Trip Report: Purgatory @ DMR 12/31/09, Wolf Creek 1/2/10

cweinman

New member
Days one and two of the 2009/2010 season for my wife and I after taking all of 2008/2009 off while I wrapped up my degree and relocated from New York to Arizona. For the record, also the first two days of western skiing either of us have ever done! Drive up from Mesa, AZ got pretty hair brained with snow almost all of the way from Holbrook, AZ through Durango, CO. Road care was basically non-existent on I40 and then through the Navajo Reservation; thankfully the roads are straight (but that didn't stop some people from finding their way off the road).

Drive ultimately took a bit over 8 hours and after a quick dinner at Carver Brewing in Durango (decent beer, forgettable food), we got to sleep. We were staying in Durango for the duration of the trip, thus we decided to hit Purgatory on 12/31 with hopes of finding something to do that night in town for New Year's Eve. We arrived up at DMR around 9 AM, got a decent parking spot in the upper lot, but noticed that people were coming in truly fast and furious. My wife has had consistent issues with her boots and having not put them on in over a year, by the time we were ready to go it was around 10:15 AM. Crowds were down right horrid, and the generally crappy lift setup (at least in my opinion) at Purgatory did nothing to help things out. This was the view that greeted us at around 10 AM trying to get out of the base area on the high speed six lift (the other lift that was redundant to this one was not running).
Durango, Wolf Creek 1.jpg

This setup a general theme of the day of long (15 to 30 minute) lift lines. Purgatory is a weird place in this regard since the trails were rarely crowded, especially once you got away from the high speed lifts. We found ourselves cramping up pretty badly in these lines and it really contributed to the general negative vibe of the day. The snow was actually pretty good, but coverage was sketchy on a lot of the steeper trails with rocks and dirt poking out from below despite the recent snow. This made us shy away from trying out the glades on the mountain (plus lift access was really slow in these areas). No specific trails really stuck out to me, and we were generally just trying to find the least crowded way down the mountain and spent most of our day doing reasonably buttery mogul runs.

Overall, Purgatory seemed horribly equiped to handle the holiday crowds. Lift lines were just a massive free for-all with a lot of the Texas snow-boarder kids just blatently pushing their way in front of anyone who wouldn't fight like hell to keep them back. Staff and ski patrol were sparse, and a lot of people just generally seemed to have their head up their ass. We needed food around 1 PM and decided to eat mid-mountain in the bar (the cafes were truly hellish). Same theme of just being a poorly ran place carried through here with clearly not enough wait staff present for the crowds and we were left waiting for about 20 minutes while an open table we could of sat at just sat there waiting to be cleared off. The waitress we had apoligized to us over and over, and we honestly just felt bad for everyone working there given what a mess the place was.

To make a long story short, we don't plan on going back there any time soon, and I don't think I'd ever consider skiing there during a peak weekend again, at least until they seriously pump some cash into renovating their lifts. It just was not worth the $70 a ticket in my opinion and we found the terrain to quite frankly be very eastern (I kept thinking I was just skiing at VT on a day with fresh snow and cold temps).
Durango, Wolf Creek 2.jpg

Durango, Wolf Creek 3.jpg


After a late night out at Steamworks in Durango (fun place with pretty good beer and quite decent food), we decided to take it easy on 1/1/2010 and give our legs a chance to recover from the moguls (and the liftlines!). Got a late start that morning and drove up to Silverton, CO for the scenery. We gained a new found appreciation for just how easy it is to back country ski in the San Juans seeing all of the places you can just park a car along US550 and hike to earn some crazy turns. Grabbed lunch in Silverton and decided we'll definitely have to head up to check out the ski resort once we are up for it. Stopped at Durango Mountain Resort on the way back to check out their nordic center, and actually had quite a bit of fun on their trails for 2 hours or so that afternoon. In some ways I felt like the Nordic center had less flat areas than the ski area ](*,) . Returned back to Durango and had a great dinner at Ken & Sues'; check it out if you are a foodie!

Next morning we set the alarm for 5 AM to get an early start for heading up to Wolf Creek. Season to date snowfall for them stood at 189 inches. We got a bit later start than desired as usual, but still made it up US160 to the ski area, arriving at about 8:45 AM. Had a close encounter with an elk out by Pagosa Springs, followed by meeting a family of big horn sheep at the bottom of Wolf Creek Pass. The adventure came to a climax when I did my best impression of Sega Rally with our Silverado at about 60 MPH on black ice a few miles down the pass from the ski area. I'm still not sure how I didn't go off, but heard from some people who came up after us that a few people hit the same patch and did end up in the snow banks. We were pleasantly surprised by Pagosa Springs and would definitely consider staying there in the future to ski Wolf Creek. Yes, you have to beware of the pass being closed, but if you're not hell bent on down hill skiing and like other winter recreation like we do, Pagosa still has plenty to keep yourself occupied. We were pleasantly surprised to get a parking spot literally next to the ski lodge at 8:45 AM, and also were amused by how much more attentive the staff of Wolf Creek just generally seemed as soon as we got there (wow, friendly, happy people to actually answer any questions you may have, what a concept). Lift tickets were just downright awesome at $52 a piece.

Initial positive vibes continued as we met some nice people in the base camp lodge getting our gear on (including an awesome teleskier who gave us some tips on terrain and chatted with my wife about switching from alpine to tele, even offering to let her try some skis if she wanted to rent boots). People just seemed happy and chilled out here in general. We laughed when someone told us how busy it was since it was so much less crowded and hectic than Purgatory had been two days prior. We skied all over the mountain, starting on the Raven lift side and then working all the way across to the Alberta lift. Snow was fantastic with fresh stashes still to be had all over. Mogul fields were incredibly soft with lots of "sloppy second" type snow to be had everywhere. Being used to skiing icey, hard bumps in the east, we had the time of our life. Great mountain, great snow, great deal, and good people.

Thanks Wolf Creek for saving our trip that Purgatory tried to ruin :-D . I think we may have to make this a yearly visit, and knowing we have this just 7 to 8 hours from Phoenix makes it that much easier to tolerate living in the desert! Day 3 right now will likely be Arizona Snowbowl on January 16 unless their conditions really tank. I'll make sure to post a report up with some pictures as we continue to explore ski areas of the Southwest since I know these aren't the most common places for people to visit on this forum by any means.

-Craig

Wolf Creek 1.jpg

Wolf Creek 2.jpg

Wolf Creek 3.jpg

Wolf Creek 4.jpg

Wolf Creek 5.jpg

Wolf Creek 6.jpg
 
I'm too lazy to search, but I remember Tony classifying Phoenix as a better location than most EC cities for skiers. Not trying to turn this into an E/W food fight, but with AZ Snowbowl at 2.5 hours and Sunrise at 3.5 (both very volatile snow-wise), the next choices are eight hours to Durango and nine hours to Taos (add another half hour to reach the ski areas).

How does that result in a better ski life? You might as well fly.
 
Advice for cweinman in his new location:
I wasn't that impressed with Purgatory either, but I didn't know it was so crowd sensitive. Telluride is the most favored overall destination for Phoenix skiers within long weekend drive distance. During my first trip there I noticed how many of the people in town were from Arizona. And remember, you have ChrisC as an insider local resource there. I could also mention that Mammoth is probably about the same drive distance as Wolf Creek. If you check my report from last weekend, you'll see that unlike Purgatory it has the capacity to handle holiday crowds. And the drive to Mammoth is through Vegas and Death Valley, while the Colorado trek is a potential marathon if weather is bad.

Snowbowl is a more interesting mountain than Purgatory IMHO. It bears some comparison to Mt. Baldy. It's about the same size, not quite as steep overall but still challenging, better snow record due to higher altitude. But with just that one conventional triple serving ~80% of terrain it has to be very sensitive to peak weekend/holiday crowds.

With regard to Phoenix vs. the East I said:
1) Not as good as anything north of NYC
2) Better than MASH

With regard to NYC metro I said it was a close call. It would depend on whether the location within NYC metro was good like james's. It's also possible that Southwest flights to SLC from Phoenix might be frequent and cheap enough to add some value there. But I also agree with rfarren's point that if you have to get in an airplane to go skiing NYC is well positioned in terms of options and price competition.

My "where to live" exercise only considers drive distance. If you're going for a whole week, anything in Utah, the Sierra and much of Colorado is doable from Phoenix IMHO.
 
Tony Crocker":1ismo63d said:
With regard to Phoenix vs. the East I said:
1) Not as good as anything north of NYC
2) Better than MASH

With regard to NYC metro I said it was a close call. It would depend on whether the location within NYC metro was good like james's. It's also possible that Southwest flights to SLC from Phoenix might be frequent and cheap enough to add some value there.

I would imagine NYC metro is better. I live in Brooklyn and Gore and southern VT resorts are still only about 3 to 3 1/2 hours away. That Catskills are at least an hour closer. If I want to fly to SLC (the flight may be 3 hours and 45 minutes but...) because of the time change I arrive around 9:30 SLC time, and I get to ski that day. In Phoenix the earliest flights probably still arrive around 9:00. I don't see it as so advantageous to be based in Phoenix.
 
rfarren":30jxz70w said:
Tony Crocker":30jxz70w said:
With regard to Phoenix vs. the East I said:
1) Not as good as anything north of NYC
2) Better than MASH

With regard to NYC metro I said it was a close call. It would depend on whether the location within NYC metro was good like james's. It's also possible that Southwest flights to SLC from Phoenix might be frequent and cheap enough to add some value there.

I would imagine NYC metro is better. I live in Brooklyn and Gore and southern VT resorts are still only about 3 to 3 1/2 hours away. That Catskills are at least an hour closer. If I want to fly to SLC (the flight may be 3 hours and 45 minutes but...) because of the time change I arrive around 9:30 SLC time, and I get to ski that day. In Phoenix the earliest flights probably still arrive around 9:00. I don't see it as so advantageous to be based in Phoenix.

I think NYC metro really depends on your car situation too. If you live in the city you're paying a lot of $'s to park your car or paying up to rent (which I don't think is all that cheap on the weekends in NYC). I basically agree with Tony in that it's a tough call since for me, 8hrs in a car for a weekend is not reasonable (although I've done Philly to VT for a 3 day weekend). I think the real advantage is that PHX to SLC is a short cheap flight compared to NYC where the flight may not be too expensive but you're either getting on a 5pm flight or the redeye. Either way you get in late and it's a pretty brutal weekend (ask my friends I ski with, they seem to be miserable every monday after we ski).
 
rfarren":ieqytj6i said:
I would imagine NYC metro is better. I live in Brooklyn and Gore and southern VT resorts are still only about 3 to 3 1/2 hours away. That Catskills are at least an hour closer. If I want to fly to SLC (the flight may be 3 hours and 45 minutes but...) because of the time change I arrive around 9:30 SLC time, and I get to ski that day. In Phoenix the earliest flights probably still arrive around 9:00. I don't see it as so advantageous to be based in Phoenix.
This is where it turns on personal circumstances. If you do mostly one and two day trips NYC is better [usually: in a year when Snowbowl gets 400 inches you might have different view]. If you can get away for a week a couple of times a season you can choose among many of the elite western resorts from Phoenix without having to get on an airplane. That has to count for something.
 
Tony Crocker":3unxeq5l said:
If you can get away for a week a couple of times a season you can choose among many of the elite western resorts from Phoenix without having to get on an airplane. That has to count for something.

An 8 hour drive is too long regardless for me. I think somewhere around 5 hours is the cuttoff. For example, I won't drive to Mont Tremblant, and because of that I most likely won't ski there. The exception to the rule is: one day maybe just one day I'll hit the gaspesie peninsula.
socal":3unxeq5l said:
I think NYC metro really depends on your car situation too. If you live in the city you're paying a lot of $'s to park your car or paying up to rent (which I don't think is all that cheap on the weekends in NYC).

If you live in Brooklyn you're parking your car on the street. I don't think too many people park their cars in garages and have monthly rents. If they do, they're loaded and can well afford either the airfare, and the expense of parking.
socal":3unxeq5l said:
I think the real advantage is that PHX to SLC is a short cheap flight compared to NYC where the flight may not be too expensive but you're either getting on a 5pm flight or the redeye. Either way you get in late and it's a pretty brutal weekend (ask my friends I ski with, they seem to be miserable every monday after we ski).

I assume you're talking about the return flight.
 
Another intangible in the equation is whether you consider places like Gore or So. Vt (or anywhere in VT) worth the hassle. For me, after living 20+ years on the east coast I just don't think it is unless you are an hr or so away and can do a day trip. :dead horse:
 
To follow up to some of the discussion here after my report. Moving to Phoenix had more to do with where I could get a job as a doctoral RCG in a specialized engineering field; not planning my life around skiing :-) . I almost landed a position in SLC which would have been a dream come true, but Phoenix was still better than somewhere like Texas, the midwest, or quite frankly, most of the Mid Atlantic/Southeast.

When I was in Ithaca, it was about 6 hours to get into Northern Vermont. Gore and Southern Vermont were about 3.5 to 4 hours. The big thing I appreciate about being out here versus the east is the lack of weather volatility in terms of the spectre of rain and ice. I got burned a few times even when booking a trip maybe a week in advance in the east, which on a graduate student salary was truly a depressing. Now, I can just look at how the weather patterns are setting up in combination with the bases and probably have a pretty good idea of how coverage and conditions will be even a few weeks out.

I grew up in the NYC northern suburbs and think if all you care about is days on the snow, this may beat Phoenix. If you care about getting the most of limited days (the situation my wife and I are really in now), Phoenix still works out pretty well. We like driving more than flying personally, appreciating the freedom to just throw a ton of stuff in our truck and head out. Along those lines, we're planning a ten day trip to either Jackson, SLC, or Tahoe later this year to hit up a few different ski areas in early February. We'll just make a call on it a few weeks ahead of time based on conditions and weather at that time. Big thing here for us too is that we pay about the same for a three bedroom house on the edge of Tonto National Forest (largest National Forest in the US) with awesome single track mountain biking less than a mile away, as we would for a studio apartment in NYC. This leaves quite a bit more disposable income to go chase these crazy trips with quite frankly :-k .

Tony, we'll be checking Mammoth out likely in early April for some spring skiing. I am looking forward to it. Distance wise I'm thinking it'll be about 10 hours versus probably 8 to 9 for Colorado. You are correct on the marathon drive though, as the run up there, especially once it got dark and we were on US491 in the Navajo Reservation with pretty heavy snow got quite dicey. Telluride we're saving for doing another long weekend. It may become our choice destination if it has snow versus Wolf Creek, but it seems like for early season, Wolf Creek may often be the way to go for guaranteed coverage and snow conditions. I'm looking forward to checking out Snowbowl in mid January and am planning on it being a circus, so it may not be quite as disappointing as Purgatory. The anticipated expansion coming there with snow making and what not should really help the place I think, and I have been up to the top of Humphrey's already, so I did get a look at the ski area before it had snow, and the terrain indeed looked pretty nifty at the top.
 
socal":2olhizi1 said:
Another intangible in the equation is whether you consider places like Gore or So. Vt (or anywhere in VT) worth the hassle. For me, after living 20+ years on the east coast I just don't think it is unless you are an hr or so away and can do a day trip. :dead horse:

This was the way we were getting the last two years of so we were in Ithaca. Unless conditions looked absolutely awesome, it just wasn't worth the activation energy (and the gas and lift tickets quite frankly) to get out and go for epic day trips with 2 to 3 hour drives each way. Now, quite frankly I can drive to almost anywhere in the west if I'm going to take an extended trip (basically 4 weekend days plus a week for a nine days total) and go where the snow is. Between Tahoe/Mammoth, SLC, Colorado, and throwing in Wyoming, Montana, and Taos along with other NM areas, the choices are almost limitless.

Yes, if I want to day trip, I'm pretty limited now, but if we end up liking Snow Bowl, we may do some of the drive up Saturday morning or Friday night and stay through Sunday night sort of trips with a day of downhill combined with a day of nordic or other activities near Flagstaff. Not being 100% focused on skiing for trips definitely helps with this though!

-Craig
 
rfarren":30asebjq said:
For example, I won't drive to Mont Tremblant
If LCC was at the other end of that drive and you had a whole week, I think you would. You've made my point by your comment about the Gaspesie. If the increase in quality is that large, spending one full day driving on each end of a ski week is perfectly viable. Especially with families where the cost saving vs. flying is huge and you have your own vehicle while you're there. I've done it several times from L.A. and will be doing it most years from now on for my Iron Blosam week just because of all the wine I haul up there.
cweinman":30asebjq said:
We'll just make a call on it a few weeks ahead of time based on conditions and weather at that time.
Another key advantage of drive vs. fly.

I'm not arguing this point at all for the short trips. I have known people who make the LA-SLC run on short notice to catch powder, but it takes more endurance than most people have.

Telluride we're saving for doing another long weekend. It may become our choice destination if it has snow versus Wolf Creek, but it seems like for early season, Wolf Creek may often be the way to go for guaranteed coverage and snow conditions.
Telluride is a much better mountain than Wolf Creek. Usually a better call (and somewhat closer for you I think) by sometime in January. This year it's already better after that late December storm ChrisC wrote up. Your plans for February and April are exactly right IMHO.
 
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When you see NFL jackets and jeans, you know you're in a long (and the wrong) liftline! :-D

cweinman":1vdjzmpl said:
we'll be checking Mammoth out likely in early April for some spring skiing. I am looking forward to it. Distance wise I'm thinking it'll be about 10 hours versus probably 8 to 9 for Colorado.

May I suggest Mt Bachelor? You can fly direct from Phoenix to Redmond/Bend Airport for $92 round trip (flights on Fridays and Mondays). It's on Allegiant Airlines, low budget for sure, but think of the time and gas savings. Plus you can bring your clubs (or bike clothes, shorts, running shoes, etc.). Mammoth is great in the springtime, believe me I lived there for decades, but Bachelor/Bend have more to offer the spring skiing vacationer.
 
You can fly direct from Phoenix to Redmond/Bend Airport for $92 round trip (flights on Fridays and Mondays).
That's an incredible deal. I can't believe it will last long, so cweinman should consider grabbing it soon. Does Allegiant fly Bend to anywhere in SoCal?
 
Interesting airline that (like many of the newer carriers) does away with the hub-and-spoke system and serves a lot of offbeat routes.
:-s
Some would say that's the future of the airline industry in the U.S. I wonder how they're doing. That's an amazing fare from Phoenix to Bend.
 
tony Crocker":z103vruz said:
Does Allegiant fly Bend to anywhere in SoCal?

Allegiant only flies to Vegas and Phoenix from Redmond/Bend. But the fares are always super cheap. You could conceivably go LAX/Vegas/Bend for less than the normal Horizon LAX/Bend fare. But time is always the bottom line, unless you're retired.

Interestingly, Alaska/Horizon now flies direct from Portland to Mammoth/Yosemite airport. I can get to PDX in 30 minutes and make the connection. Mammoth is a grueling 11-12 hour drive from here through Reno and Carson City slow-and-go traffic. That's on a day there is no snowstorm going south on US 395. It's kinda crazy for me to go to Mammoth since both ski areas have so much in common. But there is a reason people have suntans down there. And they have things called "sun decks". You can probably guess what I mean.
 
schubwa":26nvqw2n said:
Interestingly, Alaska/Horizon now flies direct from Portland to Mammoth/Yosemite airport. I can get to PDX in 30 minutes and make the connection. Mammoth is a grueling 11-12 hour drive from here through Reno and Carson City slow-and-go traffic. That's on a day there is no snowstorm going south on US 395. It's kinda crazy for me to go to Mammoth since both ski areas have so much in common. But there is a reason people have suntans down there. And they have things called "sun decks". You can probably guess what I mean.

The new Mammoth flights are tantalizing, but a little frustrating. It's now super cheap from the Bay Area to travel to Mammoth (via San Jose), but you lose an entire day on both ends since the arrival time is around noon in both directions. A 55 minute flight ends up chewing up a day of skiing (and a day at work on the way back). It's really unfortunate, and pretty much makes the flights worthless (at least to me).

Otherwise, the Bay Area is quite well situated for skiers. 3 international airports - all of which have direct SLC and Denver flights (and direct to Vancouver from SFO). A little less than 2 hours (and ~$200 in advance) and you're in SLC - same day (full day) skiing is very possible. And with SouthWest, you can hit powder dumps in Utah at the last second at a set price (less than $400), assuming there are seats. I can usually be on the slopes in SLC in about the same time it takes to get to Tahoe...

We used to do day trips to Kirkwood or Sugar Bowl (3.5 hour drives, though we could get it down to 3 hours under ideal conditions and with a radar detector), but I have 2 young daughters now and the day trips now are to Dodge Ridge or Bear Valley (quite a bit closer and much better road conditions). Both resorts are relatively small, but each has some decent terrain and each gets a handful of high-quality powder days per year (you just have to be on your toes).

Nothing like living in the Salt Lake Valley (skiing-wise) - it's just a different calculus. Nowadays I'm happy with a set # of strategic powder days, a pre-scheduled destination trip or two (which may or may not have good conditions), and trips teaching the older kid how to ski. Definitely different than getting on the ski bus every weekend when I was a teenager in Utah, but it's all good...
 
schubwa":1ajdrehj said:
When you see NFL jackets and jeans, you know you're in a long (and the wrong) liftline! :-D

cweinman":1ajdrehj said:
we'll be checking Mammoth out likely in early April for some spring skiing. I am looking forward to it. Distance wise I'm thinking it'll be about 10 hours versus probably 8 to 9 for Colorado.

May I suggest Mt Bachelor? You can fly direct from Phoenix to Redmond/Bend Airport for $92 round trip (flights on Fridays and Mondays). It's on Allegiant Airlines, low budget for sure, but think of the time and gas savings. Plus you can bring your clubs (or bike clothes, shorts, running shoes, etc.). Mammoth is great in the springtime, believe me I lived there for decades, but Bachelor/Bend have more to offer the spring skiing vacationer.

Schubwa,

I'd consider Bachelor. We'll be going to Vegas for a personal obligation April 10 though and then need to head to LA April 17, so it seems like a perfect idea to just try to take the week off and hit Mammoth with a detour in between. I've actually heard good things about flying Allegiant if the connections make sense; the woman my wife and I go to down here to get her hair done flew from Mesa-Gateway (which actually is only about 15 minutes from where I live in the east valley here) up to Oregon and couldn't say enough about how easy and cheap it was.

I guess maybe next year!

-Craig
 
You will rarely be disappointed at Mammoth April 10-17. I'd still be tempted by that Bachelor deal if I thought it was a one shot that might go away though. Worth it even for a weekend.
 
Nice pics and report! For what it is worth I flew Alligent from Fort Collins to Vegas a couple of times and had no problems. When you feel more comfortable hit up telluride and Silverton.
 
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