Western Openings 2023

[EMSC]

With the very cold temps and snow now coming across the country I would not be surprised to see some openings in various western and mid-west states shortly.

For Colorado, A-Basin has announced Sunday Oct 29th for opening: Al's Blog
No way Loveland will open by then. They have a fairly long way to go and are probably less than half way in their effort.
Keystone - Unclear. They have most of their web cams turned off so you can't get a sense of their efforts so far.

My best Killington guess for back east, given their forecast, is that they open on ~6-12" base by ~Wed Nov 1st as the cold moves across the country.

Anyone know of other announcements?

 

[ChrisC]

With the very cold temps and snow now coming across the country I would not be surprised to see some openings in various western and mid-west states shortly.

For Colorado, A-Basin has announced Sunday Oct 29th for opening: Al's Blog
No way Loveland will open by then. They have a fairly long way to go and are probably less than half way in their effort.
Keystone - Unclear. They have most of their web cams turned off so you can't get a sense of their efforts so far.

What has happened to Loveland?

ABasin used to have NO snowmaking and just waited for accumulation. Assume a newer system helps them.

Why can't Loveland knock out a WROD in a similar time frame? Are they warmer? Run slightly longer?

Don't understand.

And Vail which no longer really has an early resort anymore. Why can't they just blast an upper mountain intermediate run and run the Montezuma lift - with perhaps Gondola access?

 

[EMSC]

Why can't Loveland knock out a WROD in a similar time frame? Are they warmer? Run slightly longer?

I see three reasons for Loveland's 'failures' to compete. 1) They also blow snow down at Valley side to sell lane space to racers (splits efforts, water supply, etc...), 2) I believe they stopped bringing in the elite NZ snowmaking crew, 3) They insist on opening a much longer green capable run first; which dramatically increases the acres they have to cover. Despite that there are essentially no green skiers at Loveland in the first weeks. They could probably cut by more than 1/3 the acreage needed if they changed opening trail.

Vail which no longer really has an early resort anymore.

Keystone is Vail's early resort. They will be open soon I'm sure (probably before Loveland). They have spent a ton of $$ on snowmaking to be able to do it and they do run the upper mtn first (up/down load Gondola). But it's a fairly long green trail they choose first due to the lower skier level you see in the Epic Pass world (as well as slowing people down due to the crowding).

 

[Tony Crocker]

Vail which no longer really has an early resort anymore.

Vail has responded to losing A-Basin from the Epic Pass. Keystone opening days the past 4 seasons: Oct. 12, Nov. 6, Oct. 23, Oct. 28. The 5 seasons before that had opening dates ranging from Nov. 6 - Nov. 18

Similarly, Breckenridge closing dates in 2019 and the last 3 years: May 27, May 23, May 15, May 21. The 4 seasons before that had closing dates ranging from Apr. 19 - Apr. 24.

ABasin used to have NO snowmaking and just waited for accumulation. Assume a newer system helps them.

A-Basin still has limited water. They get open in October but can't open more than 5% or so without natural snow.

Why can't Loveland knock out a WROD in a similar time frame? Are they warmer? Run slightly longer?

EMSC filled in those details. I met that NZ snowmaking crew at Coronet Peak in 2006. I assume Loveland's water supply is limited also, because Loveland and A-Basin both have some of the slowest track records in the West for getting even half their terrain open.

From OpenSnow Montana:

Cold temps have allowed Great Divide [19-24 inches new Oct. 24-27] to fire up the snow guns. Conditions look prime for blowing snow through the weekend and into midday on Monday 10/30. Stay tuned for a possible early opening at Great Divide.

Great Divide opened for Halloween in 2020 but was not able to stay open. We saw the place for the first time last March. It has mostly intermediate pitch which should mean less coverage needed, but that also means long runs from its main lift needing at least as much acreage to cover as Loveland.

 

[EMSC]

Worse than Disney?

11 inches of fresh on one trail.

 

[ChrisC]

Worse than Disney?
View attachment 37814

11 inches of fresh on one trail.

Looks fun!

 

[ChrisC]

Maybe an Ikon Pass road-trip to ski natural snow soon….

 

[EMSC]

Epic Pass

??

Aspen is very Ikon. Or at least Full Ikon (no no Ikon base pass allowed). I can't recall Aspen ever opening early though. Too far from the masses.

Anywhere from 4-10" on the flatlands for those counting. ~14" at Eldora and of course basically everywhere is blowing snow.

 

[Tony Crocker]

This weekend's storm along I-70 was quite substantial: 1-2 feet. Whether this will accelerate opening of terrain remains to be seen. Past history says no unless it continues to snow over the next couple of weeks.

A-Basin's Oct. 29 opening is the latest since 2015 aside from a likely COVID delay to Nov. 9 in 2020. There is no hint of opening on Keystone or Loveland webpages yet.

There is no hint of opening on Killington, Sunday River or Mont St. Sauveur webpages either. Patrick may be in New Jersey for the third consecutive month.

 

[ChrisC]

??

Aspen is very Ikon. Or at least Full Ikon (no no Ikon base pass allowed). I can't recall Aspen ever opening early though. Too far from the masses.

Anywhere from 4-10" on the flatlands for those counting. ~14" at Eldora and of course basically everywhere is blowing snow.

Oops… not paying attention. Out for the day.

 

[EMSC]

There is no hint of opening on Keystone or Loveland webpages yet

Not a surprise. Loveland has a long way to go. My sons racer lane space just got pulled for next weekend already. Keystone will likely be 2nd, but cannot get any sense of when with no webcams.

There is no hint of opening on Killington, Sunday River or Mont St. Sauveur webpages either.

Not a surprise. They haven't even started making snow yet. Chance it gets cold enough tonight back east to start, but latest I saw indicates either a 1p Killington open on Wed or them just waiting till Thurs to open. Best guess on my part based on a sure to change forecast.

 

[EMSC]

Whether this will accelerate opening of terrain remains to be seen.

Doubtful. Temps back to the 60's on the flat lands by Thurs or Fri. Huge help for initial snowmaking (though 2 weeks late).

In fact N facing slopes could become very unstable for avalanches for the rest of the season with the sun so low but a long stretch of warming daytime highs.

 

[EMSC]

Turns out Copper is 2nd to open. Of course for racer chasers only... (up/download on the gondola with just Copperopolis trail open off Excelerator).

 

[tseeb]

From Keystone Resort FB: "Keystone will open for the season on Wednesday, Nov. 1! Party down 2+ miles of terrain on the Schoolmarm and Silver Spoon trails, with DJs, dancing, and donuts as the cherry on top!"

 

[ChrisC]

"Keystone will open for the season on Wednesday, Nov. 1! Party down 2+ miles of terrain on the Schoolmarm and Silver Spoon trails

More like sleep walk vs. ‘party down’ Schoolmarm.

 

[EMSC]

Nakiska. AB will open for the weekend. Looks like a solid ~1500 verts on essentially one run (with like 8 different trail names).

Pretty early for Canada, really. Never understood why they never seem to open nearly as early up north. With Calgary or Edmonton or etc.. . I'd think there ought to be solid demand for an early open ski area similar to Colo and the North-ness ought to overcome altitude advantage of Colo...

Or maybe the winter is so long that the locals aren't really interested at first?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Never understood why they never seem to open nearly as early up north.

Actually Lake Louise fairly consistently opens about a week into November. I wonder if that will change with Lake Louise not hosting FIS races this season, though Norquay has one. Sunshine has had only 11 inches in October.

FYI Copper Mt. is hosting multiple events in late November and early December in addition to the Beaver Creek events. In the Northeast Tremblant, Sugarloaf and Sunday River are hosting FIS as well as Killington.

In October there were FIS slalom events indoors at SNO Oslo, Dubai and Snow Arena in Lithuania.

Or maybe the winter is so long that the locals aren't really interested at first?

That's the reason for a lot of ski area April closures when local weather is getting warmer. November weather in most ski regions is dreary, so I've presumed that's a key reason for more demand for the early season WROD than the conspicuously superior skiing in April/May.

SoCal has an anomalous climate in this regard. On average October is warmer than June and November and April are about the same. And in all of the Pacific States mountain storms in November are more likely to have a high rain/snow line than in April. Next week in the PNW is a forecast example.

In the Northeast November and April both have very high rain vs. snow incidence but April is worse.

 

[EMSC]

Winter Park opening on Friday, though I would highly recommend not bothering. Traditionally it opens with far worse terrain than ABasin, Keystone, etc... So unless something has changed, WP won't be worth it for weeks to come.

Eldora looks very close to having 2 trails on the frontside fully covered based on webcams this morning. Will be very interesting to see if they bump opening by a few weeks too (far too crowded if they do, so I won't be there).

 

[ChrisC]

So is A-Basin out of water already?

They are refilling their reservoir. Isn’t low flow season (Fall/Winter) the worst time for snowmaking withdrawals? Suprised it's allowed. (The Vermont resorts got slammed for this a few years ago).

Not sure what A-Basins permits look like.

 

[EMSC]

So is A-Basin out of water already?

Not sure what A-Basins permits look like.

Abasin is last in line given they just acquired water rights in the 2000's. Their rights are also very small. They get to take a small amount of CFS out of the Snake river (more like a decent sized creek really) down right near Keystone. I forget how much, but it's not a lot and certainly not enough for continuous snowmaking on even a few guns. If I recall it's usually at least several days to refill.

They pump that water all the way up the mtn to a modest reservoir next to the Pali lift. The reservoir holds roughly just enough for one trail worth of snowmaking. So, easy to get WROD open (reservoir is full in the fall already), but very slow after that to get additional terrain open. Ironically, the warming weather later this week will help; with snowmelt increasing the river flows down by Keystone.

Usually they get a 2nd trail off BMX lift open though before heading up top.

Most people don't notice the big gaps in trail openings since snowmaking usually occurs over a longer period of mostly night times in Oct (can at least partly refill during day times). So with warm days/cold nights people expect slow openings that time of year.

Also, Abasin only has snowmaking on ~6 actual trails (a few more trail names).