Sugarloaf to extend season
- Thread starter loafasaur
- Start date
icelanticskier
New member
if anyone can do it, the loaf certainly can. that place gets lots of late season snow and holds it better than most. last may, les and i went up may 6,7,8 and skinned and skied all three days with no one around. we could ski all 2800 vert in any direction we wanted right to the car with no bare spots. they easily could've stayed open till memorial day last year. we skied mount washington on the 4th day, may 9th and the coverage paled in comparison to the loaf.
i guess 110 inches in april will do that to a place. can't wait, gonna be a maine spring this year.
gulf o slides tomorrow
rog
i guess 110 inches in april will do that to a place. can't wait, gonna be a maine spring this year.
gulf o slides tomorrow
rog
It's nice to see a ski area management with a positive attitude. But here are the last 11 April snowfall totals for Sugarloaf:
36.00
16.00
8.00
20.00
0.00
18.50
7.00
6.00
7.00
15.00
107.00
I wouldn't want to place a large wager on much of the mountain being skiable in May.
36.00
16.00
8.00
20.00
0.00
18.50
7.00
6.00
7.00
15.00
107.00
I wouldn't want to place a large wager on much of the mountain being skiable in May.
I only have last 4 years for percents open. Last year was obviously great.
41% open April 15, 2006
93% open April 10, 2005
81% open April 10, 2004
No question Sugarloaf spring snow preservation is as good as anyone lift served in the East. But it's still only 4,000 feet and that snow melts fast in April if there's no new. I think they will work to preserve a handful of runs and maybe be 10% open first weekend of may, barring a big April like last year.
41% open April 15, 2006
93% open April 10, 2005
81% open April 10, 2004
No question Sugarloaf spring snow preservation is as good as anyone lift served in the East. But it's still only 4,000 feet and that snow melts fast in April if there's no new. I think they will work to preserve a handful of runs and maybe be 10% open first weekend of may, barring a big April like last year.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":3025mlhb said:
The percentage number of runs can be misleading. I've explained why elsewhere. From my 2 April visits, the low number of runs open were primarily due to lift closure, not lack of snow.
The only thing that was really toast at these visits were the Snowfields, pretty much everything at mid-mountain was in great shape. I believe that the two weekends I indicated might have been closing weekends, if you remove the snowfield and the runs at the base and below, I would guess that over 80% of the acreage was open or had amazing coverage and was skiable (but official closed due to access issues).
Patrick's closing weekends were 2-3 weeks earlier than what's being promised this year. That's a big difference considering the rapid rate of normal eastern meltdown at that time of year.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":yq0v3zlp said:
Not sure where Sugarloaf is compared to previous years in term of snow accumulation and snowpack, but I read on ZS that Massif du Sud is having a record year with 776cm. MDS isn't that far (as the crow flies) to the Loaf. There wasn't any real thaw once you hit the higher latitudes this year, really exceptional once again this year.
Sugarloaf is currently only 79% open. The 194 inches season snowfall (much less than MDS) is 135% of normal, not in the league of the near record numbers in Quebec.
I like Mt. St. Anne's prospects for May skiing this season a lot better than Sugarloaf's.
I like Mt. St. Anne's prospects for May skiing this season a lot better than Sugarloaf's.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":3ecozh2r said:
Again, not awake of the specifics, but I'm a bit surprised by that number.
Wishful thinking, but it's looks like the odds of May skiing in Quebec is zero. Mt. Ste-Anne is closing on April 27th.Tony Crocker":3ecozh2r said:
MSA and Tremblant have a fixed closing dates and MSS is shutting again this year in April for work on the Waterpark (rumour has it). :roll: This might be really pathetic this season if people still have snow on their lawns and ski areas will be closing. So the only skiing on this side of the border will probably without lifts.
Sugarloaf must have a weird microclimate, as evidenced by that sequence of 11 Aprils. A 107 inch month at an area that averages only 175 per season is very unusual. That's Baldy-like volatility, which I do not see anywhere else in the Northeast.
Patrick
Well-known member
Last April was very unusual (as this year north of the St.Lawrence). I recall seeing Whiteface's numbers last Spring also being weird in a good way.Tony Crocker":3be90cye said:
I was just curious about that Loaf 79%. I did a quick check on the trail report. Of the 28 trails closed, 19 of them are glades and snowfields. I'm just speculating, but some of them might be closed due to icy/dangerous conditions (from my observation in NH) and not lack of snow. Glades (0% open) aren't a main feature of Sugarloaf, remove them and the snowfield trails (20% open) from the equation and you're up to 92%.
Sugarloaf has a LOT of cover this year. Check their base depths. Check the northeast snow depths. Boyne's reporting has been accurate. The reason the snowfields and trees are off-limits is because of ice, not lack of cover. The 3/15 storm left up to an inch of freezing rain/ice but didn't actually wash off the cover, just glued it in place. Where it hasn't been groomed is quite nasty. There's snow up top, the ice covering it just hasn't thawed. After that storm, Boyne groomed virtually everything (even Upper Winter's and Bubblecuffer) to spread out this solid base for April use. The 3/20 storm should be virtually all snow at the Loaf and that will soften up the remaining ice, meaning the trees and fields will reopen--and reestablish the bump runs.
Sure, it's the east. One 50F deluge changes everything. But they are by far in the best shape headed into April in many, many years. May is alaways a crapshoot, but they're looking real good to go right through April.
US Nationals this week. Reggae comin' right up!
Sure, it's the east. One 50F deluge changes everything. But they are by far in the best shape headed into April in many, many years. May is alaways a crapshoot, but they're looking real good to go right through April.
US Nationals this week. Reggae comin' right up!
That's a helpful local post. Baldy has had some of the same issues this year. Garry was just up there after last weekend's 6 inches (very light and much of it blown off), and Thunder is still hardpack with sections closed.
135% is still a very good year, so Sugarloaf's snowpack ought to last a couple of weeks longer than whatever normal is.
It's certainly disappointing that someone in Quebec doesn't step up to the plate to take advantage of the great year up there though.
135% is still a very good year, so Sugarloaf's snowpack ought to last a couple of weeks longer than whatever normal is.
It's certainly disappointing that someone in Quebec doesn't step up to the plate to take advantage of the great year up there though.
Geoff
New member
Tony:
You have the typical westerners complete lack of understanding of eastern skiing. In the east, snow comes from snowguns. The natural snowpack doesn't really contribute all that much. On anything with any kind of pitch that had snowmaking and continuous resurfacing, there's a good 10 feet of impervious base. Sugarloaf had thaws. They had to resurface things like Skidder quite a few times just to get them open. The things that melt early are the flat stuff that doesn't need all that manmade base to get it open. At Sugarloaf, you'll be walking the runouts on the flat lower mountain when there's still stupid amounts of snow on the steeper stuff.
You have the typical westerners complete lack of understanding of eastern skiing. In the east, snow comes from snowguns. The natural snowpack doesn't really contribute all that much. On anything with any kind of pitch that had snowmaking and continuous resurfacing, there's a good 10 feet of impervious base. Sugarloaf had thaws. They had to resurface things like Skidder quite a few times just to get them open. The things that melt early are the flat stuff that doesn't need all that manmade base to get it open. At Sugarloaf, you'll be walking the runouts on the flat lower mountain when there's still stupid amounts of snow on the steeper stuff.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":28v1d4gd said:
Yes, it is. And each year I've been bitching about it online. :x
What I like to call the "winners" and "losers".
What I called a winner, is a ski area that goes the limit or pushes back it closing date. I would say that Wildcat was very impressive all season as Sugarbush the previous two years.
Losers. Ski areas that have fixed dates and nothing is going to make them changed their mind about extending the season. Places that don't put skiing first. These are generally big conglomerates.
Ah yes, Quebec's 3 main candidates for late season skiing are part of conglomerates. Two (Tremblant and MSA) of them Western based (Intrawest and RCR), the other is MSSI. Every year Tremblant and MSA could easily extend their season by a couple weeks if it was uniquely based on their snow.
There is probably a lot of wishful thinking about extending the season for some other areas. LeMassif re-opened last Spring to add an extra week. Massif du Sud is having a record year and trying to move beyond the local market. I'll kept you guys posted.
Loafasaur confirmed what I thought about that 79% and the coverage at the Loaf.
Geoff reaffirms what I know about the East. Nice Geoff, you nailed it (again)!!!
Sugarloaf has 651 acres of designated trails and glades, 1400 acres boundary-to-boundary (you locals can tell me how much of that is usable), and 490 acres under snowmaking.
I am in agreement that a manmade base of X feet will last longer than a natural base of the same X feet. Big Bear, with its usual 2-4 feet of mostly manmade will keep a higher percentage of runs open this season than Baldy (probably maxed at 5 feet) for that reason. But in the big years Baldy's natural base does get to 8-10 feet and then it will last longer than Big Bear.
But seriously doubt that X is anywhere near 10 at Sugarloaf or any other eastern area since Killington threw in the towel on stockpiling Superstar. Nonetheless I believe Sugarloaf does have some snow preservation advantages since it seems to run as late as some Vermont competitors that get way more natural snow and presumably blow a similar amount of manmade.
I would be surprised based upon reputation if the Snowfields have any snowmaking. Loafasaur's post indicated that the Snowfields are currently closed due to an icy surface but have an adequate base that will ski well when it warms up. This is the exact situation that Mt. Baldy's South Bowl has been in for the better part of the last month, according to Garry Klassen.
I am in agreement that a manmade base of X feet will last longer than a natural base of the same X feet. Big Bear, with its usual 2-4 feet of mostly manmade will keep a higher percentage of runs open this season than Baldy (probably maxed at 5 feet) for that reason. But in the big years Baldy's natural base does get to 8-10 feet and then it will last longer than Big Bear.
But seriously doubt that X is anywhere near 10 at Sugarloaf or any other eastern area since Killington threw in the towel on stockpiling Superstar. Nonetheless I believe Sugarloaf does have some snow preservation advantages since it seems to run as late as some Vermont competitors that get way more natural snow and presumably blow a similar amount of manmade.
Geoff
New member
Tony Crocker":2276hxty said:
I don't know if you have ever looked at any of the eastern double blacks when they blow snow on them to get them online. They blow 20 foot deep whales. I can't speak to Sugarloaf but at Killington, Cascade, Downdraft, and East Fall in the Canyon area certainly all have 10 feet of base. Superstar certainly has 10 feet of base on the top headwall and the lower steep part. Outer Limits has to have 10 feet of base. These have all been resurfaced multiple times.
As His Editorship points out.... Surprise. Sugarloaf has 95% snowmaking coverage just like all other eastern resorts. The steep stuff down from the very top like White Nitro gets snowmaking. It would pretty much never be open otherwise since the 200"-ish of natural snow they receive gets wind-scoured.
At Killington, to make it to June, they put down a good 20 foot base. When you ride the Superstar quad, you are looking up at the snow mound. Even with that amount of base, the middle flat part tends to melt out since it really bakes in the May sun. Upper Downdraft was always the better spot for June 1 skiing but ASC made that impossible when they pulled out the Killington double chair with the midstation and replaced it with the K1 gondola.