Trees & Powder - Jan 2012

M

markiel

New member
I'm planning a trip for my wife and I for January 2012. We tend to like powder in the trees. Steeps are not that crucial, but can be nice. Our favorite mountain in Tahoe is Homewood.

Since its projected to be a La Nina, I'm thinking Northern Rockies. Weighing between:
Whitefish
Schwietzer
Brundage
Steamboat
Jackson/Targhee

We've done a few trips to Steamboat, and I've done a few days at Jackson and a day at Targhee. Liked all three, but I don't know much about those smaller mountains.

Since we are mainly looking for good tree skiing, ideally with lots of powder, I'm thinking that it might be fun to try one of those smaller less glamerous mountains. Any advice or feedback would be appreciated.
 
Unfortunately i can't help with the first 3 on your list as I've not ski'd them. But I would add Mt Bachelor to your options. Some really great blue & black level tree skiing there.
 
As implied by rfarren's comment, your decision might turn on whether you had a strong preference for Jackson over Steamboat or vice versa. Though at Jackson you have the option of Targhee which is pitched more like Steamboat. Brundage I would put in that class also. Brundage is the smallest area you list (maybe too small for a whole week for some) but by far the quietest. If you're relatively inexperienced in powder it's an attractive choice due to less competition. Intermediate level tree skiing is outstanding. With regard to rfarren's comment Steamboat indeed has minimal steeps of the 35+ degree variety but it does have enough pitch for powder (as do all areas discussed here) as opposed to the blue marked terrain at places like Northstar and Snowmass.

Whitefish and Schweitzer are similar: Both overlook lakes and get chronic fog but have lots of tree skiing to mitigate it. Whitefish is bigger, has maybe a few more steeps and slightly less rain incidence. As noted by JSpin there's a lot of good tree skiing at Whitefish but it's mostly on the upper half of its vertical, while Schweitzer's is adequately spaced over nearly all of its vertical, at least on the backside lifts.

If you like Jackson a lot for its steeps, you need to be looking across the border from Schweitzer to Red Mt./Whitewater or Whitefish to Fernie. These are the places renowned for steep tree skiing. Red is the best I've seen anywhere for that (as other FTO posters have noted also). Red's weather/snowfall are similar to Schweitzer (~300 inches) while you can add about 20% more snowfall to Fernie which is overall larger in acreage particularly with the new Polar Peak expansion. Whitewater has a much higher base elevation, gets 400 inches and a lot less rain than the other Kootenay areas. Whitewater was far smaller than any of the other areas before the 2010 expansion and now is probably similar sized to Brundage but steeper.

If you're considering multiple areas (you should for a week IMHO), Red Mt. is 3+ hours from Spokane (cheapest gateway airport) and 2 1/2 from Schweitzer. Whitewater is another hour north of Red. Fernie is 2 hours north of Whitefish. The east/west drive from one group to the other is 5 hours in Canada, probably a bit less than that in the U.S. Brundage is isolated halfway up Idaho and a long way from anywhere but its Boise gateway 2+ hours south. If you go there you should also spend some time at Bogus Basin, the Boise "local" area of 2,600 acres.

IMHO the Kootenay region on both sides of the border is the best for lift served tree skiing in North America. Non-lift served also, when you consider Island Lake Snowcat near Fernie and the numerous snowcat and heli operators starting in the Nelson area near Whitewater and moving north up the Selkirks past Revelstoke.

FYI you're also choosing the right time of season at the Kootenay areas. With the exception of Whitewater all are relatively low in elevation and sunny in exposure, so routinely subject to spring conditions by March if it's warm or sunny.
 
Hi Tony,

Thanks for the nice feedback. I've seen your blog page which gives a lot of excellent info on snowfall, powder, el nino/la nina, etc. That's a great source of info that you have compiled.

Regarding Jackson vs. Steamboat, I enjoyed both places. I found more powder and better trees at Steamboat. Jackson's steepness can be a double edged sword, great for a few powder runs, but it can sky/plow out a more quickly.

So it sounds like you are partial to the Schwietzer/Red combo or Whitefish/Fernie combo for good trees. My main concern would be for rain at the lower elevations. Do you think that's unfounded?

If rain is a real possibility (like in most of the areas around Tahoe), I would probably be more inclined to stick with the higher elevations at Steamboat or Targhee/Jackson. But if the incidence of rain in January is highly unlikly, then it might be a good time to try someplace new.

Does anyone have any input on Sandpoint vs. Whitefish for nightlife/dinner? Are the resturants equal or does one little town have superior dining options?

Thanks again for the input!
 
Rain incidence (except Whitewater) is as much as North Tahoe. 5,000 feet in the Kootenays is like 8,000 at Tahoe; rain is rare above that elevation and occasional below it. 5,000 is halfway up Fernie, Red and Schweitzer, 1/3 of the way up Whitefish and below Whitewater's base. While I did get nailed by the mother of all rain events in January 2005 (probably the Canadian equivalent to New Year's 1997 in the Sierra) it's not that common as evidenced by my recurring visits to the region, including one scheduled for late January 2012.

One might think that the Pineapple Express warm storms would be less likely midwinter than earlier or later but that is not my observation. But midwinter snow preservation on sunny days is much better, thus the recommendation.

I am a stickler for issues related to snow conditions, but there are no guarantees. Remember Steamboat and Jackson have sunny exposures too. The upside to conditions in the Kootenays in January/February is quite enticing, and for those who like tree skiing even more compelling.

Whitefish dining is quite good as I recall. Schweitzer I was just passing through and have no direct knowledge.
 
If Southern California gets a big storm with good snowfall you can't beat Mt. Waterman for Trees, Steeps, and Powder with little crowds.
 
Big Tim":2sshi9ex said:
Red Mountain = good stuff.
Click to expand...

I hope it is. Heading there to ski for a couple days in March on my next grand tour as a friend from Scotland is spending a few weeks there at the same time.
 
I'm also planning to go skiing in January 2012 and my list is almost the same with markiel.

I consider myself and intermediate skier and my 2 boys are starting to show some skiing passion so I would prefer a kid-friendly ski resort.

Kudos to Tony Crocker for a very brief yet comprehensive review there. I've never been to Jackson and Steamboat and I agree that Whitefish and Schweitzer are almost similar even the mogul runs are quite identical.

Most ski resorts would be crowded in January so I would prefer a not so crowded ski resort that's why I consider Tom Moriarty's suggestion - Mount Waterman.

I think Waterman is a little underrated because of its size but it is know for its challenging tree runs as emphasized in this ski resort review: http://www.mountainyahoos.com/SkiResort ... erman.html

And since markiel is looking for good tree skiing then Mount Waterman would be a perfect choice.

I'm not sure if my boys would love there because there's no kid's zone and no terrain parks and my "alternative" would be convincing them that Mount Waterman is a proving ground for aspiring skiiers :-o
 
finetunencu":1laxpcow said:
I'm also planning to go skiing in January 2012 and my list is almost the same with markiel.

I consider myself and intermediate skier and my 2 boys are starting to show some skiing passion so I would prefer a kid-friendly ski resort.

Kudos to Tony Crocker for a very brief yet comprehensive review there. I've never been to Jackson and Steamboat and I agree that Whitefish and Schweitzer are almost similar even the mogul runs are quite identical.

Most ski resorts would be crowded in January so I would prefer a not so crowded ski resort that's why I consider Tom Moriarty's suggestion - Mount Waterman.

I think Waterman is a little underrated because of its size but it is know for its challenging tree runs as emphasized in this ski resort review: http://www.mountainyahoos.com/SkiResort ... erman.html

And since markiel is looking for good tree skiing then Mount Waterman would be a perfect choice.

I'm not sure if my boys would love there because there's no kid's zone and no terrain parks and my "alternative" would be convincing them that Mount Waterman is a proving ground for aspiring skiiers :-o
Click to expand...

Mt Waterman is great when conditions are good and the road is open, unfortunately thats only a few days during a good year and probably no days many years.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
finetunencu":26q52fz0 said:
@socal
Would you recommend January?
Click to expand...
I think what he's saying is that it's very hit or miss and you need to be able to go on short notice when conditions are good. From what I've read in this forum, it doesn't sound like a destination resort for a trip planned in advance.

Recall that socal wrote:
Mt Waterman is great when conditions are good and the road is open, unfortunately thats only a few days during a good year and probably no days many years.
Click to expand...
 
finetunencu":3ofxhup5 said:
@socal
Would you recommend January?
Click to expand...

I'd recommend the weekend after it snows, could be December could be March (only open Fri-Sun when they actually have enough snow to operate). Seriously, Waterman isn't worth discussing as a destination resort. Think about SoCal skiing this way, it's a tough call to buy a season pass at Mt. Baldy for $100 per season because there's a decent chance you conditions won't be good enough to get up there the 2-4 times you need to break even. Mt Baldy is pretty close to Waterman as the crow flies, operates 7 days a week and has a road they actually plow and open after a storm.
 
Plus 1 to all of SoCal's comments. Here's my History of Southern California Snow Conditions Chart since 1976.

http://bestsnow.net/scalhist.htm

A season with no "A" weekends means Mt. Baldy never was in full operation, safe to say that applies to Waterman also. And Waterman loses a considerable percentage of its best potential powder days to road closure. I have had some of my greatest ski days at Baldy but it´s idiotic to advance plan a destination ski trip to Southern California.
 
Thanks for all the info...

I'll keep Waterman in mind if I find myself in Southern California for a powder weekend.

Right now we are coalesing around a trip to Whitefish over the MLK weekend. Considering staying at the hibernation house (low budget on the mountain) or maybe the lodge on Whitefish Lake.

If anyone has any feedback on those places or great places to check out in town please let me know.

Do you all think that Whitefish will be overly crowded on MLK weekend? It is a holiday weekend, but they are kind of in the middle of nowhere.

The ability to fly right into Glacier Airport after work and home after a half day of skiing is the main deciding factor.

But using Southwest into Spokane and renting a 4WD to hit Schwietzer/Red is appealing because we can change flights at the last minute if the weather isn't cooperating.
 
You will only hear good things about Big Mountain and the town of Whitefish from me. This year I am spending 2 days at BM, 2 at Red Mountain and 1 at Schweitzer and I ust have close on 30 days in at Big Mountain.

The Hibernation House is where I first stayed back in 2000 for a week. Quite thin walls if memory serves correctly but they whipped up a mean breakfast as part of the deal. From memory it was one hot cooked meal per day, sometimes pancakes or bacon and such like. The following year we took the option of staying at the now gone Alpinglow. However it should be noted that this was a package deal with a UK firm and every year since I have been back myself I have stayed in Whitefish or Kalispell.

Personally I think the pluses of staying on the hill are far outweighed by those of staying off the mountain. The Stube is a real apres ski bar with character and after skiing is finished is usually the place to be and on a Wednesday don't miss the Frabert award for the biggest fuckup of the week by patrol or lifties. There is also free beer until the patrol keg runs dry. Other options are Ed and Mullys and the Hellroaring. All of which I have rolled out of on occasion! That said IMO from early evening the mountain village seems pretty empty.

For me I would stay down in the town and either drive up or take the free snow bus. This is last years schedule but will give you an idea . Link. In town there is a plethora of bars and restaurants. Bar wise I like the Remington and my personal favorite always was the Great Northern. This year and again in March 2012 I will stay in Kalispell as I got a brilliant deal.

I cant specifically say much on MLK but Big Mountain is deserted ordinarily even at Easter and Spring Break's when I have been before and that was in the day that tickets in April were $10 a day!

Thats just initial thoughts, if you want any specifics on the mountain or town let me know.
 
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