Sublime Snowbasin

[Evren]

The phrase, "best day ever" is thrown around these days

I just know that between a repeat of Friday at Snowbasin and a freebie heli-ski day... I'd go for the repeat.

It was another set of three just like two weeks ago: A decent Thursday, a come-from-behind winner Friday, and Saturday... with other pesky skiers.

Thursday was slated to be ho-hum. A sun-baked hard crust underneath, with a few light inches on top that was no help in the lower elevations but just enough to be a pleasure up higher. I forget, because Friday happened. But I did have time to take pictures. Even of trees and stuff. This is mostly in No Name, in the afternoon. Which I made a point of skiing because I hardly ever do, always being lured into untracked in Easter Bowl on the hike up. I also made some observations that would prove useful the next day. Mainly to avoid the steep stuff because the hard-crust was not a good base for the light snow on top to grab onto, making it almost as important a factor as compass exposure. Anyway, the pictures:

That's completely untracked in that last picture, no photoshop involved.

Friday morning, Snowbasin showed a big fat zero new in the report. But there were 4-6 in the snowstake picture by 9am and a lush green on the radar. That's all I needed to know. I made it to Snowbasin at an ungodly early 10am. Snowing since the valley but just big fat flakes after the Snowbasin turn-off. As three cars in a row made it down the last stretch, I saw the car behind me careen left-and-right, taking out a couple of road signs and come to a rest in the middle of the road with its roadkill underneath. I knew everyone was safe. If I didn't, would I have stopped? Moving on. Downshift instead of braking on the downhill, people!

John Paul, as usual. But holy $hit: no one on the lift, no one on the mountain, no tracks, no nuthin'. Which brings me to what makes such weekdays at Snowbasin so special: instead of timing gate-drops and out-strategizing others, you just ski... acres and acres of untracked wherever you turn. You just have to know your own priorities and what you like, never mind staying one step ahead of others. So I did that. Boot to shin-deep, light as feathers, all day long. No lunch-break. No stopping to take pictures. Mt.Allen tram was running empty and No Name was probably all that. But who has time to hike 5 minutes when same or similar is just skier's right of the lift? I still took a principled shot at it. I again was lured into Easter Bowl. Made it back to JP at 3:58 after a couple of Strawberry runs (also heavenly). And took these pictures at around 4:15pm, knowing that there was no lift to catch. These are all named runs. On the map and everything. I probably made what few tracks you see (there were a few other people)

Heck, it *was* the best day ever.

Today(Saturday) I will write-up in a reply. I will also put the Friday pictures in a reply, because us plebes are limited to 10 pictures per post.

 

[Evren]

Here are the pictures from Friday, so y'all can stop clamoring for them:

Not particularly interesting in and of themselves but I find it incredible that this is how things look at closing time on two pretty obvious runs.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

instead of timing gate-drops and out-strategizing others, you just ski... acres and acres of untracked wherever you turn. You just have to know your own priorities and what you like, never mind staying one step ahead of others.

I'm surprised that no one has munched on that bucket of chum :stir:.

Where do you stand on buying a Snowbasin season pass for next year?

 

[Evren]

>I'm surprised that no one has munched on that bucket of chum

All I can do is provoke... It is up to the Alta fan boys to take the bait

>Where do you stand on buying a Snowbasin season pass for next year?

For me, it is a no-brainer. I have resort credit to cover a pass, due to the skis that fell off the gondola.

For everyone else... I still think it is a great deal. Between last Sat and the end of the season, you can get a full pass that will cover the remainder of this season, this summer, and next winter -- for $650. Or with blackouts, for $450.

This past year was a perfect storm for Snowbasin. Their snowmaking failed (it was a pump at the bottom of a 2000ft. well) and nature not only did not deliver, it did not deliver specifically to the Northern Wasatch, and not when it counted in the early season. That is unlikely to repeat.

The issue with distance is legitimate. The difference between a 30min drive and a 60min drive is not 30 minutes. It can mean many fewer days on the slopes if there are other commitments for the day. That is something I struggle with. And the reason why I usually get their pass every other year.

As for Snowbasin somehow being an inferior product, I strongly disagree. It is only an inferior product to the people who have invested much time into figuring out the intricacies of Alta, or plunked down $1700 for an Alta-Bird pass and need to justify it somehow.

 

[Marc_C]

As for Snowbasin somehow being an inferior product, I strongly disagree.

As do I and pretty much everyone else who has skied there. Where it does suffer is on those days/times of the year when aspect and elevation conspire to decrease the quality of the skiing, but inferior from a terrain and crowding standpoint? Hardly.

It is only an inferior product to the people who have invested much time into figuring out the intricacies of Alta,...

Actually I find Snowbasin a bit more difficult to figure out since there appear to be more terrain traps than at my usual areas. In comparison, Alta is where it's relatively easy to "figure out the intricacies."

...or plunked down $1700 for an Alta-Bird pass and need to justify it somehow.

More chum? You get an awful lot of terrain for that $1700. It's also a awful lot of money all at once. When I discovered that most of my Snowbird days were in the spring, which coincided with the price going to $1700, I stopped buying the combined pass. It was a no-brainer at $1250 that first few years. What has really bugged me is that both Bird and Alta have been at ~$900-$1000 individually for the past decade while the combined pass has gone up almost every year. I really consider it price gouging at this point.

But again, who's really saying that Snowbasin is an "inferior product"?

 

[baldyskier]

Evren, Thanks for the report and pics. Snowbasin can be really special when you catch it on the right day, which I've done 2 of 3 times now.

Marc, Thanks for bringing up legit. points, agreeing where appropriate, and keeping it civil. I for one appreciate the measured response. This kind of discussion really adds to the forum, imo.

 

[Evren]

there appear to be more terrain traps than at my usual areas.

I assume you mean "blocked by trees" rather than by the pitch?
If Snowbasin ever asked people to chip in to remove or thin some of the scrub oak in the off-piste -- I'd gladly volunteer. There are many potential good lines that are ruined by a few thick strands of that. From what little I know, they own Strawberry but only their footprint in Needles and JP. The rest is Forest Service. I don't know if scrub oak has any champions or indispensable benefit to the land?

And as a more general point, why is it that anything remotely facing the Southern half of the compass around here has no conifers, just scrub oak? Will they not survive or is it just that they can not get a foothold? If it is the latter, humans can lend a hand.

On the price issue... we've covered this terrain before but: I am not opposed to paying that much. It just seems a bit cruel to be then limited to one canyon, however bountiful, when there is such variety in the area. And as much as LCC shines in the winter, if summer operations are important to you as it is to me, you can't do just LCC. Snowbasin, Deer Valley, Sundance really shine for lift-assisted mtn biking.

 

[Marc_C]

there appear to be more terrain traps than at my usual areas.

I assume you mean "blocked by trees" rather than by the pitch?

That's partially the case, but I've also encountered depressions, hollows, and intervening ridge-lets. I've noticed this in the Middle Bowl area at mid-mountain. I'm sure some of it is due to my admittedly sparse mental map of the area, but comparing my Basin knowledge based on X days there with what my Alta knowledge was after the same X number of days at Alta, I've encountered these terrain trap issues far more at Snow Basin. I just found getting around at Alta and getting to specific terrain far more easily understood and obvious.

And as a more general point, why is it that anything remotely facing the Southern half of the compass around here has no conifers, just scrub oak? Will they not survive or is it just that they can not get a foothold? If it is the latter, humans can lend a hand.

Conifers need more water than the scrubbies and that south aspect is drier by just enough that they can't do well. Also, the elevations at Snow Basin are a bit too low for conifers to be really happy - in part because the microclimate is somewhat too warm here in the high plains, which also contributes to the dryness challenge.

On the price issue... we've covered this terrain before but: I am not opposed to paying that much. It just seems a bit cruel to be then limited to one canyon, however bountiful, when there is such variety in the area. And as much as LCC shines in the winter, if summer operations are important to you as it is to me, you can't do just LCC. Snowbasin, Deer Valley, Sundance really shine for lift-assisted mtn biking.

My summer activities don't depend on lifts operating.

 

[Tony Crocker]

This past year was a perfect storm for Snowbasin. Their snowmaking failed (it was a pump at the bottom of a 2000ft. well) and nature not only did not deliver, it did not deliver specifically to the Northern Wasatch, and not when it counted in the early season. That is unlikely to repeat.

The reality is that Snowbasin averages 309 inches and Alta 531. Throw in the superior snow preservation from altitude and exposure and I don't think it's a difficult call at all where to have a season pass if you live in Utah. LCC's climate makes a consistent gigantic difference in early and late season (important if you're a resident) and even during mid-January to mid-March core of the season there will be many storms that produce powder skiing in LCC and not enough for that at Snowbasin.

I share the enthusiasm for Snowbasin's terrain quality and have no doubt whatsoever that the top powder days there are sublime, and qualitatively superior to most of LCC's due to lack of competition. Nonetheless there are far fewer of them.

What has really bugged me is that both Bird and Alta have been at ~$900-$1000 individually for the past decade while the combined pass has gone up almost every year. I really consider it price gouging at this point.

As a tangential point, from what I've read the Mountain Collective privileges will apply to combined AltaBird tickets.

 

[Evren]

The reality is that Snowbasin averages 309 inches and Alta 531

I know you take this stuff very seriously but I do not recall how it is that you know Snowbasin's self-reported 400 is not accurate? The only place where I see that number is utah.com which groups Snowbasin with Wolf & Beaver -- hardly precise. And that same chart has Alta at 482. And PC resorts at 226. All quite a bit lower than the resorts' numbers.

It's not so much the late season but the early season that can be a problem. One can always scrounge cheap day tickets in April. And really, we are much more sated by that time. Not getting things going Nov into Dec does get frustrating (as it did this year).

But in general, I definitely don't mind the days when Alta gets 2' and Snowbasin just 1'. In fact, I downright prefer that to when the numbers are flipped.

 

[Marc_C]

What has really bugged me is that both Bird and Alta have been at ~$900-$1000 individually for the past decade while the combined pass has gone up almost every year. I really consider it price gouging at this point.

As a tangential point, from what I've read the Mountain Collective privileges will apply to combined AltaBird tickets.

Yes, but 2 free plus half off for a bunch of places I don't go doesn't do it for me, and $1700 (or will it be $1800 next season?) is still a bunch of cash. It's about equal to my annual premium for natural disaster insurance on the house.

Edit: now that I've reread exactly what the Mountain Collective deal encompasses, then yes, it is semi-attractive to use it for Snowbird discounts, cutting the Bird $85 day ticket by 50% after the two free days are used. If purchased, it also might get me to Aspen/Snowmass, and/or Jackson Hole, with Mammoth, Squaw Valley/Alpine Meadows, and Whistler Blackcomb being far less likely. However, my Alta pass allows an upgrade to a combined AltaBird pass for any given day for only $33. The Snowbird spring pass this year was ~$500 starting March 1st and is $349 starting April 1st.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Not saying the Mountain Collective works for everybody. I myself am just renewing my Mammoth MVP but paying the extra $90 to get half price privileges at the Mountain Collective resorts. Squaw works similar to Mammoth, the highest price completely unrestricted pass gets Mountain Collective privileges; cheaper passes don't. I don't know what Alta or Snowbird do, but those buying should ask.

I know you take this stuff very seriously but I do not recall how it is that you know Snowbasin's self-reported 400 is not accurate?

The source of data at both Alta and Snowbasin is patrol on a monthly basis, 228 months in Alta's case and 174 months for Snowbasin. If you would rather believe a round number pulled out of the air by a marketing director, you're welcome to do that. I always say use common sense; look around at the snowpack; the difference between Alta's and Snowbasin's is not small.

But in general, I definitely don't mind the days when Alta gets 2' and Snowbasin just 1'.

In general it's the days when Alta gets 12 and Snowbasin gets 6 that are more relevant. Especially if the subsurface at Snowbasin is a coral reef from the low altitude and sunny exposure when it's still mostly packed powder in LCC.

I'll reiterate that I like Snowbasin a lot, recommend it to visitors and often try to get in a day there if I'm in Utah but not staying up at Iron Blosam. Mid-season destination visitors are on a fixed schedule, most often when conditions are decent everywhere, and why not enjoy Snowbasin's excellent terrain and non-competitive ambience? But a local is paying a fixed price, gets to cherry pick powder days and has a choice between areas with 4-5 months of consistently good skiing every season vs. areas with 2-3 months.

 

[Admin]

Not saying the Mountain Collective works for everybody. I myself am just renewing my Mammoth MVP but paying the extra $90 to get half price privileges at the Mountain Collective resorts. Squaw works similar to Mammoth, the highest price completely unrestricted pass gets Mountain Collective privileges; cheaper passes don't. I don't know what Alta or Snowbird do, but those buying should ask.

Neither resort really has a tiered pass structure. You're either a paying adult, or you're not, frequent customer cards notwithstanding.

One benefit of Snowbird's inclusion in The Mountain Collective next season may be the inequity demonstrated this season whereby a $1000 Alta-only passholder got Mountain Collective benefits, but a $1750 AltaBird passholder did not.

 

[Evren]

The source of data at both Alta and Snowbasin is patrol on a monthly basis, 228 months in Alta's case and 174 months for Snowbasin. If you would rather believe a round number pulled out of the air by a marketing director, you're welcome to do that. I always say use common sense; look around at the snowpack; the difference between Alta's and Snowbasin's is not small.

No, I can believe that. Is there a way to access those numbers online?
Some of my discounting of Snowbasin's disadvantage possibly stems from having moved here in late '07 and formed first impressions on consecutive big snow years.

And if money were no issue, I'd probably get a pass at Alta, Snowbasin, Deer Valley, Canyons(for proximity) each year. So, we are in agreement -- except possibly regarding Deer Valley.
As it is, I will have Snowbasin & DV-midweek next year. And maybe an Alta goldcard.

 

[Admin]

No, I can believe that. Is there a way to access those numbers online?

Sure: http://www.bestsnow.net
:lol:

Tony goes to great lengths to beg for, bribe for, obtain, assemble and analyze that data. It's not publicly available other than the method by which Tony shares it.

 

[Bobby Danger]

the snowbird alta pass is the bastard pass . neither resort wants anything to really do with it , but they recognize the money that's to be gained from it . certainly not the value pass they intended it to be in the beginning but still of quite a nice value if you live here

 

[Evren]

The only picture I took on Saturday. Earlier, I was traversing out in Sisters Bowl with two guys in front of me. The rope had dropped maybe 5 minutes ago. The sun had barely cleared the ridge. There were no tracks below us. They came to a stop. One asked the other, "Where do you want to drop in?" ...and that's all it took for me to get in between them and drop right into bliss.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

the snowbird alta pass is the bastard pass. neither resort wants anything to really do with it

Can you explain?

 

[Bobby Danger]

the fact that neither resort gets full price for their share of the pass , leads to ill feelings about selling it . in the beginning of sales time in the life of this pass that was done to show some cooperation between resorts. the mngmt. at both these places doesn't really care for one another . but as time has gone on the price has slowly gone up every year , this pass has the most inflation of any pass in the state . and still no benes are given with it on purchase . eventually it will be at full price for each resort , one can see that in the yearly markup . at that point it would probably be prudent to purchase each seperatly to get some of the benefits that accompany each resort. this pass is only sold as a marketing scheme. but dam thats one good mrkting scheme to a person that can travel across the country side and take full advantage of it .

 

[Tony Crocker]

this pass is only sold as a marketing scheme. but dam that's one good mrkting scheme to a person that can travel across the country side and take full advantage of it .

As a local I would be pretty sold on the freedom to cross back and forth without thinking about price based upon each day's conditions, terrain openings etc. But the MarcC equation now shows you could buy 22 day upgrades for the price difference in the passes. At some point the inflation of the combined pass vs. individual stops making any sense. 50% markup seems fair to me, and that point has already been passed.