Whistler is the BIG Winner thus far...

They are! Wolf Creek in Southern CO reported 30 inch from the previous storm (Fri thru sat) and I would guess that Silverton got it good as well. Looking good for the olympic base eh?
 
Yes indeed sir, a good base is must for the Olympics. However a whole lot of powder just before the games would likely not be the best scenario. Hard & icy makes for the best race courses and fastest times. There is ample time between now and then for just about anything to happen weather/conditions wise. Some long term forecasters are claiming that due to the current El Nino pattern, BC and the PNW in general will be mild with below normal precip leading up to the games. The Accuweather guy, Brett Anderson seems confident in this regard....http://www.accuweather.com/mt-news-blog ... g=anderson
Time will tell
 
Brett Anderson seems confident in this regard....
As people continue to make these ludicrous month-specific forecasts 4-5 months ahead ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) , I'm saving this one so we can analyze it at the end of the season. :brick:

El Nino can be viewed as a bias toward a more southern storm track or a split storm track as in 1991-92. Even in the monster El Nino years of 1982-83 and 1997-98 (strength 2.5 times what we have now) the expected storm tracks were in effect only 1/3 to 1/2 of the time. No question they were big storms, and season totals reflect the expected bias by region. But to predict this pattern for a specific week or month far ahead, sorry I'm not buying it. Then we get into the issue that some of these lower strength El Ninos don't even follow the expected pattern at all. The last one in 2006-07 was a 119% season in western Canada and a 65% season in California. And here we are now with near record snow in western Canada and less than a foot of Sierra snowfall so far in November.

The final point I'll make is that we skiers know that there are a lot of unique mountain microclimates. The Whistler alpine is one of those; it has a very consistent long term record and is not particularly sensitive to El Nino. I think the Olympic people would be delighted if it stopped snowing at Whistler now. There's already an ample base for the events, which they could easily maintain over the next 3 months. I'm sure they're more worried about having a week like this one. That's why Whistler's not on the World Cup circuit anymore; scheduled downhills the first week of December were snowed out all 3 times. The Olympics are more flexible; they can reschedule within a 2 week period, as they did frequently in Nagano in 1998.
 
Hey no arguements here Mr. C. - I think that long term forecasters are just blowing smoke up the collective asses of the masses anyway. I just wanted your input, thanks.
 
What happened to the PNW getting shafted due to El Nino?
I've discussed this before:
1) Whistler alpine microclimate shows minimal long term sensitivity to El Nino.
2) The moderate El Nino years do not validate as well as the stronger ones. The last one 3 years ago was 119% in western Canada and 65% in California.

Some of the weather geeks also mention the Pacific Decadal Oscillation http://jisao.washington.edu/pdo/, which tends to produce results somewhat like El Nino in its positive phase and more like la Nina in its negative phase. It was negative in the 1970's, postive most of the 1980's and 1990's and is likely on a negative trend now. The big El Ninos of 1982-83 and 1997-98 had PDO influencing weather in the same direction, which may not be the case in 2006-07 or now. FYI Whistler's November record before this year was 163 inches in 2006.
 
Tony Crocker":3lscgq0m said:
What happened to the PNW getting shafted due to El Nino?
I've discussed this before:
1) Whistler alpine microclimate shows minimal long term sensitivity to El Nino.
2) The moderate El Nino years do not validate as well as the stronger ones. The last one 3 years ago was 119% in western Canada and 65% in California.

Some of the weather geeks also mention the Pacific Decadal Oscillation http://jisao.washington.edu/pdo/, which tends to produce results somewhat like El Nino in its positive phase and more like la Nina in its negative phase. It was negative in the 1970's, postive most of the 1980's and 1990's and is likely on a negative trend now. The big El Ninos of 1982-83 and 1997-98 had PDO influencing weather in the same direction, which may not be the case in 2006-07 or now. FYI Whistler's November record before this year was 163 inches in 2006.

163" (414cm) is a whack o snow by any and all accounts for November anywhere. Actually not to put too fine a point on it Mr. C but, the official W/B website had claimed on the day the mark fell that the previous record was indeed 416cm in November. Now I am a stickler for details, but we are only talking 2cm (about 3/4") so we can call it a push. Excited as I and many others may be about all the ski-porn going on at present on Canada's left coast, it appears at least for now that the snow hose that has been spewing the white stuff all over the Coast Mountain range and to lesser degree in the interior, has begun to abate somewhat and I wonder, as I am want to do, just what is in store for the rest of the season. Will this be a record breaking winter or has the best and biggest come and gone? To date, W/B has received 530cm (~209") and some local accounts I've read claim that it was well into the New Year last season before anything like that was even approached. I can't specifically recall but I remember it being a tough year all around in BC

I looked back on the past "State of the Mountains" report posted on the usually excellent but not always frequently updated http://www.powderwatch.com to see what happened at W/B (and the rest of BC) after November 2006 and found that as of Dec 29th 2006, Powderwatch had reported W/B to have received 684cm and so had received 268-270cm in December of that year. So this year it would appear that the end of December mark from 2006 is well within range and really should be eclipsed in early December or at least by the month-end even if they should only receive 55-60% of what they got back in Dec 06. So I am wondering what W/B's standing record is at the end of December, end of January and so on and when they occurred. I imagine that you have these details, N'est pas?

My interest isn't purely accademic, I have not been to Whistler in many years, but watch it closely as I do my favourite Interior resorts. I go West most every year and sometimes twice. This year I am taking my sons (16 & 17) out at Christmas 12/25 - 01/04. I booked flights back in October, long before the current BC powder luv-in began. We will hit KHMR, then RMR, and then my favourite, Red (love Rossland town) and value then Castle if it gets some snow between now and then. For me (and for a few long-time ski pals from ON) those four are the full-meal-deal. Very special places indeed (when you hit the right conditions) without the hoards found at W/B. My boys were out there with me in Jan of 2005 when one of my Ski Pals and I took the whole team out. As luck would have it we landed in BC just as the BIG WET Pineapple express hit and washed away a ton of fun. We missed the goods by one week. Timing is everything. To get out of the slop and fog we had to head to Lake Louise so everybody could get some decent turns in. Back out I went with the Pals in March of that year. Another bust to say the least. We have had as much luck as not, I'd say overall its about 50/50.

This year looks promising, I have been in the game too long to make predictions or get over confident. I will continue to monitor many sources and seek many opinions and points of view. I have really enjoyed reading the posts on this site over the last few years and the sage wisdom found herein. See on the slopes, but just not at Alta :-s
 
Cumulative W/B snow records
November 207 and counting in 2009
December 272 in 2006
January 372 in 2006-07
February 498 in 1998-99
March 620 in 1998-99
Season 644 in 1998-99

Smart idea to hit the hard-to-get-to places like Kicking Horse, Revy and Red during Christmas "zoo week." Odds of decent coverage by Christmas (KH and Red need quite a bit) are surely higher than normal with the strong start in western Canada. Lots of driving with that itinerary, even with 10 days.

the BIG WET Pineapple express hit....To get out of the slop and fog we had to head to Lake Louise so everybody could get some decent turns in.
That happened to me too, same week just after that infamous storm. Best snow was actually the top 800 vertical of Kicking Horse, but of course most of the time you had to ski 3,000 of crap below that.
 
Smart idea to hit the hard-to-get-to places like Kicking Horse, Revy and Red during Christmas "zoo week." Odds of decent coverage by Christmas (KH and Red need quite a bit) are surely higher than normal with the strong start in western Canada. Lots of driving with that itinerary, even with 10 days.

Hey, I hear ya...it will be about 2000K round tip. But I've done the tour enough times that I could almost do it with my eyes closed. We land in Calgary Christmas morning @ 9:17 and will clear the Airport shortly after 10 and be on our way. If no problems are met a Kicking Horse pass we will arrive at KHMR in time to get the afternoon in on the Catamount chair to "warm up" and re-acquaint ourselves with our gear. Boxing day will be a full day at KH at the end of which we punch it for Revelstoke and do two more full days there. At the end of the 2nd day we press on to Rossland via the Upper Arrow Lakes Ferry route and then do the next 3 at Red (or 1 of the 3 at WW). Ring in the New Years with our Rossland friends and then if Castle is in good shape, drive there on New Years day and rip the shit out of it on the 2nd and 3rd. If Castle isn't good them we stay and rip Red for 2 more days or head back to Revy or KH. We catch the red eye back home at 12:50am Jan 4th, arriving back home (London ON) @ 06:17 - just in time for the Boys to head back to the start of school after the break. I will likely let them sleep that day though as they will be all done I'm sure...So if all goes according to plan, 2000km, 8.5 days on the slopes, many 10's of thousands feet of vertical, the company of family and friends old and new, lots of pictures, likely some video, and smiles enough to last until the next trip...Perfect!

And thanks for the W/B #s - man, you are the shit! (as my kids would say)
 
You have choice between Fernie and Castle the last 2 days. I like Castle better myself, but Fernie's odds of good coverage in early season are probably better. Best to play that by ear, as recent weather may determine which will be better. Revy to Red is a slow, tough drive.
 
Tony Crocker":1flvboxf said:
You have choice between Fernie and Castle the last 2 days. I like Castle better myself, but Fernie's odds of good coverage in early season are probably better. Best to play that by ear, as recent weather may determine which will be better. Revy to Red is a slow, tough drive.

Yup, Fernie is always the wildcard when we are on the tour. Was there for a wicked good week in March 98 on a Solo trip (same trip I discoverd RED - a story for another post). I wasn`t even serious about this stuff back then but went with the guideance of good buddy S'all Goodman. Went back with The Boys on the inagaural S'all Goodman Tour 1st week of March 2001 - a very poor year for snow. Almost broke my neck at the top of Lizard Bowl when they opened the meat-hook and we followed the few and migthy up the boot back to catch the only untracked in the Kooteneys that week. Bit off waaaay more than I could chew after after a poorly thought out pre-drop-in partaking of the sacrement with some local shred dudes - anyway, did the traverse skiers right, helped my buddy The Eagle retrieve a lost ski and then proceeded to take two or three high speed arch turns and launched off a small boulder disguised as a kicker. Mt intent was to get some air and land - well I went pretty far but shited the bed big-time and my excessive forward momentum caused me the land on my helmetless head and right shoulder - basically I did a forward 120...not good! felt a 10,000 volt electric shock from my brain into my right hand and then nothing. I blacked out and came to a few minutes later as my buddy S'all (who had been taking the shots of the failed attempt) was starting to climb up the slope to recover my corpse. Well, I did manage to sit up and get up on my board using only one wing, my right arm like so much overcooked spagetti, heel-slid down to my Pals and off the mountain. I rode the next day, avoided the meat-hook completely and didn't really have any fun. The next day we went to Rossland and I hooked up with Dr. Kurt the Chiro guy, a massage therapist, a hot tub, bags of ice, Rum, etc. Took the next day off as I had business to tend to at the local internet cafe (pre wifi days) in the Sacred Ride, and low and behold they had all their gear on sale due to the horrid year in the West. Everything was 50% off for cash, and 40% for credit card. Sent my emails and bought a lid. I was the first of my tour group to where a helmet...now they all do. Managed to get in the rest of the tour but the conditions were thin everywhere that year so my riding was un-inspired to say the least after the crash. The damage was stretched nerves in my shoulder, basically did not have much use of my right arm for about 3 months, and I'm right handed. Think about that for a second...everything you do with your dominate hand...everything!

Haven't been back since, I really do prefer Castle, it is a close second to Red on my favs list. But Now with the Revy & Horse option... both perfect bookends of the the powder pocket that is Rogers Pass, well the more southerly destinations have to be top shelf to get a second look....

Ride On!
Shanks
aka the Indian Sheppard
 
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