Telluride Investment Plans

[ChrisC]

After 10 years of no significant investments in lifts and eateries, Telluride is finally going to invest in its infrastructure.

Next summer, Chair 9 / Plunge is going to be upgraded to a High-Speed Quad. This is significant, since the current Triple Chair (1986 Installation) is approaching 40 years old, has a current ride time of 13 minutes, and only has a capacity of 1,000 skiers/hr. This is long overdue and such an obvious upgrade that is an embarrassment for the mountain. Also, the lift services Telluride's best and most famous terrain - The Plunge, Spiral Stairs, See Forever.

Telski replacing Lift 9, eyes more hotel beds

Telski hosted its second community meeting regarding its previously announced $102 million capital plan Tuesday night at the Telluride Conference Center in Mountain Village.

www.telluridenews.com

And here is the $100 M capital plan. Nothing too exciting...Just outdated lifts being replaced: Chair 7/Coonskin, Chair 10/Sunshine and Chair 4/Village. However, Telluride does have the approval to add a lift in Palmyra Basin and a surface lift up to the Gold Hill Chutes (my favorite terrain).

Telski announces $102 million capital plan

Telski hosted a special meeting Wednesday night at the Telluride Conference Center in Mountain Village in revealing an extensive capital plan for the resort over the next decade. Affordable housing,

www.telluridenews.com

Telluride Ski & Golf owners Chuck and Chad Horning hosted a community meeting tonight, outlining a nine figure capital plan for the next five to ten years. While no lift contracts have been signed, Telski officials revealed they are close to a deal with Doppelmayr for a new detachable quad and are working on three additional projects to be built in seasons to come. Telluride also outlined new employee housing and hotel initiatives which are key to supporting future growth.


The first new chairlift in 14 years will likely be a detachable quad replacing Plunge, Lift 9. The triple chair’s ride time exceeds 13 minutes and the $8 million quad would carry 1,800 skiers per hour, up from 1,200. The Hornings said they would like to ink a deal with Doppelmayr in the next few weeks but that plan may depend on community support for tourism in two November 2nd ballot questions regarding short term rentals.


The second project Telski officials discussed was an up-gauge of the Village Express to a six place. This out-of-base workhorse would likely feature wider chair spacing than the current detachable quad, allowing for fewer stops and more efficient loading. Also on the roadmap for replacement is Sunshine Express, once the longest high speed quad in the world. A modernized chairlift would run $9 or 10 million but the resort is considering building an even more costly multi-stage gondola. Like many of its competitors, Telluride wants to shift ski school operations to the upper mountain, which would require a beginner-friendly gondola. If built as a gondola, Lift 10 would likely include an intermediate station at The Market and Mountain Village parking garage. The lower section of the gondola could run independently in the summer to complement the existing three section gondola operated by the town of Mountain Village. Discussions are ongoing about that project and the future of the aging Telluride-Mountain Village gondola system in general. Finally, Lift 7 is on the radar to be replaced with a higher capacity fixed grip lift at a cost of around $3 million.


All told, the Hornings are looking at spending $35 million on lifts. Ownership said Telluride will remain a Doppelmayr mountain with fixed grip, UNI-G and D-Line options all under consideration. They noted global steel and copper demands are impacting lift prices but both parties are eager to make a deal.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Telluride does have the approval to add a lift in Palmyra Basin

Badly needed. That terrain looks great but no way most of us flatlanders will ever ski it via earned turns. I'm curious where the upper terminal will be to avoid avalanche exposure though.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

While Telluride may have fallen behind on updating ski-area infrastructure, at least they've spent money on marketing!

For what it's worth, I like the simplicity of their logo.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Logo reminds me of this one, which is perhaps better known in the current era :

 

[EMSC]

Is Plunge a chicken and egg thing? I recall it never being heavily used, but that could be since it is a long slow lift.

I would think some of those Epic pass $ should be flowing to Telluride by now too.

 

[jimk]

I've made the hike up to Gold Hill and would vote yes to a surface lift there

 

[ChrisC]

I am a fan of Gold Hill, not so much Palmyra Peak.

Gold Hill is maybe a 10-15 minutes hike from the Revelation Bowl Lift. And then just a flat walk at almost 13k. There are just great couloirs into Palmyra Basin or 4k vertical feet into Bear Creek and the town of Telluride.

Gold Hill Chute ......Example - #8. They get tight.

Gold Hill Chutes

And Bear Creek

I think it's better side country than Jackson Hole. Likely the best in the US.


I have only been up Palmyra Peak 3-4x......the main chute can even get bumpy these days. I don't think effort-reward ratio is great. And it's 40 minutes.

I do hike Bald Mt a lot - about 15-20 minutes.

 

[ChrisC]

Is Plunge a chicken and egg thing? I recall it never being heavily used, but that could be since it is a long slow lift.

I would think some of those Epic pass $ should be flowing to Telluride by now too.

Outside of powder days, it's a bit long to repeat.....2-3 rides, and you are done for the day.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I am a fan of Gold Hill, not so much Palmyra Peak.

All three of my visits have been in late March, generally an excellent time for that region of the ski world. Gold Hill faces west and was crusty on both occasions (no lifts in that area in 1992). In 2019 nothing above Gold Hill 1 was open. 2019 had 125% of normal snowfall at Telluride. We would not have been on that Southwest road trip after Iron Blosam if it had not been a good season.

Palmyra has perfect north exposure, looks like a shorter version of Highlands Bowl but currently with a much longer hike. Looking at ChrisC's pics, I REALLY wonder where the lift terminals can be placed safely in there.

Bear Creek looks awesome but has a fearsome reputation for avalanches. In 2019 there had been a substantial dump about 4 days before we arrived and it was still considered extremely unsafe. I should have inquired about it in 2004, when I arrived at the end of a 3-week dry spell, though the Revelation lift didn't exist then.

I still consider Telluride a flawed mountain in its current layout. Adam had it right in 2004, gazing upward at the scenery from top of chair 9, "Why are we skiing down here instead of up there?" In 2019 we were at Taos a week later and the Kachina chair blows away anything lift accessible at Telluride.

 

[ChrisC]

Well - the lack of investment finally caught up with Telluride for Christmas/New Years 2022/23.

I caught up with my brother after his make/break holiday period. Another record holiday for him. However, he did say: "I've never ever heard so many people say - I'm never coming back to Telluride!"

So what went wrong?

One factor that TelSki (mountain company) could not control was generally below-average snowfall pre-Christmas. Not enough to really open steeper terrain with only a 25" base. The mountain really needs at least 35-40" to be somewhat decent. Less than 50% of the mountain was open at the start of the holidays. However, a lot of Colorado was not great - Purgatory, Crested Butte, Loveland, ABasin, Breckenridge, etc. But the media showed all the snow in California, Utah, and Northwest - so vacationers felt they lost the weather lottery.

However, let's go over how Telski created its own mess:

• Snowmaking. Telski made no attempt to make snow early enough on the See Forever trail which put their entire opening sequence behind. Also, they could not make snow on the entire front face because Chair 9 was still under construction, and heavy equipment needed to use the key access trails - like Telluride Trail, etc. Note: Telluride needs a snowmaking plant that can reliably open Town and Mountain Village sides with all lifts. The only lifts not really needing snowmaking are Prospect Bowl/Gold Hill/Revy Bowl.
• Chair 9 Project Management. They were replacing a core iconic lift with no backup/redundancy. And they botched it. I could kinda tell this was going to happen when they showed Aug 1st equipment deliveries online - when most other projects already had their equipment and were flying towers in. Heck, Vail even took all its Park City equipment that was lying around in June and sent it to Whistler. In recent memory, I have only seen the delays at Copper when the American Flyer lift replacement did not open for 2019 holidays.
• Lift Underinvestment. Chair 10 Down Many Days!
  • Chair 10 was built in 1986 - it's likely the oldest original HSQ still in operation without a big rebuild or replacement. When every other major resort replaces lifts, Telluride sticks with its old low capacity HSQ that they cannot find parts for, grows lines and is overall unreliable now.
  • It was really special when the 0.1%'s are in town using the multimillion hones - maybe once per year. And they cannot get to them for most of the holidays!!1 What a total show!
  • Not to mention it's a key ski school lift, possesses the best novice terrain, is a key accessway to Prospect Bowl, and is home to about 3% of Telluride's ski/out lodging on its runs!
  • Its current capacity is 1200 PPH - less than half a normal HSQ.
  • And Telski has had the approval to rebuild Chair 10 to either a new HSQ or better yet - a gondola with mid-station at the parking structure/grocery store - and a restaurant and nordic center at the summit. Oh no Telluride - save those pennies!
• Terrain Availability. Entire Front Face/Town Side Closed for the early holidays. (Chairs 7, 8 and 9. ) Revelation Bowl Ch 15 closed. And Chair 10 often closed. That leaves less than 50% of the mountain open - driving up crazy liftlines. You are paying $200+ to ski this mess?!
• On-Mountain Restaurant Underinvestment. Cannot handle current crowds (esp. on cold/snowy days)
  • Gorrono has been enlarged outside. But does not have nearly the inside capacity to handle crowds on cold or snowy days. Like the later holidays.
  • Guiseppe's at Top of 9. Kinda closed because you need to hike to access it. LOL.
  • Alpino Vino. This is the result of a crazy Telluride couple who bought a mining claim, built a house after holding Gold Hill ransom, and lived up here since the 90s. It just got converted in the 2010s when they got tired of it.
  • Bon Vivant. Outdoors and small/exposed.
  • Here is what the mountain should have built and had approvals for since 1999 (from Master Plan):
    • 1. Bon Vivant at Top of Polar Queen Express ( Lift 5)
      The 1999 ROD authorized a guest services facility and a seating capacity for this location of 700 (total daily
      capacity of 2,800 persons). TSR is currently operating a small-scale restaurant with outdoor seating for 60
      people. There are also public restrooms included at the restaurant. Both the restaurant and the
      bathrooms operate on a septic system that was designed and built for the expansion of the restaurant facility.
      The next phase of the previously-approved expansion is to include a restaurant facility that has a full
      kitchen and bar with a seating capacity for up to 100 people. This restaurant will also service the existing
      deck and additional outdoor/tent seating of up to 100 people provided for summer events.
      The new facility will capture views of Palmyra Peak and Gold Hill and will continue to offer French country
      cuisine within an authentic setting. Building architecture and materials will be consistent with Forest
      Service guidelines utilizing timbers and rustic wood highlights to be consistent with the existing deck.
      2. Restaurant and Nordic Center at Top of Sunshine Express (Lift 10)
      The 1999 ROD authorized a seating capacity of 100 persons (four seatings per day for a total of 400
      persons per day). The building architecture will be simple and siting will take advantage of views and solar
      orientation.
      3. Expansion of Plunge Restaurant (aka Giuseppe's)
      The 1999 ROD authorized a seating capacity of 200 persons (four seatings per day for a total of 800
      persons per day). The current seating is inadequate, especially for indoor seating needed on cold windy
      days. The future restaurant will include expanded indoor and outdoor seating, as well as improved kitchen and
      restroom facilities. The views of all the surrounding mountain ranges at this restaurant location are
      spectacular, and the expanded seating will provide an opportunity for more guests to enjoy the natural
      surroundings at TSR.

So needless to say, there were a lot of pissed-off people in Telluride for the holidays. But they did get snow and now the mountain is 80% open. Maybe Chair 9 will become like the Grand Montets upper tram and you can just skin it! Don't rush into things Chamonix! (likely fire insurance litigation)


This is what you get when the Telski owner Chuck Honing repels ski industry veterans/Ski Hall of Famers/Visionaries like Bill Jensen in 2020: here

In life, change is the only constant. But when that change is the loss of a beloved leader like Bill Jensen – in the midst of a pandemic no less – the Telluride community is left reeling. Jensen stepped down as Telski’s CEO on Friday, August 7. ​

And oh lord - and the owner thinks he is running a ranch! here

Growing up in a ranching family that owned and oversaw a 600-acre ranch in Paradise, California, Telluride Ski & Golf Company owner Chuck Horning is quick to compare the rigors of running a ranch to that of a major ski resort.​

​

“Our general approach to this mountain is similar to when we got involved in 2004,” he explained in an interview with the Daily Planet Monday. “It’s like a ranch; it’s a long-term approach. We don’t buy things to sell. Improving this resort has been the goal and the challenge.”​

​

In 15-plus years, Telski has grown into one of the preeminent ski destinations in North America. The recent creation of the summer mountain bike park has made it more of a year-round resort, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t still room for improvement, Horning said.​

​

In speaking about Telski’s more long-term vision during an interview about the upcoming 2020-21 ski season, Horning repeated that the goal is to “continually improve the ski resort,” which means putting more money back into the resort.​

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“We need to spend another $35 or $40 million on the mountain to bring it up to what we would consider optimal,” he added.​

​

While he didn’t share specifics, he explained that lift improvements can be made moving forward, as well as adding dining options on the mountain.​

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One of the biggest upgrades the resort has continually made a priority is snowmaking operations. When a year like 2017-18 hits — the dreaded season during which there was only 171 inches of natural snowfall, which was significantly less than the annual average of 309 inches — snowmaking kicks into high gear in providing sufficient powder. That hasn’t always been the case, Horning explained, as outdated equipment made snowmaking a here-or-there matter whenever he first came to the resort.​

Chuck really should just sell Telluride and go back to commercial real estate in Newport Beach, CA.

You are not the Crown family that owns and invests in Aspen. Nor Earl Holding who did a great job with Sun Valley and Snowbasin.

 

[ChrisC]

And I just cannot help myself when it comes to Telluride owner Chuck Honing Here Primarily because I do not deal well with continued (multi-decade) incompetence. Let's review:

New owner learning tricks of the ski trade on the job​

By Jason Blevins - The Denver Post - | Apr 16, 2005​

​

TELLURIDE, Colo. — With the tips of his skis casting a shadow on the town below, Chuck Horning shoves off onto The Plunge, a famously steep bump field atop the 33-year-old ski area he bought more than a year ago. Soon he’s on his belly. Then his back. He slams into several moguls before scraping to a stop, laughing hard.​

​

“You know, I’ve learned more in my life through my mistakes,” Horning says. “And let me tell you, there is nothing I’ve ever done that is more interesting or more frustrating than this.”​

​

More than a year into his tenure as owner of the Telluride Ski & Golf Co., the Southern California commercial real estate mogul admits he has been learning on the job. He’s neck-deep in a maturing industry in which independent operators battle deep-pocketed corporations for a dwindling number of skiers.​

​

“Everything that could be wrong with this business, except for the location, is wrong with this business,” he says. “So why not step up to the challengefi How many chances do you get in life for this kind of challengefi”​

​

Horning’s on-the-job training as owner and operator hasn’t been entirely smooth. He fired the chief executive just 10 months after hiring him, and five other top-tier execs have left the company under his ownership. But a record snow year and skier visits that are running 10 percent ahead of last year have blurred many blunders.​

​

Unlike other resort operators who thump their chests and crow about the strategic planning that fills their ski lodges and chair lifts, Horning is the first to admit he knows little about skiing.​

 

[Tony Crocker]

However, a lot of Colorado was not great - Purgatory, Crested Butte, Loveland, ABasin, Breckenridge, etc.

Front Range Colorado had a not far off average Christmas Week.
Area: % open 2022, average % open since 1988
A-Basin: 48%, 56%
Breckenridge: 64%, 70%
Copper: 65%, 64%
Keystone: 54%, 70%
Loveland: 38%, 55%
Steamboat: 96%, 97%
Vail: 87%, 82%
Winter Park: 81%, 77%
The bottom line is that the latter 3 areas are reasonably decent choices for the holidays in terms of snow (I'll leave crowds out of the discussion), while the rest of them are not really. As of yesterday I have Front Range Colorado at 108% of normal snowfall, and last week was only average there.

For the southern and western areas, I track mid and end of December, and only since 2003:
Area: mid-Dec 2022&average, Jan. 1 2023& average
Aspen: 67%, 56%, 90%, 85%
Crested Butte: 36%, 26%, 59%, 52%
Telluride: 34%, 37%, 56%, 74%
Purgatory: 23%, 49%, 93%, 88%
Taos: 16%, 29%, 34%, 58%
All of these places except Aspen were lagging at Christmas, maybe 70% of normal snowfall. The last two weeks it has snowed a lot and the region overall is now at 114% of normal snowfall. Crested Butte's North Face opened last week. Taos is still in trouble at 66%. Don't expect Kachina before February. Telluride's current deficiency in open terrain is probably due to the construction $#!&show.