain skis on the flatter side of blue. But Burn and Sam's Knob is prime cruise-control type stuff. Naked Lady has some nice pitches. Campground if you want to steop it up a notch.

And Snowmass vs. Solitude. One place has turned itself into a high-speed lift machine, the other made $$ with an Intrawest Disney village yet could not drop a dime into its infrastructure. I think Snowmass is superior in every way to Solitude. But maybe snowfall.

Solitude is at most 500-600' of fun....with a 40-60 min slow double return.

And Snowmass has some nice expert areas....thought I would include a shot or two. It's great stuff. Solitude is not this good.


Cirque - anyone? I was getting some North Face Crested Butte vibes from this.

Or Hanging Valley. This is solid expert terrain. Great stuff.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Vail averages 356 inches, Snowmass 273. I have actually not skied a big powder day at Vail, so I can't comment on how bad its feeding frenzy is. But from other big places like Whistler or AltaBird, I suspect TRam is correct that the powder is there if you know where to go. And if you're there for a week the strategy of Beaver Creek on weekends mitigates crowds.

Snowmass I have had 4 substantial powder days (I got lucky with the small sample size here) though 2 of them were in 1980 so I was exhausted by noon and back on the groomed after lunch. Hanging Valley is excellent terrain, but in average snow years it opens around late January. In low snow years it will also resemble Crested Butte in terms of how much of the steeps are open.

The 2004 trip in spring conditions reduced Snowmass's appeal. We had to wait until noon for the steeps to soften, we got exactly one run each in Hanging Valley and Cirque (where the steep is short and the runout long) before they closed at 2:45PM. I probably should have gone for the longer runs on Campground that day, though it probably would have been sticky at the bottom. And at low elevation it probably only gets about 150 inches, unfortunate because Campground's pitch would be good in powder.

Aspen/Snowmass is an interesting ski destination. All of the mountains are some what specialized in terms of terrain. You decide at the start of each day what kind of skiing you want to do most. But no question, lift/slope crowding is almost never an issue.

I still don't get the 500-600 comment about Solitude; the frontside lifts are 1400 and 1600 of fairly continuous vertical. I might spend a higher percentage of a powder day in fresh tracks at Solitude than I would at Snowmass, just because of the time on the runouts and extra lifts needed to get back to Hanging Valley. Not to mention 50% more snowfall. Solitude vs. Snowmass is apples and oranges, but I'm not sure which I'd take overall.

 

[007]

I just spent a GREAT week @ Aspen/Snowmass - first trip there. I'm an advanced skiier and can get down double diamonds effectively, if not stylishly. Stayed slopside in Snowmass. Had 2 sunny days, 2 mixed days and 2.5 days of boot-to-knee deep powder (1 @ Ajax and 1.5 @ Snowmass). Here are my impressions:

AJAX: totally overrated - only good for low intermediates and bumpers. All steep stuff is short + bumped up. Ruthies has the only interesting non-bumped runs. Copper and Spar gulch are brutal high-traffic deathtraps. I can see why celebrities like it here: all the the blue and single black runs off the top are short and have little pitch and are very boring. It's a bumper's heaven though but I don't ski bumps all day. One day was enough for me - will not likely ever go back. Town has good bars but most restaraunts are too much $$$ for me

HIGHLANDS: great fall line crusing over most of the mountain. Oly bowl, Temerity and Steeplechase are seriously tough + challenging. Did not hike Highlands Bowl due to snowboarder death within soon after it opened the only day I was there. You can rack up vertical faster here than most ski areas. You can hit every run in 2 days. Great scenery

SNOWMASS: a fantastic all-around mountain that has every kind of run, great lifts, and is super-convenient. Outside of W/B, Beaver Creek and Heavenly, I'd say The Big Burn and Sheer Bliss are the best crusiers in N.America. How can you argue with 2000" vert per HSQ lap? Hanging Valley is diverse + tough. Cirque gives Snomwass a 'mountain' feel. Never waited more than 1 minute in a lift line in 4 days. Would rate Snowmass in my top 5 ski areas after W/B, Heavenly, Lake Louise and Jackson Hole.