Summer freeride snowboarding relatively near Irvine, Ca ?

boardrider

New member
Hi fellow boarders,

Could anyone suggest what would be my best bet for:

Weekend snowboarding
preferably freeriding
in June
at a ski-site within few hours drive from Irvine, California
or within a short comercial flight from Irvine, California
that won't cost an arm-and-a-leg ?

Any suggestions :?:

Thanks,
BR.
 
Mammoth (appox. 6 hours one way drive from Irvine) is the only possibility driving. Mammoth nearly always runs to Memorial Day (May 26 in 2008) and is sure to do that this year. Past Memorial Day is a function of snowpack, and given that there has only been 8 inches new snow in the past month and the base is a slightly below average (for this time of year) 8-10 feet, I would not bet on an extension into June at this point. If it happens, it will be one or two weeks at most.

You will need to fly to any of the other possibilities.

A-Basin in Colorado is one of the few areas in North America having a below average season, so if it's open past Memorial Day it will be marginal.

Snowbird only goes past Memorial Day in huge seasons. This one is quite good at 120%, but it will still depend on how cold and/or snowy the spring months are.

Whistler runs to first weekend of June.

Timberline in Oregon is the only sure bet to be open throughout June. Clearly you should put the skiing at the front end of your trip, as it will get more marginal every week. If you really want to ski, book the international flights into Portland and out of Los Angeles. Then use a cheap carrier like Southwest for the one way Portland to LA.
 
I've never heard of any of the Hood areas other than TImberline going past early May.

In the past Mt. Bachelor would have had fantastic skiing in June of a year like this. They have had 500 inches already (150+% of normal) and the current base of 150-170 inches will melt off slowly. But with Powdr Corp in charge we can't even assume Memorial Day now. Sadly, we can no longer count on Mt. Bachelor being open past the annual Pole Pedal Paddle event, which is May 17 this year.
 
Tony Crocker":enx9fs9u said:
I've never heard of any of the Hood areas other than TImberline going past early May.

In the past Mt. Bachelor would have had fantastic skiing in June of a year like this. They have had 500 inches already (150+% of normal) and the current base of 150-170 inches will melt off slowly. But with Powdr Corp in charge we can't even assume Memorial Day now. Sadly, we can no longer count on Mt. Bachelor being open past the annual Pole Pedal Paddle event, which is May 17 this year.

I've heard a lot about how poorly Powdr Corp runs Bachelor. It's a shame that they won't keep the mountain open for June. Clearly they have the snow this year. Unfortunately, they don't have "skiers" management. You would think that they could sell themselves, like mammoth, as the "late" season mountain.
 
There are several LAX to Redmond, OR flights each day on Horizon. Redmond is 15 minutes drive from Bend and then another 20 minutes up to Mt Bachelor. It takes about 2 hours on a four across turbo prop.
Tony's observations are sadly accurate. I am just hoping for an "extension" of the lift schedule, we could easily operate the Summit Chair this year through July. There has been some nasty editorials and a lot of grumbling locals here this season, so maybe something positive will happen.
 
schubwa":k1wqmwor said:
Tony's observations are sadly accurate. I am just hoping for an "extension" of the lift schedule, we could easily operate the Summit Chair this year through July. There has been some nasty editorials and a lot of grumbling locals here this season, so maybe something positive will happen.

I doubt powdr corp will change its stance on season extension. They own Killington too, and they have stopped the late season there. It seems to me that they are using their periphery resorts ( Boreal, Las Vegas, Killington, Bachelor) as a means to pump money into their "premier" mountain: Park City. It's a shame. I feel for the poor denizens of Bend. I fear that Powdr Corp will not do much good for Bachelor.
 
rfarren":3cgjx0rj said:
It seems to me that they are using their periphery resorts ( Boreal, Las Vegas, Killington, Bachelor) as a means to pump money into their "premier" mountain: Park City.
Don't get me started here Rob. I agree with you 100%. Why would Powdr Corp. piss on two of their stellar regional resorts (Bachelor in the PNW and Killington in the East) to feed the Ginger orphan child dive that is Park City??? There are at least SIX other resorts within 30 minutes of PCMR that are better...
 
rfarren":8lm1dxzu said:
It's a shame that they won't keep the mountain open for June. Clearly they have the snow this year. Unfortunately, they don't have "skiers" management. You would think that they could sell themselves, like mammoth, as the "late" season mountain.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot to add, that unlike Mammoth, we have some outstanding connectivity out of our Redmond, OR airport. There's daily flights to SFO, LAX, Portland, SeaTac, Vegas, SLC, etc.
Some of the best corn on the planet and they close it down early. Shame on you Powdr Corp! Sell your ski areas and get into the golf business!

ps: Rob, I told you not to get me started.
 
schubwa":3dx6juwc said:
Don't get me started here Rob. I agree with you 100%. Why would Powdr Corp. piss on two of their stellar regional resorts (Bachelor in the PNW and Killington in the East) to feed the Ginger orphan child dive that is Park City??? There are at least SIX other resorts within 30 minutes of PCMR that are better...

I imagine that Powdr Corp is going to be unsuccessful with Bachelor. Bachelor is more of a regional or local mountain. It has a loyal clientele. However, making Bachelor a "destination" resort for the NW is a flawed plan. Why would one jump through hoops to get to Bend, when it is much easier to get to Whistler. I also think the "dollar is the bottom line" is a dangerous business plan in regards to a mountain like Bachelor. Bachelor is known for its late season, and builds clients, and gets free exposure via its natural ability to preserve snow. To cut cost and close the mountain for june seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. These companies never seem to understand the the word "soul" when it comes to skiing.
I just pray that Alta never sells to some massive corporation.
 
By the way when I say "jump through hoops" I'm talking about getting there from anywhere other than the west coast. Even so, if I had to fly to a resort in dec, jan, feb, or march, my "destination" resort would still be Whistler. It's just a bummer, because if Bachelor were open this June I would totally be "jumping through hoops" to get me some corn.
 
The Powdr Corp philosophy is that each resort is a self contained profit center. In Killington's case that could be an improvement over the long run vs the last decade of ASC. At least Powdr won't suck the profits out and over time local management will be able to spend some money upgrading facilities. We already saw some improvement in early season operation according to Geoff. Given the cost of stockpile snowmaking, it's hard to see Killington going back to its old late season though.

At Bachelor I'm convinced that Powdr decided it was a regional resort with a semi captive audience and no chance to go national without on-mountain lodging. So with little perceived elasticity in skier demand they saw an easy route to increased profits by slashing expenses. At least with 500 inches of snow by April 1 skiing must have been great this season no matter what management did.

Some of the best corn on the planet
THE best for lift service IMHO.

I'm not sure I would fly up there for the half day skiing of June. Though with the summer sports available in Bend there are many other things to do. But I did fly up there for a weekend last April. But I went April 14-15 because I feared they would cut back to restricted lifts/hours a week later. So it's not only the May closing that's obnoxious, it's the mid-to-late April cutback in hours and terrain when the whole mountain is still skiable.

It's hard to see what might restore Mt. Bachelor's late season. If they don't think they can attract non-regional destination visitors in midwinter, they aren't going to be trying in May/June. The best source of revenue at that time is to attract ski teams for training and summer race camps. Unlike Timberline, Mt. Bachelor probably has enough snow/vertical for downhill/Super G courses.

Our market here in L.A. is big enough to support Mammoth's late season, which is extended flexibly based upon snowpack. But in the big years they also bring in national ski teams for training.
 
Tony Crocker":1mkydfbk said:
The Powdr Corp philosophy is that each resort is a self contained profit center.

Being that Powdr Corp is a private company, it is very hard to tell how their money flow works. It does seem that they have done a very poor job of running Bachelor. Cost cutting procedures have resulted in poor lift management, and safety issues. I've also heard that they need many more employees than they hire, and as a result costumer service has degraded to an all time low. This, along with rising prices of season passes, has created much tension with the locals. I, for one, don't believe that Powdr Corp follows the aforementioned philosophy. That may be their mission statement, but they don't follow it.

Overall satisfaction is the most important factor at a ski mountain. Helpful and happy employees go a long way in creating a enjoyable atmosphere. It is why I always find myself returning to Alta. I've never had a bad experience there, even though the mountain food isn't so great, and I've sat through chair closures. I like the experience even when the snow isn't that great.
 
Tony Crocker":3xluct83 said:
At least with 500 inches of snow by April 1 skiing must have been great this season no matter what management did.
Indeed. This morning was another quality powder morning with 1 1/2 inches yesterday and five overnight.
Tony Crocker":3xluct83 said:
Our market here in L.A. is big enough to support Mammoth's late season
You can fly here in two hours rather than run the Friday night gauntlet on the freeways out of LA (6+ hours to Mammoth, which has no air service). I've lost count on how many golf courses we have here now, and there's other activities around here as well...Powdr Corp hasn't figured this one out.
Tony Crocker":3xluct83 said:
The best source of revenue at that time is to attract ski teams for training and summer race camps. Unlike Timberline, Mt. Bachelor probably has enough snow/vertical for downhill/Super G courses.
THe US Team wanted to come here last spring and Powdr turned 'em down. I remember them coming here for speed training decades ago.
 
I have recieved a paycheck from Powdr. For being a pimp. And I used to sell out high-priced McKinsey/BCG/Bain consultants for minimum wage to afford my ski habit. We all got what we wanted. Or at least I did. Yes, I sold out my classmates to get ahead.

Joking aside, I have found Powdr Corp to be pretty astute. Alpine Meadows was very well run. And stayed open to Memorial Day almost every year. If I had to invest money for my retirement in the ski industry, Powdr. They are not thinking about the best they can be, but thinking about the cold hard realities of cash in an industry of dreamers.


That said.

Mt. Bachelor completely rocks. The Casacade volcanoes come into their best life in the spring and summer. I loved climbing and skiing in Seattle - British Columbia/Baker to Rainier to Shasta. My season was year round.

Bend is such a great place. I wish Bachelor stayed open longer.

I think the key is moving some of the late season costs into a marketing budget. However, it is really hard to quantify things - a return. There is too much of a divorce between marketing and operations.
 
I should rephrase my statement. It appears that Powdr Corp delegates to each ski area's management how to operate, but will not provide a gravy train of external financing.

ChrisC's observation's from the inside and many of ours from the outside show that these ski areas are not run the same way.

Park City being the obvious example. It's not my favorite mountain, but don't see major issues with the way it is operated. There's certainly no sense of cutting corners.

Alpine Meadows I only ski occasionally, last time was 2005. I didn't see much new happening there, but no deterioration either. I do know that sometime during the Powdr era single day ticket prices were cut below the other big Tahoe areas, which met with a mixed reaction from some observers due to weekend crowds getting much bigger.

The first moves at Killington have been the opposite of Alpine. Management thought the weekend frenzy was the worst negative in Killington's image and went the other way, getting rid of the cut-rate passes and trying to get similar revenue from a smaller number of skiers, presumably having a better experience. I'll defer to Geoff again, but from his earlier comments the early season and the weekend frenzy were improved, but facilities and slope maintenance not yet. I do know Killington wants to improve lift/trail layouts and traffic flows, but they are going to have to finance those out of their own profits. Since the Northeast market is more competitive than they have seen elsewhere, time will tell whether the customer base will wait patiently for that to happen gradually or start skiing elsewhere.

Like Schubwa, I don't see anything positive about Powdr Corp at Mt. Bachelor. It's like Killington under ASC, money is being sucked out.

You can fly here in two hours rather than run the Friday night gauntlet on the freeways out of LA
Yes, for $400+, that's not going to become a weekend routine for too many people, particularly when you can fly JetBlue to SLC for $155RT. And it was 4 hours with a plane change in Portland (last year) or SF (a while back).

There is too much of a divorce between marketing and operations.
That's for sure. There's no marketing cachet from having the U.S. Ski Team doing downhill training on your hill every June? Pretty stupid turning that down if you ask me.

I have no idea what the vacation market is for multisport enthusiasts. But it doesn't get any better than Bend/Bachelor from April to June. Schubwa's right about the golf, too. They told us at NASJA 2000 that there were 30 courses among Sisters, Redmond, Bend and Sunriver.
 
As of April 14 Mt. Bachelor is operating 8AM - 1PM, in what are probably still mostly winter conditions. Disgusting. I've seen Mammoth open longer than that on July 4.
 
Tony Crocker":1iy321wm said:
As of April 14 Mt. Bachelor is operating 8AM - 1PM, in what are probably still mostly winter conditions. Disgusting. I've seen Mammoth open longer than that on July 4.

I'm telling ya'll: Powdr Corp has done a miserable job with bachelor.
 
While there is generally some healthy friction between ski mountain companies and locals - the Mt. Bachelor/Bend relationship is really acrimonious.

And it seems that locals have reason to be upset given the results of 6+ years under Powdr.

From this year....a record snow year and double digit drop in skiers?
It's been a rough season, with frequent lift breakdowns, a down year in visitor counts (off 15 percent) and now a possible earlier season cutoff after season pass prices spiked to $900.

However, I think it is par for the course given the hostile takeover background of Bachelor by Powdr Corp.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0416/064.html
Snowed Under
Elisa Williams, 04.16.01

Takeovers — Has Leucadia Chairman Ian Cumming met his match in the backwoods of Oregon?

Few can match wits with corporate bottom feeder Ian Cumming when it comes to wringing money out of white elephants. The media-shy head of Leucadia National did it with insurer Colonial Penn and Sperry & Hutchinson of S&H Green Stamps fame, and now is at work on a $6 billion bailout of ailing Finova Group.

But Powdr Corp., the undervoweled outfit owned by Cumming and his sons John and David, got more than it bargained for when it bid on a remote Oregon ski resort.

For folks who usually traffic in billion-dollar companies, the 8,122-acre Mt. Bachelor resort in Oregon's Deschutes National Forest probably looked like easy pickings. The mountain lost $207,100 on $22 million in sales last ski season and attracted only 480,010 skiers, down from a recent peak of 582,000 in 1995. The dividend was suspended.

The Cummings have been lusting after Mt. Bachelor since 1996 but were initially rebuffed by the scattered families who control the stock. With a portfolio that includes Park City Mountain Resort in Utah and three California ski areas, Powdr could use Mt. Bachelor to provide more geographical diversification and boost its projected $63 million in revenues by about 30% this year.

So in December, when Mt. Bachelor looked for buyers, the Cummings offered a lowball bid of $28million, $6 million less than they had offered in 1996. In time they got the support of Mt. Bachelor's founding family. "John [Cumming] is a mountain man," swoons Beverley Healy, widow of the resort's founder.

But what they didn't count on was Randall Papé. In his day job Papé sells tractors and small airplanes from Eugene, Ore. His family is Mt. Bachelor's largest shareholder, with 23% of the 1,382 shares.

As Papé saw it, the Cummings were exploiting turmoil on the board and Mt. Bachelor's current troubles to steal the property from its local owners. "We had, in effect, done a shotgun sale, and the timing was terrible," says Papé, whose board supporters snubbed the Cummings.

Fed up, the Cummings launched their bid as a hostile takeover, offering $20,100 a share and even throwing in a sweetener of free lifetime ski passes. Papé upped the ante with his own competing offer of as much as $26,000 and brought in Intrawest, the big Canadian ski conglomerate, as his partner.

The Cummings claim they were tendered a majority of the shares in March, but it may be a Pyrrhic victory. Many ski operators make less money on skiing than they do on real estate or amenities. That could be a challenge at Mt. Bachelor, which sits in a national forest and faces more than the usual red tape if it tries to develop slopeside lodgings. As it is, the nearest overnight accommodations are about 20 miles away, in Bend or Sunriver.

And Papé isn't going away. Just as the Cummings declared victory, Papé managed to tangle them up in court with a temporary restraining order that put the deal on ice.

"Listen, you're talking to somebody who survived upper bowel cancer," says Papé. "I was diagnosed to be terminal five years ago. So this is peanuts compared to that."
 
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