Where to in early April?

[johnnash]

Hi, All:

We're planning a trip April 7-12. For various reasons, we haven't yet bought tix, but we'll probably do so in the next day or so, or else we'll be inside the airlines' 2-week window. We had a great spring trip to SLC last year, but given the recent warm weather there, my current thinking is that Summit County is probably a better bet this year. Looks to me like the Sierra (incl. Mammoth) has also been very warm recenty. From DC, Denver is also about $100 (and a few hours flight time) cheaper than Mammoth via Reno, and also cheaper than SLC (although not as much difference as Reno). But if anyone has some info that would help with the decision, please let me know.

Thanks very much!

 

[ChrisC]

I suspect no matter what advice is offered - your will choose Denver for cost reasons. Tis the season.

For example, East Wall at A-Basin is still closed - staple expert trail. Breck is barely above 200" in total snowfall. Whatever for Summit Country.

I think Mammoth has some good conditions now - deep bases. Whistler seem to have rebounded. Utah - Canyons good, Park City/SnowBasin-slushy.

 

[ski-the-face]

mammoth is getting some fresh snow right now

 

[Admin]

mammoth is getting some fresh snow right now

Ours is about to start in mere moments. Looks unsettled and snowy all week.

 

[schubwa]

Although we're never on anybody's short list, the conditions here at Mt Bachelor in early April can be world class. Today we had another 3" overnight and have a 143" base (at the bottom of the area) with 436" so far this season. If the sun comes out, our corn rules. It may cost a little more to fly to Portland and then Redmond, OR but you do get what you pay for...oh, and do think about all the other stuff you can do after the lifts close.

 

[EMSC]

Tough call. Colo has been just as affected by the recent warm spell as Utah. This past weekend had mid-May like temps everywhere. But we're also expecting snow all week (unfortunately that's when the storms often fail to live up to the hype - at least here in Colo). Central Colo mtns do have enough snow: esp breck/copper/vail; less so a-basin, keystone, loveland (W vs E trend there). But surface conditions need a significant refresh for sure. Second Shubwa's call on Bachelor - if you're up for the extra travel $ and daily driving up to the mtn.

I'd wait as long as possible to pull the trigger - esp to see what happens this week.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I will make my usual recommendation for Mammoth or Bachelor in that time frame. Both have plenty of the skiing the Nash's like and are having big seasons vs. near average in Utah/Colorado. They have been to Mammoth, so if I were in their position I'd try Bachelor. You just have to suck it up on the logistics, but since it's a whole week, not really that big a deal.

I do not recommend Utah for the Nash's in that time frame. They are intermediate skiers and Park City is slop by then most years. LCC will grind them up over a whole week, as it did my friend Richard during my recent Iron Blosam week.

 

[Admin]

FYI yesterday's storm ended up with 28". Another big storm for Thursday and a third on tap for Sunday. No more meltdown going on here.

 

[Tony Crocker]

FYI yesterday's storm ended up with 28".

Yes, in LCC, double what was recorded anywhere else in Utah. This is a complete red herring to skiers like the Nash's. No one knows what the weather will be like April 7-12, and they need to book now. Park City's spring snow preservation is mediocre at best compared to Mammoth, Bachelor or Colorado's Summit County. And Richard's reaction to the week at Snowbird (which admin heard first-hand) is a good indicator for them. John is a somewhat stronger skier than Richard but his wife and son are probably not as good as Richard.

 

[socal]

FYI yesterday's storm ended up with 28". Another big storm for Thursday and a third on tap for Sunday. No more meltdown going on here.

Think it's worth a last minute weekend trip out? Looks like it'll be a little warmer on Saturday but cool all week. I assume most of the LCC terrain would be winter snow (except south facing) for the whole weekend?

 

[Tony Crocker]

I think it's a decent bet. The east and west facing stuff will transition to spring conditions if it's warm enough. But temps at the base of Alta are predicted below freezing all week and only mid-30's on the weekend. I'd guess over half winter conditions in LCC on the weekend after Thursday's storm even with no new snow after that.

 

[johnnash]

Although we're never on anybody's short list, the conditions here at Mt Bachelor in early April can be world class.

Actually, Schubwa, Bachelor has been on our short list for some time. Given Tony's strong endorsement and my subsequent investigation, it looks like a great place and sooner or later, we'll come out there. If we had the 10-day spring break that I had thought we were going to have this year, I'm pretty sure we would have gone to either Mammoth or Bachelor. But for various reasons (not interesting enough to go into here), we only have 4 days of skiing. :-({|= So, given the advantages in terms of logistics and economics, we're flying to Denver, as Chris predicted we would. I originally planned to base at Copper, until I started having trouble finding a condo, and then discovered that the USASA Nationals are taking place there during that week. So, rather than competing with the 10,000 spectators (!!!) they say they expect (not to mention the 1,600 competitors), we're basing at Winter Park, which is a place we've wanted to try out for a long time. Housing there is plentiful and cheap O

But, logistics and economics aside, I still don't think that Colorado is a completely unreasonable choice for spring this year. Other areas may have a higher base, but it seems to me that especially this time of year, surface conditions matter a lot more than base. And from what I can gather from weather websites, other areas (especially Mammoth) have had considerably warmer temps than the Summit Co. area in the recent past, and likely will have in the near future. So, I'm sure the powder from the current dump will be great while it lasts, but I wonder how long before there's another meltdown. (The SLC area of course isn't all that far from Colorado, so the temp differential couldn't be as substantial.) It looks like Winter Park isn't bad in terms of exposure for snow perservation, with half their slopes north facing, according to Tony's website. The trail map on the resort website doesn't have a compass rose, so I can't figure out which slopes do face north, but I guess I'll see that when I get there.

 

[Admin]

It looks like Winter Park isn't bad in terms of exposure for snow perservation, with half their slopes north facing, according to Tony's website. The trail map on the resort website doesn't have a compass rose, so I can't figure out which slopes do face north, but I guess I'll see that when I get there.

Topo maps and sat photos are your friends:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index. ... lay&pid=17

 

[Tony Crocker]

Temps reported from Mammoth are nearly always from the town of Mammoth Lakes, 900 feet lower than the Main Lodge and 3,000 lower than the top. There is also the Mammoth wind factor in sublimating snow and keeping the surface winter conditions. I have extensive experience warm weather skiing in both Mammoth and LCC and there is little question in my mind that the transition to spring conditions is usually faster in LCC.

Other areas may have a higher base, but it seems to me that especially this time of year, surface conditions matter a lot more than base.

Correct, especially to intermediate skiers.

The SLC area of course isn't all that far from Colorado, so the temp differential couldn't be as substantial

Not true by my experience. Altitude is a key driver. The highest of Utah, LCC, is about the same as Aspen and Vail. Summit County, Winter Park and Telluride are higher. Park City is lower plus has a lot of east-facing; that's why the usual spring conditions are worse than most of Colorado.

A lot of the advanced skier community looks down its nose at Summit County CO for its modest snowfall, low proportion of steep terrain and mid-season crowds. But in April Summit County looks much better relative to other areas than in early or mid-season. Crowds are less of an issue, all the terrain is open, snowfall is not too far off the winter months vs. half in many other places and surface conditions are often still winter.

I personally prefer Mammoth/Bachelor in this time frame, but unfortunately if you're flying in from the East you probably want a full week to compensate for the logistics.

 

[EMSC]

So, I'm sure the powder from the current dump will be great while it lasts, but I wonder how long before there's another meltdown. (The SLC area of course isn't all that far from Colorado, so the temp differential couldn't be as substantial.) It looks like Winter Park isn't bad in terms of exposure for snow preservation, with half their slopes north facing, according to Tony's website. The trail map on the resort website doesn't have a compass rose, so I can't figure out which slopes do face north, but I guess I'll see that when I get there.

WP has been a bit low in the current storm - a foot vs 1.5' in Summit areas (except A-Basin). Though with another significant dump expected Thurs/Fri this week and who knows after that. The big question on how it will last this time of year is dependent on if temps are more toward average or way above average like they were last week. If 'normal' April temps, the lower mtn will get mushy by afternoon, with upper mtn still winter snow (N facing stuff anyway). For that matter, if the very recent storm pattern continues (iffy this yr I'd guess), you can very well get a storm cycle. AKA keep following the weather, you might need to bring everything you own clothing wise - for both cold skiing and/or warm skiing. You just never know in April.

I'll be interested to see if some of the lifts are shut down during your time frame (such as pioneer express). Though I'd guess you'll love Parsenn Bowl since it's pretty mellow terrain for an upper mtn bowl (and you are, according to others, intermediates). Interesting choice. It's less easy to day trip out of there to other places for a day if you want, but not exactly a bad amount of travel to do so (unless actively snowing).

 

[Tony Crocker]

you might need to bring everything you own clothing wise - for both cold skiing and/or warm skiing.

Amen to that. One of Adam's spring break trips was to Summit County in 1997 and we had a couple of storms plus wind at A-Basin and Breck. John probably remembers that he had snow and wind on the April 2006 Mammoth trip too.

 

[johnnash]

I'd guess you'll love Parsenn Bowl since it's pretty mellow terrain for an upper mtn bowl (and you are, according to others, intermediates). Interesting choice. It's less easy to day trip out of there to other places for a day if you want, but not exactly a bad amount of travel to do so (unless actively snowing).

Yep, in looking at the trail map, I like Parsenn. I could use some advice on other areas. As noted, I'm an intermediate by FTOL standards -- and double blacks in the West are outside my comfort zone -- but on recent trips, I've been spending maybe half my time on blacks. Blacks like the ones off the Great Western or Eagle at Brighton and the Excelerator or Super Bee at Copper, for example, are fun. When I ventured into the territory off the Alpine and Resolution lifts in the last trip to Copper, the runs were do-able, but tough. Any advice on which areas at WP I should seek out or avoid?

We may try a trip to another resort for a day, but we plan to stay pretty much at WP. Partially that's because we're taking 3 boys, who like to come and go from the condo during the day. But I'd like to hit A-Basin one day -- or maybe Copper if that USASA crowd clears out by our last day (the 11th).

you might need to bring everything you own clothing wise - for both cold skiing and/or warm skiing.

Amen to that. One of Adam's spring break trips was to Summit County in 1997 and we had a couple of storms plus wind at A-Basin and Breck. John probably remembers that he had snow and wind on the April 2006 Mammoth trip too.

Yep, I hear ya. I just about froze that day at the top of the mountain on that Mammoth trip, but a couple of days later, I was sweating. This trip, I'm packing lots of layers and my jacket with zip-out liner and side vents!

 

[Tony Crocker]

I just about froze that day at the top of the mountain on that Mammoth trip, but a couple of days later, I was sweating.

John had the rare (pre-1982) old-school experience at the top of Mammoth. Since then Mammoth has used a winch cat on the Cornice to make it more accessible to intermediates, though it's still steep. But it snowed so much the week before John's trip that the natural Cornice reformed and John fell while dropping in from it, just as I did my first time back in 1978. I could kick myself for not taking a picture of the rare event but the wind was blowing so hard I didn't think about it at the time.

 

[ski-the-face]

i kind of wish they let the cornice stay and not groom it all the time. does anybody know if they always groom it now?

 

[EMSC]

I could use some advice on other areas.

Pioneer and olympia lifts though they have some long run-outs/travsering on the top to get to some of the runs (respectively). They face roughly N (As does Eskimo lift). A couple of trails each in other areas - Hughes, Cranmer, Sleeper, mary jane (the trail). Sunnyside lift could be good for you but you'll have to time it - it faces E/SE. Most of Mary Jane (the mtn/side of the area), is fairly steep bumps.

Not a lot of single diamond groomers - only a couple. More 'blue/black' groomers at WP. Hopefully the orientations above help with what faces what direction on the trail map.